E Hybrid Electric Only Range
12-22-2022, 11:12 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
E Hybrid Electric Only Range
I just picked up my 23 EH Platinum Edition less than a month ago, I think if I am correct I saw 31 miles on a full charge, it was probably first couple of days and then it went to 28 miles with 100% charge. What do others see?
12-22-2022, 11:41 PM
#2
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Welcome to PHEV ownership!
The indicated range is a guess. We call it the guess-o-meter. Just like I’d you drive a gas car heavily. And then fill it, your range will be a lot lower than normal. Same with an EV…EXCEPT WIGH AN EV, your range enter is WAY more sensitive to how you’ve been driving, environmental conditions, etc.
High 20 miles is more or less normal. Search, there are similar threads
The indicated range is a guess. We call it the guess-o-meter. Just like I’d you drive a gas car heavily. And then fill it, your range will be a lot lower than normal. Same with an EV…EXCEPT WIGH AN EV, your range enter is WAY more sensitive to how you’ve been driving, environmental conditions, etc.
High 20 miles is more or less normal. Search, there are similar threads
The following users liked this post:
poolie (01-13-2023)
12-23-2022, 10:07 AM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Welcome to PHEV ownership!
The indicated range is a guess. We call it the guess-o-meter. Just like I’d you drive a gas car heavily. And then fill it, your range will be a lot lower than normal. Same with an EV…EXCEPT WIGH AN EV, your range enter is WAY more sensitive to how you’ve been driving, environmental conditions, etc.
High 20 miles is more or less normal. Search, there are similar threads
The indicated range is a guess. We call it the guess-o-meter. Just like I’d you drive a gas car heavily. And then fill it, your range will be a lot lower than normal. Same with an EV…EXCEPT WIGH AN EV, your range enter is WAY more sensitive to how you’ve been driving, environmental conditions, etc.
High 20 miles is more or less normal. Search, there are similar threads
The following users liked this post:
LDT (12-24-2022)
12-24-2022, 11:58 AM
#7
Last edited by Apolo1; 12-24-2022 at 12:12 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Apolo1:
Needsdecaf (12-24-2022),
poolie (01-13-2023)
Trending Topics
The following users liked this post:
Apolo1 (12-24-2022)
12-24-2022, 12:46 PM
#9
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Seriously, what is there to interrupt your life about? If you don’t want to bother, you can always put it in hybrid and drive it like a normal car. And once you’ve experienced the smooth and silent running in EV mode, suddenly it doesn’t seem dumb.
The following 6 users liked this post by Needsdecaf:
daveo4porsche (12-24-2022),
FmrMacanOwner (12-25-2022),
kennb44 (12-25-2022),
poolie (01-13-2023),
rajatparihar (01-02-2023),
and 1 others liked this post.
12-31-2022, 05:47 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
EV Mileage: 2019 Cayenne e-Hybrid
As others have reported on this forum, miles showing after a full charge appear to reflect driving conditions (speed, stop/go, temp) since previous charge and are affected by ambient temperature. We have 11.6K miles on our 2019 Cayenne e-hybrid; it is just over three years old. With ambient temperatures now averaging in the 60s, I’m seeing 21-22 miles showing on after a full charge at home on a 240V circuit with the charger that came with the car. In the summer months with temps in the 70s and 80s, I saw full charge “suggested” range from 22-24 miles.
Recently, I’ve been resetting the trip odometer to zero after charging to capture the mileage at the point when I can no longer run in full EV mode. It’s pretty consistent that I’m seeing about 65-70% of the indicated range, although on a recent run that had fewer stops and included more 45-50 mph segments, I achieved about 18 miles from a 21 mile “aspirational” range. The ambient temperature was warmer that day (70-72 deg). Most driving is running errands in suburban conditions running at speeds from 30 to 45 mph.
I don’t think I’ve seen a reduction in range over our three years of ownership. I’ve been amazed by the flexibility of this e-hybrid. We can do most of our errands on full EV with convenient charging at home and before that in an apartment complex where we rented while relocating. The e-boost coupled with the V6 engine is impressive. I wonder about getting sufficient oil into the engine when it cuts in at a reasonably high RPM when EV is over or when needing more power (hills, passing, etc.). If I’m near 0 range, I sometimes start the engine (e.g., going to Sport) while at a light or at low speeds to “prime” the engine. (I’m way too sensible to do this on occasions like when I want to be the first away when the light turns green. HaHa. Right.)
Recently, I’ve been resetting the trip odometer to zero after charging to capture the mileage at the point when I can no longer run in full EV mode. It’s pretty consistent that I’m seeing about 65-70% of the indicated range, although on a recent run that had fewer stops and included more 45-50 mph segments, I achieved about 18 miles from a 21 mile “aspirational” range. The ambient temperature was warmer that day (70-72 deg). Most driving is running errands in suburban conditions running at speeds from 30 to 45 mph.
I don’t think I’ve seen a reduction in range over our three years of ownership. I’ve been amazed by the flexibility of this e-hybrid. We can do most of our errands on full EV with convenient charging at home and before that in an apartment complex where we rented while relocating. The e-boost coupled with the V6 engine is impressive. I wonder about getting sufficient oil into the engine when it cuts in at a reasonably high RPM when EV is over or when needing more power (hills, passing, etc.). If I’m near 0 range, I sometimes start the engine (e.g., going to Sport) while at a light or at low speeds to “prime” the engine. (I’m way too sensible to do this on occasions like when I want to be the first away when the light turns green. HaHa. Right.)
The following 3 users liked this post by AtTheGlen:
12-31-2022, 02:25 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
As others have reported on this forum, miles showing after a full charge appear to reflect driving conditions (speed, stop/go, temp) since previous charge and are affected by ambient temperature. We have 11.6K miles on our 2019 Cayenne e-hybrid; it is just over three years old. With ambient temperatures now averaging in the 60s, I’m seeing 21-22 miles showing on after a full charge at home on a 240V circuit with the charger that came with the car. In the summer months with temps in the 70s and 80s, I saw full charge “suggested” range from 22-24 miles.
Recently, I’ve been resetting the trip odometer to zero after charging to capture the mileage at the point when I can no longer run in full EV mode. It’s pretty consistent that I’m seeing about 65-70% of the indicated range, although on a recent run that had fewer stops and included more 45-50 mph segments, I achieved about 18 miles from a 21 mile “aspirational” range. The ambient temperature was warmer that day (70-72 deg). Most driving is running errands in suburban conditions running at speeds from 30 to 45 mph.
I don’t think I’ve seen a reduction in range over our three years of ownership. I’ve been amazed by the flexibility of this e-hybrid. We can do most of our errands on full EV with convenient charging at home and before that in an apartment complex where we rented while relocating. The e-boost coupled with the V6 engine is impressive. I wonder about getting sufficient oil into the engine when it cuts in at a reasonably high RPM when EV is over or when needing more power (hills, passing, etc.). If I’m near 0 range, I sometimes start the engine (e.g., going to Sport) while at a light or at low speeds to “prime” the engine. (I’m way too sensible to do this on occasions like when I want to be the first away when the light turns green. HaHa. Right.)
Recently, I’ve been resetting the trip odometer to zero after charging to capture the mileage at the point when I can no longer run in full EV mode. It’s pretty consistent that I’m seeing about 65-70% of the indicated range, although on a recent run that had fewer stops and included more 45-50 mph segments, I achieved about 18 miles from a 21 mile “aspirational” range. The ambient temperature was warmer that day (70-72 deg). Most driving is running errands in suburban conditions running at speeds from 30 to 45 mph.
I don’t think I’ve seen a reduction in range over our three years of ownership. I’ve been amazed by the flexibility of this e-hybrid. We can do most of our errands on full EV with convenient charging at home and before that in an apartment complex where we rented while relocating. The e-boost coupled with the V6 engine is impressive. I wonder about getting sufficient oil into the engine when it cuts in at a reasonably high RPM when EV is over or when needing more power (hills, passing, etc.). If I’m near 0 range, I sometimes start the engine (e.g., going to Sport) while at a light or at low speeds to “prime” the engine. (I’m way too sensible to do this on occasions like when I want to be the first away when the light turns green. HaHa. Right.)
Does the ICE, if under a demanding grade (we have those here quite a bit) cut in at a high throttle level from the off state, or does the vehicle predict ahead somewhat and, depending on the drop rate of the state of charge, bring up the engine at a lower throttle level to augment power delivery, allowing the battery drain rate to reduce 1st, then take up the full load before the 30% remaining charge rate is reached ?
When you prime the engine, which is what I would do too, you warm it up some 1st, while get the oil fully circulating and lubricating, and then start a transition to having the ICE take over. Wise. But does the owner's manual discuss this attempt to increase engine longevity.? We have a 997 and always get the oil to about 190 def F before giving it a real load.
Think of it in terms of someone who drives around SLO doing their small errands in E mode for a month, and then in January decide they want to see the big breakers at Morro Bay, in a spirited fashion. So outside temp is 50, they get to the 1st big hill after 10 miles Northbound on PCH, and step on it. Now the ICE spins up after not running for a month before.
Last edited by Ericson38; 12-31-2022 at 07:13 PM.
The following users liked this post:
AtTheGlen (12-31-2022)
12-31-2022, 11:45 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
EV to ICE Transition
Interested in how the vehicle transitions from EV to ICE like you described. When EV is over means what specifically? We test drove one of these yesterday at the new dealership in San Luis Obispo and of course are not going to get a new 2023 Hybrid into this mode in the 6 mile test drive.
Does the ICE, if under a demanding grade (we have those here quite a bit) cut in at a high throttle level from the off state, or does the vehicle predict ahead somewhat and, depending on the drop rate of the state of charge, bring up the engine at a lower throttle level to augment power delivery, allowing the battery drain rate to reduce 1st, then take up the full load before the 30% remaining charge rate is reached ?
When you prime the engine, which is what I would do too, you warm it up some 1st, while get the oil fully circulating and lubricating, and then start a transition to having the ICE take over. Wise. But does the owner's manual discuss this attempt to increase engine longevity.? We have a 997 and always get the oil to about 190 def F before giving it a real load.
Think of it in terms of someone who drives around SLO doing their small errands in E mode for a month, and then in January decide they want to see the big breakers at Morro Bay, in a spirited fashion. So outside temp is 50, they get to the 1st big hill after 10 miles Northbound on PCH, and step on it. Now the ICE spins up after not running for a month before.
Does the ICE, if under a demanding grade (we have those here quite a bit) cut in at a high throttle level from the off state, or does the vehicle predict ahead somewhat and, depending on the drop rate of the state of charge, bring up the engine at a lower throttle level to augment power delivery, allowing the battery drain rate to reduce 1st, then take up the full load before the 30% remaining charge rate is reached ?
When you prime the engine, which is what I would do too, you warm it up some 1st, while get the oil fully circulating and lubricating, and then start a transition to having the ICE take over. Wise. But does the owner's manual discuss this attempt to increase engine longevity.? We have a 997 and always get the oil to about 190 def F before giving it a real load.
Think of it in terms of someone who drives around SLO doing their small errands in E mode for a month, and then in January decide they want to see the big breakers at Morro Bay, in a spirited fashion. So outside temp is 50, they get to the 1st big hill after 10 miles Northbound on PCH, and step on it. Now the ICE spins up after not running for a month before.
"When EV is over" is when the (hybrid) battery level will not support full-EV (battery-only) driving but will have enough energy for a 20-sec boost (via the steering wheel button) and will retain a reserve charge per Porsche's design. You can predict when this is close because the battery range is indicated in at least three locations on the dash and can watch the range drop from the indicated "aspirational" range (on my '19, I get about 60 to 70% of that indication of 21 to 24 miles) to zero. If I am paying attention (and I usually am because it's a game of "can we do all our errands on one charge if I coast a little her and accelerate more slowly there"), and I see 1 or 2 EV miles left, at an upcoming stop light, I can select "Sport" and start the ICE to prime if for a minute or so. Your post prompted an interesting thought. Before going out on a full charge, I have never "primed" the engine because I'm assuming, as you described in SLO, I will return with a partial charge and plug in upon arriving home - but not between 4 and 9 pm when the rate is 2x other times. [Another digression: with Southern California Edison, hybrid and EV owners qualify for special rates, which applies to all household consumption - about $0.21 for non-prime and $0.52 for prime.] And if heading out for a long drive that will deplete the battery, the ICE will kick in and even on the highway, the RPMs should be low. I wonder if there is a background oiling where the oil pump, if electric and not tied to crank rotation, turns on at a certain level of battery depletion or whenever the SUV is operating given unanticipated ICE running for hills, passing, etc.
I am not aware of any "modulation" via ICE background assist to the battery near depletion to create a slight extension to battery life while gently bringing the ICE up to temp with decent oiling. This is an interesting concept and, in fact is quite different from two great characteristics of this powertrain (IMHO):
1. The electronic boost button, which provides 20 seconds of e-boost even when the battery is too depleted to operate in full EV mode - there's always a sufficient reserve. I recently realized that it's really for use with the ICE because upon pressing the button in EV mode, the ICE kicked in. The EV boost button is more for Sport than Necessity as the ICE powertrain has sufficient power for all the driving I have done, but aside from a boost when passing on a two-lane road with a very limited straight stretch or maybe on a very steep hill - though I've never found the ICE limited on power for the hills like you describe - it really seems to be a Porsche-style sports boost. [I did a launch control start with e-boost on a video for a friend's YouTube channel (SoCal Auto Focus) and was blown away by the thrust!]
2. The other is the uncanny way that the Cayenne runs in e-hybrid mode after the battery is depleted. Of course, there is auto stop/start, but it also obsessively looks for opportunities to coast with the ICE shut off and the return to ICE power is seamless and never too little too late. On highway trips running at 65 to 75 mph, I'm getting 26 to 28 mpg (maybe more?), which is amazing for a vehicle this size. Also, in stop-and-go traffic it will creep in EV-only mode. There is an indicator on the dash under the speedo with green (of course) LEDs that show the extent of battery usage on the left (more LEDs on acceleration) and battery charging on the right (more LEDs with harder braking). Apparently, the amount of regeneration is not great, but it could be, in part, the source of battery charge for EV stop-and-go, etc. while preserving the designed-in reserve.
If I am driving at speed (e.g., 60 mph) or under load (e.g., going uphill) when the battery runs out, the ICE will come in at the "normal" gear and RPM. It's seamless, but this is why I'll try to engage Sport to turn on the ICE if waiting at a light if I know I'll be out of juice before the end of running errands, etc. [Important Note: when bringing in the ICE at a standstill, I feel a torque event, not crazy, but worthy of keeping pressure on the brakes.] Also, the ICE won't turn off as soon as I change back to EV mode apparently to allow a little time for getting oil into the engine (maybe Porsche had put in a high-pressure oil pump for this). I actually have to creep forward and "re-stop" to engage auto stop/start again. And speaking of brakes, don't be surprised if the hill-hold function seems a bit aggressive even on fairly level terrain when the brake is pressed firmly. At first, it's "why isn't the car moving when I accelerate", but it automatically disengages. The good news is that hill hold is effective and it works easily.
Rennlist probably has an algorithm that deletes long posts but risking that I'll add one thing that your post really crystallized in my mind, and that is that the hybrid can provide near-full-EV operation without range anxiety for owners whose errands, commutes and commitments can be done with one charge (and that will be easier with a '23 than it is on the '19s). We have a Taycan on order, but I will hate to give up the Cayenne for its utility and lack of range anxiety - a real consideration with the proliferation of EVs and the increasing reports of charging station problems and waiting lines!
I am surrounded by Land Rovers, Uruses (Uri?), Levantes, Bentleys, the occasional RR Cullinan, DBXs, but there isn't another SUV that I'd want to drive than a Cayenne. Wishing you and others reading this post a Happy, Healthy New Year with lots of Safe Driving Miles and Smiles.
The following 2 users liked this post by AtTheGlen:
poolie (01-13-2023),
rajatparihar (01-02-2023)
01-01-2023, 01:15 AM
#13
As opposed to interrupting your life to go to the gas station?
Seriously, what is there to interrupt your life about? If you don’t want to bother, you can always put it in hybrid and drive it like a normal car. And once you’ve experienced the smooth and silent running in EV mode, suddenly it doesn’t seem dumb.
Seriously, what is there to interrupt your life about? If you don’t want to bother, you can always put it in hybrid and drive it like a normal car. And once you’ve experienced the smooth and silent running in EV mode, suddenly it doesn’t seem dumb.
But yeah, I've got about 1600 miles on my E-Hybrid now, a little over 2 months in, with only one trip to the gas station that I probably didn't need to take.
What an interruption.
01-01-2023, 03:25 PM
#14
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The V6 is pretty smooth and silent running too, at least once you're rolling. It's apparent when it fires up while sitting at a light. Very subtle when it comes in and out at freeway speed during hybrid operation.
But yeah, I've got about 1600 miles on my E-Hybrid now, a little over 2 months in, with only one trip to the gas station that I probably didn't need to take.
What an interruption.
But yeah, I've got about 1600 miles on my E-Hybrid now, a little over 2 months in, with only one trip to the gas station that I probably didn't need to take.
What an interruption.
01-01-2023, 03:51 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
Glen-
I think there is a predict ahead feature for transition to ICE from pure EV mode if the destination is entered ahead of time through the Nav system. Known gradients are used to determine best mode to be in. According to this (leave it to the Aussies to take the world so seriously).
Porsche Cayenne’s E-Hybrid system explained (whichcar.com.au)
When I was working on the Fuel Miser project for GE on their locomotives back in 2008, we had accurate track gradients loaded for routes that would then prompt the engineer (locomotive had GPS-inertial nav package) whether to coast through, throttle up, or reduce air (apply brakes or go into dynamic braking) in order to best use the train's distributed mass and inertia as draped on the earth's surface to get from one point to the other. We were getting about a 12% fuel savings on some routes, and very little on others (like the Transcon along I-40 from LA to Kingman Az.
Back then, dynamic braking meant reconfiguring the motors into generators and throwing all that heat away in heater grids with high HP blowers. Now with lithium batteries, there are efforts to equip head end power with batteries that can absorb this amount of energy and release it on the following climb.
I think there is a predict ahead feature for transition to ICE from pure EV mode if the destination is entered ahead of time through the Nav system. Known gradients are used to determine best mode to be in. According to this (leave it to the Aussies to take the world so seriously).
Porsche Cayenne’s E-Hybrid system explained (whichcar.com.au)
When I was working on the Fuel Miser project for GE on their locomotives back in 2008, we had accurate track gradients loaded for routes that would then prompt the engineer (locomotive had GPS-inertial nav package) whether to coast through, throttle up, or reduce air (apply brakes or go into dynamic braking) in order to best use the train's distributed mass and inertia as draped on the earth's surface to get from one point to the other. We were getting about a 12% fuel savings on some routes, and very little on others (like the Transcon along I-40 from LA to Kingman Az.
Back then, dynamic braking meant reconfiguring the motors into generators and throwing all that heat away in heater grids with high HP blowers. Now with lithium batteries, there are efforts to equip head end power with batteries that can absorb this amount of energy and release it on the following climb.