cobalt

I am new to the Concours world and have a few questions for those in the know.

How is ClearBra looked upon at a Concours?

I plan on showing my car in this years PCA NNJR Tryautothon and have quite a bit of Clear Bra product on this relatively new to me Porsche. Is it a total no no or is it accepted without any frowning if cleaned properly.

Also If it is accepted is there a way of cleaning it without dulling its finish?

Thanks

panzer grey

I would have to guess that a clear bra is a "no-no".

I am a newbie as well, but as I always understood it the goal of a concourser is to make the car as close to the way it looked coming off the assembly line as possible - including exact original model TIRES !

I am sure they have all different classes of competition.

I've always wondered if there was a class for "complete original" cars - meaning never repainted, original carpet, original everything outside of filters, plugs, and tires.

Heck, i've even seen cars touted on Barett-jackson auctions that have the ORIGINAL tires. ( not a "goal" that can even be obtained...it just has to be the state of the car )

Any concoursers out there ?

hoffman912

not a garage queen kinda guy, but i have several friends who are.

there is full concourse.. youre car has to be better than it came out of factory.. no ifs and s or buts, and they will check for dust even behind the dash.

there is wash and shine.. outside only. no trunk or engine, and sometimes no interior (but sometimes they do..)

there is another section inbetween the two.. not quite sure whats its called or what the details are (no pun intended)

rockitman

Is that true if you have aftermarket wheels and rubber in a full concours...you will be penalized??? What about a TE Rollbar and aftermarket cargraphic pedals??? Any other tips??? I am entering my GT3 in the Zone 1 Silver Anniversary concours, May 16th. Thanks

RJT

At the Porsche Club of America's "Parade" there are three divisions. Preservation, Restoration and Preparation. Within those divisions are two classes, Full Concours and Touring. In Full Concours, the entire car is judged including undercarriage. These cars are basically "lickable". They are unbelievably clean. Touring is the class for cars that are driven regurlarly, some even daily, but are still cleaned to an extreme level.
Peservation means the car is original and has not been restored. Restoration is just that, a car that has been completely restored , ground up. Preparation is a car that may not be original or not completely restored and might be modified to some extent. After market wheels or pedals does not qualify as being modified.
At local Zone Concours events, it's a liitle different. There is Full Concours, Street, and Wash & Shine classes. Depending on the number of cars, they will be divided into Air cooled, Water cooled, 356, early 911, boxsters, 944/968 etc.
A car with "clear-bra" and non-factory items such as a roll bar or billet aluminum pedals and after market wheels will definately be dinged a point or two versus the same car that is 100% stock. That doesn't mean you won't win, because the 100% stock car may not be as nice.
If this is your first shot at Concouring, try starting in Wash & Shine. The objective is to get your car cleaner than it's ever been. Then......clean it some more! Most judges will be constructive in their critcism and show you where you need to concentrate on for the next show.
The most important thing is to have fun. It can become addictive though.
We will be showing our 55 356 Continental in Full Concours/ Preparation this Summer at the Porsche Parade in Dallas. I will start cleaning in a few days, for the next two months! Pretty sick, huh?

rockitman

Thanks Robert...I will have the car up on jack stands this weekend to finish removal of the cosmoline. I will remove the wheels in order to clean the inside of them in addition to the wheel wells. How can they judge underneath??? My car is so low, it's not like they can get under it to really see the bottom of the car between the front and rear wheels. I will have to drive the car to the show, about 20 miles from me. I plan on bringing my california duster, water with cotton towels and my detail mist to finish things off. Sounds like a lot of work, none the less, a toil of pleasure...at least for me.

RJT

Rockitman,
You'll be surprised at how far a judge can squeeze under a car. If nothing more than his or her arm to reach behind the wheel to see if there is any dirt or grime. I cleaned and cleaned as far as I could reach and a very petite woman judged my car. She had very small hands and could stick her hands in places I couldn't go. She came up with some dirt and wiped in on the score sheet!
I am a certified Concours Judge and if I can give you one tip you might not think of..........Have a large towel to put down on the ground for the Judge to lay down on when he or she inspects the undercarriage. They will definately appreciate it, especially if the grass is a little wet. It might not keep you from getting a deduction but you never know.
And if you are going Full Concours, don't forget to clean the inside of the exhaust tips! Most people never think of cleaning there and a judge can always find some gunk inside. Another place people often miss is behind the license plate.

rockitman

Thanks Robert for the towel tip...I will do that....Sounds like disassembling the vehicle and cleaning each part might be in order!!! I am looking forward to getting down and personal with my GT3. What a great obsession to have... :-)

epbrown01

There was a 356 that ranked high at Pebble Beach a few years ago, and the owner turned the car over to professional detailers 3 months before the concourse. The shop cleaned the car for 6 hours/day, every week day, until the show. They pretty much removed nearly everything, cleaned it, and put it back. They also mentioned have a seat resewn because the stitches were crooked along one seam. The tab ran into the tens of thousands for this, and that's after the owner spent nearly 100 grand on restoring the car (it went straight from the resto shop to the detailer).
So yeah, it can get crazy.

I never think about doing that with my Porsches, but I'd love to get my 1966 Rolls-Royce in that kind of shape. Unfortunately, I'd have to give up all my other hobbies (eating, living in a house, wearing clothes, saving for retirement...)

Emanuel

Steve N.

Rockitman: I have very limited experience with this activity - just at the local club level a couple of times. I tend to opt for "display" class, which is something my PCA club has. Your car is not judged - but is eligible for awards like "Peoples Choice". Anyway, another tip about an area to clean - I was dinged for water spots on my cooling fan. Who would think about this unless it had been pointed out to you! Also my cap for the oil fill was on upside down. A No No! I would not think you would need to remove the cosmoline - it came on the car, right?

rockitman

2004 Zone 1 Concours:

I finished 2nd...It rained on the way to the competition(got some road dirt in the wheel wells and insides of wheels) and my car was the first one judged at 9:30 AM. If I had more time since the rain would have stopped I may of been able to get a perfect 300 points. I scored 297.3. The winner was a 993 MY98...That car was not judged until 1:00 PM and that person was able to prep the car all morning after the rained stopped. No matter, even if I got 300, I still would of lost...The 993 got .6 bonus points for mileage...winning score: 300.6

It was a good experience anyways and was fun to participate....

PS: Most of my cosmoline has been removed...There should be bonus points for that....

RJT

Congrats on your 2nd place finish!
297.3 out of 300 is a very good showing.
Being the first car judged is always bad news. A judge will usually go hard on the first car so to leave room for a car that might be better being judged later.
When I took the Concours Judges school, there were two Head Judges conducting the class. I asked a question........Do you judge a car strictly on its own merit, or do you judge a car against the other cars? The two guys disagreed and started arguing in front of the class! I went away from the class thinking it really should be a little of both. Sometimes you can stand back and clearly see that car A is first place and car B is second etc. without really inspecting them that closely. Other times it comes down to a tenth of a point to determine the true winner.
To score that high (297) in a car that is driven often is quite an accomplishment!

rockitman

Thanks Robert!!! Can't tell you how frustrating it was pulling out of the garage the morning of the competition to see it raining with wet roads for the 20 mile drive up. The car was perfect the evening before....It was a great experience and I learned a lot in addition to meeting some great people...

rockitman

In the heat of judging...

Type 2

We regularly show at the regional level of Concours. In 2018, at the PCA National Parade in Osage Beach, Mo , we showed Full (complete topside and underside) in Preparation Group II Full. If you are semi-serious about Concours (Concours d'Elegance), both at the National level (PCA Parade) and at the regional level, you must have some familiarity with the National Parade Competition Rules (PCRs).

As there may only be a few competition rule changes for an event in a particular year, i.e., in 2018 there were no significant changes to the PCRs for Concours de’Elegance, you may have to go back to the last major revision, say 2017, of the rules for the concours event. Hint, go back to the last Parade web site, the PCRs are clearly identified.

The National PCRs, in its appendices, will also suggest competitive rule guidance for regions. However, with events at the regional level, the “rules” are for guidance only, and at a regional event there can be fairly major changes in both classes and judging criteria. Suggestion, if you are planning to enter a major regional Concours d’Elegance, contact the Concours chair, and ask that a copy of the judging sheets be sent to you by email prior to the event. It’s a good way not to be surprised at a regional event, where say the interior barrels of the wheels are judged, and not just the external wheel and tire surfaces.

At the 2018 National Parade Concours d’Elegance, there were the following Classes within the four major Groups.

Prep I Touring - Class Winners
Prep II Full - Class and Group Winners
Prep II Street - Class Winners
Prep II Touring - Class Winners
Preservation - Class and Group Winners
Restoration Class and Group Winners

We won our class in Preparation II Full, and advanced as one of three class winners, to a second judging seven hours later, for overall in Group Preparation II. Please note, Street and Touring class winners in Prep II were not eligible for that judging and the overall group award (again by the PCRs). As an aside, in one Prep II class, one entrant was insistence that in Street, the engine in his vehicle would be judged. The rules and judging sheets for Street clearly exempted engines from being judged. He spent a great deal of time on the engine, which was not scored to the detriment of the other areas of the car that were judged. That is hard-won future knowledge.

Hopefully, this very basic primer as to just one of the Concours de'Elegance Groups will give you reason to check the PCRs and to obtain a copy of the judging sheets (whether National or regional) before entering an event.

As to clear bras (really plastic protective film, PPF) there is no rule addressing the application of that material on cars in either Preparation I or Preparation II at the National Level. PPF is not a “no-no.” Like wise, your car does not need to have either the original brand of tires, the original brand of windshield wipers, or other expenables on it. On our shown Porsche at Osage Beach, we had and have a full PPF installation (clear bra) to the windshield. Your car will be dinged, or lose some tenths of a point, or even full points, if the PPF is not installed properly, if it streaked, has debris impact areas (“rock chips”) much like original paint. The same comments are true for all of the most recent regional concours events we have entered.

Remember however that Concours de'Elegance events are manned by people, and a judge can bring his/her own misconceptions to an event. Talk to the judge(s) after judging, both of you may learn somethings. We had one exterior judge who was going to subtract from originality points as he thought the chrome window moulding on our Preservation Group car was not original, and that only black anodized mouldings were. He was wrong, and we were able to change his misconception.

Fortunately, in regions where there are one or several concours events during the year, the Concours de’Elegance Chair will usually have a concours tech session early in the year. You can learn alot about preparing a car and how it will be judged. Look for it or ask the Concours chair if there will be such a session.

The above are just some comments to dispel certain concours misunderstandings, and to offer learned knowledge that prior to any National or regional event look at judging sheets, the PCRs and judging criteria. Keep the faith, Type 2.