i386_64

Hello folks,

I've been hanging around this forum lately, how nice chaps here are. Loved the attitudes, which made me move one step ahead for getting a Porsche.

Honestly, I've always worried about owning one, due to obnoxious ownership/servicing costs, Mercs/BMWs/Audis felt they're better known cars by the mechanics. I'm living in the UK, and I do +20k miles per annum, mostly in the Europe, Turkey, and Cyprus. As a family, we need something practical, and can put a smile on my face during my nightly kebab trips. My current S500 fails in that corner, it's too posh and luxurious for me, and owning a saloon car in the UK lately become a pain due to the increasing number of potholes.

I've visited a couple of Porsche dealerships lately, they're quite snobs, and they mostly know nothing about the options, mechanics, and costs. I don't know, perhaps I'm nearly turning thirty nowadays, they might have felt that I'm a slightly overshot customer for that thing — I don't know what market segment this thing is aimed to. Getting it to a test drive itself was even a pain. The salesperson didn't even know what a PDCC and PTV is. I didn't bother asking for finance options, drove my *ss off having driven four hours from Surrey to Nottingham.

Anyways, since now we're really looking into owning one, I would like to ask a couple of things about the Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid (2019-2020), in particular.

1. Is PCO worth it, especially in the UK? Should I extend the warranty? Are the extended warranty and regular warranty alike?
2. For a reason, most of the Cayenne TSEs don't have PSE fitted. It seems you can retrofit it through Tequipment. Is it practically doable, should I chase for a car with an existing PSE, or throw £2,700 on the one where I liked the spec and retrofit it next? Do I have to wait for weeks to get the parts sorted? Or, is there any good custom exhaust brand that you can suggest, who can do perhaps better for a similar cost?
3. I liked the InnoDrive pretty much. My current Merc has it (Distronic Plus), I've tested a car with InnoDrive in the weekend, it's quite the same, besides the InnoDrive is able to reduce the speed before the speedgates, which is quite common in the UK. It seems like there is a way to upgrade the regular ACC to Innodrive, people do it online but it isn't clear in what conditions you can do that. Has anyone done that on a similar car?
4. PCCB, the ceramic brakes — how often do you need to change those? Most of the offerings of the competitors don't bother fitting them. I see there is a huge benefit of performance and lack of brake dust, but that thing looks to be quite expensive to replace. I don't do hard brakes regularly, I don't do tracks. Is it something impractical to have, or they look cool and perform really well and should I get it? I'll do lots of miles on it, could really PITA to throw tens of thousands every couple of years.

I asked for the facelifted models, particularly Cayenne Hybrid. The build date for a new one you'd get 2024 November. RHD production seems to be massively delayed to due to shortages. I'm already eyeing TSEs, will get one and call it a day.

Looking forward to your valuable opinions, thanks for the help.

kayjh

Short answer: CPO is worth it. I wouldn't own a Cayenne without warranty. Repair costs can be staggering if a major component fails. It tells you something when an oil service is $1,200USD. A family member paid $23,000 USD to replace a failed PDK in a 5 year old Macan S. As far as PSE, if you like the sound, all things being equal (ie you can find a unit with PSE) I'd suggest looking for a unit with that option rather than retrofitting. I don't have Innodrive but if you read enough on this forum, I think you'll find it doesn't receive great reviews. I'd also skip the PCCBs. I think the stock brakes are more than up to the task, but some like them. They are a very expensive option though, which is reflected in used car prices. Good luck on your search.

i386_64

Thanks for your suggestions. That PDK replacement is hell expensive. CPO seems to be the way to go.

I think InnoDrive might be less useful in the US than it is in the Europe. I've driven at least 80% of 45000 miles I did with Distronic Plus, so I believe I'll be happy with the InnoDrive cruise. The speedgates are quite common in the UK and most of the time you'll find these smart motorways where they adjust the speed limit accordingly with the traffic. If you don't reduce your speed, you'll get a hefty fine. InnoDrive behaved quite smartly by reducing the speed before the speedgate, which was quite cool. Haven't seen that before.

PCCBs are standard on Turbo S E-Hybrids here. You have to take it. I'm concerned about its maintenance and replacement, I have no prior experience with the carbon ceramics.

kayjh

From what I've read, Innodrive is not as developed as the Mercedes system but I'm sure you will have the opportunity to try one before you buy. Good luck. PS Thanks for correcting on PCCB for this model. For 2024, Turbo S E Hybrid (Canada) doesn't get PCCB as standard equipment.

Needsdecaf

PCCB's last pretty much forever. Just make sure you're keeping on top of the pads and change them when needed. If purchasing used, I wouldn't shy away from them at all.

Woofman

InnoDrive seems to be a fairly rare feature here in the U.S. and I doubt that most rennlist forum members fully appreciate what it does. Even with its occasional adaptive speed malfunctions and sometimes overly conservative behavior - both of which can be overridden by the driver, I wouldn't have a vehicle without it or even more advanced automated features. I find InnoDrive especially useful when driving on unfamiliar winding 2-lane rural roads at night where there are sharp curves and advisory speed limits as low as 20 mph such as I encountered two nights ago.

This video shows a 2022 Audi A8 with a feature that appears to be functionally identical to Porsche InnoDrive. Edit: By the way, unlike in the video, I keep my hands lightly rested on the steering wheel while using InnoDRive.

kayjh

That Audi is ping ponging back and forth in its lane just like Cayenne does and you have to keep putting your hand on the steering wheel (the same for all "self driving" vehicles). I just don't see the point.

TacoBuddy

Its a pity they didnt try the driver camera approach I believe BMW uses on the x5.

Woofman

Now that you mention it, I do see a slight left and right movement in the steering wheel but I wouldn't call it ping-ponging. But the side to side movement looks more severe due to the video being sped up - I'm guessing to around 200%. It's nothing like the jerking that "regular" Lane Keep Assist does when a driver touches a lane line without signaling. The driver in the video occasionally touched the steering wheel because the VW/Audi/Porsche system requires touching the steering wheel at least every minute or so. Otherwise, the system will warn the driver and front seat passenger with very strong seat belt tugs and then, if the driver doesn't touch the steering wheel, bring the vehicle to a stop and turn on the emergency flashers.

InnoDrive comes with Active Lane Keep Assist which on my 2022 Cayenne keeps it perfectly centered in its lane without any detectable ping-ponging. If you have and are using InnoDrive with Active Lane Keep Assist on your Cayenne and it is ping-ponging in its lane, something is wrong that a Porsche dealership should be able to fix.

Here's a link to a Porsche reference that explains InnoDrive with Active Lane Keep Assist: https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/t...stance-systems

It's a cool feature to have when not in fun driving situations. When I drove 400 miles round trip to rennlist member Bearcat's house in August to have my matrix headlights enabled by 9XX, I let InnoDrive do much of the driving since most of it was on boring Interstate or other well marked highways. It made the trip much less stressful which was hugely important back then since it was before cataract surgery when my vision was 20/80 in one eye and 20/400 (i.e. legally blind) in the other eye. (After the recent surgeries, I now have 20/25 and 20/20 vision which may get better as healing continues.) I've also been in a number of brief to lengthy stop-and-go traffic jams in my year with the Cayenne - one memorable one that probably lasted an hour. I just let InnoDrive do the driving while I watched and listened to music.

kayjh

I get tired having to remember to place my hand on the steering wheel every so many seconds. I test drove a Tesla Model 3 in Palm Springs a few years ago where the roadway lines are perfect - and so was the self steering. But I haven't seen a Porsche that can meet that standard, so I'd personally pass on the option. One day they'll get there.

ihbond

x7 as well..had it in our ‘24. Better then cayenne for sure…but sometimes gremlins just happened, and you were like oh ****, time to quickly think\fix the computers scenario that didn't exist.. from mesa to SD worked about 80% of the time it seemed..but still lots better then porsche’s imho…enough so not to put it in our build

i386_64

I've read that in many places, it's better to hear someone approving it. Thanks for that.

I'm checking how much does a pad replacement cost. Found it in Teile.com, it looks like a complete overhaul for front and rear costs around £1,000 for the parts.Even though they look quite expensive compared to similar set of steel brakes, it still sounds reasonable for what they do. I've seen a couple of Porsche specialists in my area, I'll ask what's their asking for the labour.

A couple of cents about the InnoDrive, the fact that it's working in higher speeds is where it shines. Obviously, UK is by no means good place to test it, and I have very limited experience on that tool compared to most of you. People cruise at quite high speeds in Europe. Distronic Plus is able to run up to 210 km/h (130 mph), same as how InnoDrive does. It makes the long journeys easy, even though it's not doing the steering entirely, it saves you from doing a lot of something called 'microsteering', so I think people don't really expect the car to self-drive here, they consider it unsafe for higher speeds, the roads are narrower and they're not straight compared to America. I never take my hands off even though Distronic is doing most of the job for me during those cruisings, but I hardly steer deliberately, you don't really have to think about changing lanes since it does it automatically when you use the indicators. Mercedes's implementation is also quite strict, it doesn't take any risks, not like Tesla where it was constantly trying to drive aggressively in the narrow British roads.