New Paint Question (holograms and swirls)
04-30-2007, 01:55 PM
#1
Racer
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New Paint Question (holograms and swirls)
I had a body shop recently fix a collision, and they needed to paint the hood, bumper, and fenders of my 2000 996.
Its black, and they did some "rubbing" (his words ) on it to work the texture and stuff, and when its all done it looks very holographic and swirled.
The paint, according to the manufacturer of the paint system (BASF) will take 60 days to cure (at 70 degress, but i live in florida and its hot as hell here).
I obviously want this holographic stuff FIXED. I realize a competant detailer and do a multi-part polishing that will address this. I do not think my body shop is the right place to fix this.
1. should I address it now, or wait until the paint cures? I realize I cant wax, but as far as polishing just not sure when this should be remediated.
2. does anyone know a good detailer in south florida ( i live in west palm beach ) who can do this?
Its black, and they did some "rubbing" (his words ) on it to work the texture and stuff, and when its all done it looks very holographic and swirled.
The paint, according to the manufacturer of the paint system (BASF) will take 60 days to cure (at 70 degress, but i live in florida and its hot as hell here).
I obviously want this holographic stuff FIXED. I realize a competant detailer and do a multi-part polishing that will address this. I do not think my body shop is the right place to fix this.
1. should I address it now, or wait until the paint cures? I realize I cant wax, but as far as polishing just not sure when this should be remediated.
2. does anyone know a good detailer in south florida ( i live in west palm beach ) who can do this?
04-30-2007, 07:45 PM
#3
Racer
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Yes, I hope they do chime in. Its your classic hologram/swirl black car, just that I have new paint on, so at least I have that going for me. The "body shop" asked me to bring the car by to give them another shot wednesday, they have to fix some other stuff with the body kit anyways, and so I am letting them have 1 stab at fixing it.
04-30-2007, 07:47 PM
#4
Signal,
One thing often confused are painters from detailers. Painters goal is to provide a smooth, orange-peel free paint job. Even so, they often skip out on detail such as how many coats, proper clears, etc... I have never had a car come out of a paint shop without some form of detailing imperfection...so keep them seperate.
New paint rarely has a long setup period, but the clear does. Clears are typically thick and full of elasticisors to protect the underlying paint. In Florida especially the paint will take an exceptionally longer setup time as any good painter will add a ton of elasticisors and such to help with the sun. 60 days would be the minimum for me...as a detailer I wouldn't touch it.
As to the holograms and fine swirls (often refered to as spider webbing) are from the finishing process. The painter sprays the clear, then wetsands it, then polishes it out. They often stop at about 90% since like I said before they aren't detailers. You see the residual mess left over. The good news is that none of them are deep and will be very easy to remove. A non-abrasive polish would be more than enough to remove those. My reccomendation would be to get a good polish (I prefer Poorboys SSR1-2 for that type) and work it out. Otherwise find a detailer and let them go at it. They will probably try to sell you on much more service than you need being that its new paint, so try to be careful.
If the car was local I would clean it well, clay bar the entire car, a nice polish, a nice glaze, sealant, and then wax. It would take all of a day to do, but you won't regret it. If you have the time, several coats of sealant followed by a nice dark color specific wax (Pinnacle, Natty's Blue) will make the paint deep like you have never seen before.
PM me if you need any more help on products or how to take care of it.
Wes
One thing often confused are painters from detailers. Painters goal is to provide a smooth, orange-peel free paint job. Even so, they often skip out on detail such as how many coats, proper clears, etc... I have never had a car come out of a paint shop without some form of detailing imperfection...so keep them seperate.
New paint rarely has a long setup period, but the clear does. Clears are typically thick and full of elasticisors to protect the underlying paint. In Florida especially the paint will take an exceptionally longer setup time as any good painter will add a ton of elasticisors and such to help with the sun. 60 days would be the minimum for me...as a detailer I wouldn't touch it.
As to the holograms and fine swirls (often refered to as spider webbing) are from the finishing process. The painter sprays the clear, then wetsands it, then polishes it out. They often stop at about 90% since like I said before they aren't detailers. You see the residual mess left over. The good news is that none of them are deep and will be very easy to remove. A non-abrasive polish would be more than enough to remove those. My reccomendation would be to get a good polish (I prefer Poorboys SSR1-2 for that type) and work it out. Otherwise find a detailer and let them go at it. They will probably try to sell you on much more service than you need being that its new paint, so try to be careful.
If the car was local I would clean it well, clay bar the entire car, a nice polish, a nice glaze, sealant, and then wax. It would take all of a day to do, but you won't regret it. If you have the time, several coats of sealant followed by a nice dark color specific wax (Pinnacle, Natty's Blue) will make the paint deep like you have never seen before.
PM me if you need any more help on products or how to take care of it.
Wes
04-30-2007, 09:18 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
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Well I hope to add a few things and correct a few things.....and I hope to not offend anyone while doing so.
First your paint can be polished and waxed shortly after getting painted as todays paints cure a lot differently from yesteryears paints.....BUT....if you feel better not waxing it that's fine also as you can have it polished with no problem. It should be fairly easy also as the paint is fresh. The hard part is finding a competent detailer.
Secondly, a clear coat is in no way "thick" as suggested. Hold up a piece of paper or a plastic trash bag....the clear is about that "thick". Clears have UV absorbers in them to protect the dull underlying pigmented paint from fading. Plastic areas such as bumpers contain elastic properties.
Thirdly, ALL polishes are "abrasive" otherwise they would not be "polishing". Polishing is the act of abrading away at the surface to produce a rich shine. So the suggestion of "Poorboys SSR1 or 2" would be ABRASIVE polishes. There is nothing wrong with that because freshly painted panels are treated with abrasives by wet sanding and polishing.
Lastly, there is no such thing as a "color specific wax", as in one for reds and another for blacks, etc. There are dyed waxes but these are temporary "fillers" much like a glaze.
So get it polished (you can do this yourself also) and then have it waxed. It can be waxed now but if you feel better about it wait the desired time.
Anthony
First your paint can be polished and waxed shortly after getting painted as todays paints cure a lot differently from yesteryears paints.....BUT....if you feel better not waxing it that's fine also as you can have it polished with no problem. It should be fairly easy also as the paint is fresh. The hard part is finding a competent detailer.
Secondly, a clear coat is in no way "thick" as suggested. Hold up a piece of paper or a plastic trash bag....the clear is about that "thick". Clears have UV absorbers in them to protect the dull underlying pigmented paint from fading. Plastic areas such as bumpers contain elastic properties.
Thirdly, ALL polishes are "abrasive" otherwise they would not be "polishing". Polishing is the act of abrading away at the surface to produce a rich shine. So the suggestion of "Poorboys SSR1 or 2" would be ABRASIVE polishes. There is nothing wrong with that because freshly painted panels are treated with abrasives by wet sanding and polishing.
Lastly, there is no such thing as a "color specific wax", as in one for reds and another for blacks, etc. There are dyed waxes but these are temporary "fillers" much like a glaze.
So get it polished (you can do this yourself also) and then have it waxed. It can be waxed now but if you feel better about it wait the desired time.
Anthony
04-30-2007, 09:58 PM
#6
Anthony,
I guess I need to clarify myself. I figured if he was going to take it on himself he would be using over the counter products such as basic Megiuars and such. I classify my polishes in two catagories, abrasive and non-abrasive. I understand that the point of a polish is to remove a thin layer of paint or clear to remove the imperfections. I refer to these as abrasive polishes. I refer to swirl removers (which are typically non-abrasive and contain fills and oils) as non-abrasive. My customers don't care to know the difference between cutting compounds and finishing polishes, or sealants over waxes, etc... I figured the OP was going on the same basis.
Clearcoats are sprayed in different ways and in different levels of thickness. I worked with a painter for 3 months or so trying to get an idea of the trade. It was not a job for me, but he helped me to understand paint compounds and clearcoat application. In the summer months he applies a completely different clear than in the winter. Cheaper body shops use typically 1-2 coats of clear, while your higher end shops using high end DuPont and Glasurite paints may spray 5-7 base coats, and 3-5 clear coats. This is borderline too thick, but it shows the depth well. Also I need to amend my previous post...when I refered to elasticisors I was speaking of hardeners and reducers. That was my fault, sorry for the confusion. Elasticisors are used to make the paint more flexible such as Anthony said to help with plasic panels.
I do find that I use specific waxes for specific cars. Color specific refers to dark or light, which do exist. Same as with dark and light color specific polishes. On a beautiful black, red, or deep blue, I love to use Pinnacle Sovereign or Natty's Blue paste. While I don't understand the science of what makes them different, I can tell you that my results show differences. Neither leave an oily base like a cleaner OTC wax, and neither have any evident fillers. In my conversations with the Poorboys owners, they assured me that the wax was designed different than standard Natty's paste wax.
Story for the curing time - I was very skeptical about this as well. My current painter believes 100% that 24hrs after its sprayed you can do about anything to it. My previous 1988 M3 (car I started detailing myself) had two panels resprayed due to fading. The rest of the car had plenty of clear left so I used my original Home Depot 1000rpm automotive polisher with Mequiars Fine Cut (which is not known to be very abrasive). I purchased the Meqiuars detailing video and watched it religiously before starting. I followed the instructions word for word and on both of my two new panels I had burned through the clear which was evident by the silver paint on my pad. I brought my car back to the painter who informed me that 10 days after the paintwork it had still not cured. This was spring time, average 70 degrees. This was before I cared to ask, but now I am very **** retentive about touching recently painted cars. I will do it with no liability. I haven't had an incident since, but there is no way that you can tell me my random orbit 1000RPM polisher and FC burned through my paint. I have tried since my with PC at 6 and medium cut (merely as a show for a customer) and never made it through, holding in the same spot for nearly 5 minutes.
Wes
I guess I need to clarify myself. I figured if he was going to take it on himself he would be using over the counter products such as basic Megiuars and such. I classify my polishes in two catagories, abrasive and non-abrasive. I understand that the point of a polish is to remove a thin layer of paint or clear to remove the imperfections. I refer to these as abrasive polishes. I refer to swirl removers (which are typically non-abrasive and contain fills and oils) as non-abrasive. My customers don't care to know the difference between cutting compounds and finishing polishes, or sealants over waxes, etc... I figured the OP was going on the same basis.
Clearcoats are sprayed in different ways and in different levels of thickness. I worked with a painter for 3 months or so trying to get an idea of the trade. It was not a job for me, but he helped me to understand paint compounds and clearcoat application. In the summer months he applies a completely different clear than in the winter. Cheaper body shops use typically 1-2 coats of clear, while your higher end shops using high end DuPont and Glasurite paints may spray 5-7 base coats, and 3-5 clear coats. This is borderline too thick, but it shows the depth well. Also I need to amend my previous post...when I refered to elasticisors I was speaking of hardeners and reducers. That was my fault, sorry for the confusion. Elasticisors are used to make the paint more flexible such as Anthony said to help with plasic panels.
I do find that I use specific waxes for specific cars. Color specific refers to dark or light, which do exist. Same as with dark and light color specific polishes. On a beautiful black, red, or deep blue, I love to use Pinnacle Sovereign or Natty's Blue paste. While I don't understand the science of what makes them different, I can tell you that my results show differences. Neither leave an oily base like a cleaner OTC wax, and neither have any evident fillers. In my conversations with the Poorboys owners, they assured me that the wax was designed different than standard Natty's paste wax.
Story for the curing time - I was very skeptical about this as well. My current painter believes 100% that 24hrs after its sprayed you can do about anything to it. My previous 1988 M3 (car I started detailing myself) had two panels resprayed due to fading. The rest of the car had plenty of clear left so I used my original Home Depot 1000rpm automotive polisher with Mequiars Fine Cut (which is not known to be very abrasive). I purchased the Meqiuars detailing video and watched it religiously before starting. I followed the instructions word for word and on both of my two new panels I had burned through the clear which was evident by the silver paint on my pad. I brought my car back to the painter who informed me that 10 days after the paintwork it had still not cured. This was spring time, average 70 degrees. This was before I cared to ask, but now I am very **** retentive about touching recently painted cars. I will do it with no liability. I haven't had an incident since, but there is no way that you can tell me my random orbit 1000RPM polisher and FC burned through my paint. I have tried since my with PC at 6 and medium cut (merely as a show for a customer) and never made it through, holding in the same spot for nearly 5 minutes.
Wes
05-01-2007, 12:34 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Anthony Orosco
Well I hope to add a few things and correct a few things.....and I hope to not offend anyone while doing so.
First your paint can be polished and waxed shortly after getting painted as todays paints cure a lot differently from yesteryears paints.....BUT....if you feel better not waxing it that's fine also as you can have it polished with no problem. It should be fairly easy also as the paint is fresh. The hard part is finding a competent detailer.
Secondly, a clear coat is in no way "thick" as suggested. Hold up a piece of paper or a plastic trash bag....the clear is about that "thick". Clears have UV absorbers in them to protect the dull underlying pigmented paint from fading. Plastic areas such as bumpers contain elastic properties.
Thirdly, ALL polishes are "abrasive" otherwise they would not be "polishing". Polishing is the act of abrading away at the surface to produce a rich shine. So the suggestion of "Poorboys SSR1 or 2" would be ABRASIVE polishes. There is nothing wrong with that because freshly painted panels are treated with abrasives by wet sanding and polishing.
Lastly, there is no such thing as a "color specific wax", as in one for reds and another for blacks, etc. There are dyed waxes but these are temporary "fillers" much like a glaze.
So get it polished (you can do this yourself also) and then have it waxed. It can be waxed now but if you feel better about it wait the desired time.
Anthony
First your paint can be polished and waxed shortly after getting painted as todays paints cure a lot differently from yesteryears paints.....BUT....if you feel better not waxing it that's fine also as you can have it polished with no problem. It should be fairly easy also as the paint is fresh. The hard part is finding a competent detailer.
Secondly, a clear coat is in no way "thick" as suggested. Hold up a piece of paper or a plastic trash bag....the clear is about that "thick". Clears have UV absorbers in them to protect the dull underlying pigmented paint from fading. Plastic areas such as bumpers contain elastic properties.
Thirdly, ALL polishes are "abrasive" otherwise they would not be "polishing". Polishing is the act of abrading away at the surface to produce a rich shine. So the suggestion of "Poorboys SSR1 or 2" would be ABRASIVE polishes. There is nothing wrong with that because freshly painted panels are treated with abrasives by wet sanding and polishing.
Lastly, there is no such thing as a "color specific wax", as in one for reds and another for blacks, etc. There are dyed waxes but these are temporary "fillers" much like a glaze.
So get it polished (you can do this yourself also) and then have it waxed. It can be waxed now but if you feel better about it wait the desired time.
Anthony
