the inaugural post...drum roll please
11-03-2002, 04:52 PM
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the inaugural post...drum roll please
my PCA region holds rallies every so often and i havent attended one yet. my main question is: is speeding incouraged in these events? just curious....and someone has to start posting in here
11-08-2002, 01:47 PM
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Sauerkraut
I can’t speak for other regions, but I am quite positive that the approach to DE days or autocross would be the same in all regions. The goals at all driving events should be the same. Always drive within your limits and have fun in a safe controlled environment. The question of encouraging speeding is something I have never even heard discussed. Speed can definitely be part of the event but not speed for the sake of speed. As you start to learn the limits of your driving skills and of your car, speed will naturally increase.
I would avoid any group at an event that that is only there for the speed.
It’s driving skill, figuring out the correct line, what gear to be in a given position were and when to break.
Just my 2 cents worth
I can’t speak for other regions, but I am quite positive that the approach to DE days or autocross would be the same in all regions. The goals at all driving events should be the same. Always drive within your limits and have fun in a safe controlled environment. The question of encouraging speeding is something I have never even heard discussed. Speed can definitely be part of the event but not speed for the sake of speed. As you start to learn the limits of your driving skills and of your car, speed will naturally increase.
I would avoid any group at an event that that is only there for the speed.
It’s driving skill, figuring out the correct line, what gear to be in a given position were and when to break.
Just my 2 cents worth
11-09-2002, 07:48 AM
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i agree on the honing of skills at de's, autocross', and clinics but the rallies, as i understand it, are on public roads....pls correct me if im wrong, ive yet to attend one. thats where the speeding q is directed.
im very much looking forward to doing the other mentioned events, sounds like you learn alot while having alot of fun.
im very much looking forward to doing the other mentioned events, sounds like you learn alot while having alot of fun.
11-19-2002, 02:54 PM
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Hi Sauerkrout!
The rallys i'm familiar with... SCCA regional road rally program are what is called "T.S.D." (Time - Speed - Distance).
Its' essentially an exercise at being at the right place at the right time. I imagine that both SCCA and PCA TSD rallys are similar.
Contestants gather at the starting location.
Contestants (one driver and one navigator) register and the car has a rudimentary safety check... lights, horn, etc. (Helps keep our insurance carrier happy)
Each car is assigned a number, and that is the time that your car will start the event. If the rally starts at 1:00 ... car #17 will leave the starting point at 1:17.
A driver's meeting is held and the rally route instructions and general rules are handed out to the teams (usually 30 - 15 minutes prior to the first car out).
Cars line up in numerical order and leave the starting point at one minute intervals as directed by the starter crew.
Since this game is based on driving precise routing and driving at a precise speed, and the rallymaster knows at what time you should pass (since you're going a very specific speed) any given point along the course, you need to coordinate your odometer with that of the rallymaster. This is done during the odometer check. The odo check is usually the first ten miles of the event. Directions here are very straight forward. At the odo check you compare your mileage with that of the rallymaster and create a conversion factor that will allow you to match all mileage based notations and directions.
At a given time plus your car number you will leave the odometer check. The rally now begins.
SCCA measures every 100th of a mile and every 100th of a minute. The Rallymaster's goal is to lead you (via written directions and speed changes) through a challenging set of instructions, safely, to a final destination. Usually, you'll know where that is so you'll still be able to find it even if you get off course. The catch... At intervals along the route, unbeknownst to the teams, are checkpoints.
Teams are timed in at each checkpoint. Since the Rallymaster knows precisely when (if you've followed directions) you should be there...there is only one correct "in" time for each car. For each 100th of a minute you are late
OR EARLY!!! you get a point. Points are bad!!!
Each leg of a rally is timed independently of the others. A bad score on one does not affect any other leg. Leg scores are totaled at the end of the event to give scores for overall standings.
SoFla Region SCCA rallys usually ran about 100 miles and overall speed factored out to about 25-30 mph, and speeding is only needed if your skills in computation and logic are faulty. The type of car has no bearing on success. On the other hand, for those of us who occaisionally made an error...
The rallymaster will challenge you with instructions that will cause you navigation errors that will NOT get you lost, just get you off course and off time and should route you right in to a check point (control) just a wee bit early or late.
Sorry for length, but lunch time is over.
TSD rallys are really a lot of fun and quite challenging. You'll be competeing with people of similar skill levels. Seat of Pants, Equipped, Novice, etc.
Try it by all means... Don't take it too seriously and you'll have a grand time!!!
Jim formerly of TSCC <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
The rallys i'm familiar with... SCCA regional road rally program are what is called "T.S.D." (Time - Speed - Distance).
Its' essentially an exercise at being at the right place at the right time. I imagine that both SCCA and PCA TSD rallys are similar.
Contestants gather at the starting location.
Contestants (one driver and one navigator) register and the car has a rudimentary safety check... lights, horn, etc. (Helps keep our insurance carrier happy)
Each car is assigned a number, and that is the time that your car will start the event. If the rally starts at 1:00 ... car #17 will leave the starting point at 1:17.
A driver's meeting is held and the rally route instructions and general rules are handed out to the teams (usually 30 - 15 minutes prior to the first car out).
Cars line up in numerical order and leave the starting point at one minute intervals as directed by the starter crew.
Since this game is based on driving precise routing and driving at a precise speed, and the rallymaster knows at what time you should pass (since you're going a very specific speed) any given point along the course, you need to coordinate your odometer with that of the rallymaster. This is done during the odometer check. The odo check is usually the first ten miles of the event. Directions here are very straight forward. At the odo check you compare your mileage with that of the rallymaster and create a conversion factor that will allow you to match all mileage based notations and directions.
At a given time plus your car number you will leave the odometer check. The rally now begins.
SCCA measures every 100th of a mile and every 100th of a minute. The Rallymaster's goal is to lead you (via written directions and speed changes) through a challenging set of instructions, safely, to a final destination. Usually, you'll know where that is so you'll still be able to find it even if you get off course. The catch... At intervals along the route, unbeknownst to the teams, are checkpoints.
Teams are timed in at each checkpoint. Since the Rallymaster knows precisely when (if you've followed directions) you should be there...there is only one correct "in" time for each car. For each 100th of a minute you are late
OR EARLY!!! you get a point. Points are bad!!!
Each leg of a rally is timed independently of the others. A bad score on one does not affect any other leg. Leg scores are totaled at the end of the event to give scores for overall standings.
SoFla Region SCCA rallys usually ran about 100 miles and overall speed factored out to about 25-30 mph, and speeding is only needed if your skills in computation and logic are faulty. The type of car has no bearing on success. On the other hand, for those of us who occaisionally made an error...
The rallymaster will challenge you with instructions that will cause you navigation errors that will NOT get you lost, just get you off course and off time and should route you right in to a check point (control) just a wee bit early or late.
Sorry for length, but lunch time is over.
TSD rallys are really a lot of fun and quite challenging. You'll be competeing with people of similar skill levels. Seat of Pants, Equipped, Novice, etc.
Try it by all means... Don't take it too seriously and you'll have a grand time!!!
Jim formerly of TSCC <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
12-17-2002, 03:35 PM
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Jim posted a very good description of a TSD Rallye, and I just wanted to agree on the fun factor of this type of driving event.....it takes a combined effort of driver and navigator to be successful. An old saying goes: "The driver keeps you 'on time', and the navigator keeps you 'on course'". As Jim said, the object of a TSD Rallye is to complete the "legs" as close to the official time as possible, with penalty points assessed for being either early or late. Jim also touched on the different classes of competition.....in PCA events (particularly for Porsche Parades), there are generally 3 classes as follows:
Unequipped/SOP (Seat of Pants)..where the only allowable equipment items are simple timepieces (standard function stopwatches are ok), paper, and writing instruments;
Navigational..allowable equipment includes those for SOP class PLUS "prepared tables" and slide rules;
Equipped..all of above equipment PLUS rallye computers, separate independently-driven speedometers/odometers....basically anything you want to use (other than 2-way communications devices).
As a rule, an "equipped" car will win overall, with a total score, sometimes, lower than 15 points. However, don't count the other classes out of the running.....I can speak from experience here, as I've won the SOP class 2 years in a row, and 3 out of the last 4, with an overall finish as high as 3rd (and all with a different partner, and from both seats). Also, in my local PCA region (Chicago), my regular navigator and I just won our 4th consecutive overall Rallye award.
A word of caution/advice, though....don't expect to do well the first few times. I've been doing Rallyes for over 15 years, and it has been just the past 5 or 6 where I've come into my own (so to speak). But, it has been a very rewarding journey. If you have any additional questions, you can contact me directly at Lee@pmsales.com.
Unequipped/SOP (Seat of Pants)..where the only allowable equipment items are simple timepieces (standard function stopwatches are ok), paper, and writing instruments;
Navigational..allowable equipment includes those for SOP class PLUS "prepared tables" and slide rules;
Equipped..all of above equipment PLUS rallye computers, separate independently-driven speedometers/odometers....basically anything you want to use (other than 2-way communications devices).
As a rule, an "equipped" car will win overall, with a total score, sometimes, lower than 15 points. However, don't count the other classes out of the running.....I can speak from experience here, as I've won the SOP class 2 years in a row, and 3 out of the last 4, with an overall finish as high as 3rd (and all with a different partner, and from both seats). Also, in my local PCA region (Chicago), my regular navigator and I just won our 4th consecutive overall Rallye award.
A word of caution/advice, though....don't expect to do well the first few times. I've been doing Rallyes for over 15 years, and it has been just the past 5 or 6 where I've come into my own (so to speak). But, it has been a very rewarding journey. If you have any additional questions, you can contact me directly at Lee@pmsales.com.