lerchify

I have a 2020 Cayenne. Today I went to get in it and the car didn’t unlock or turn on. I finally jump started and it and got an error saying that there is electrical system fault and that battery cannot without engine running. Dealer is telling me they don’t have appointments available for a month. Has anyone else experience this issue? Probable cause? Seems like something to do with the alternator and the battery seems to be holding a charge. Thanks!

abokor

If the exact error message in the instrument cluster is “Engine run required for electricity”, it’s likely only from an under-charged battery. After the battery is fully charged, the error should go away. Stick it on a trickle charger and then do a 30 min highway run. If that doesn’t clear it, take it to the dealer.

I have a 2022 and had the same message. Cayenne spent 3 days at the dealer getting the once over (checking battery, charge decay, connections and conferring with the Atlanta tech team). Their conclusion was it needs to be driven more to fully restore the battery. Lots of short trips with many stop/restarts of the engine doesn’t allow the battery to get sufficiently charged.

lerchify

Thanks! Yeah that is the message I am getting, I charged it and then let it run for 20 minutes, but as soon as I cut the engine it's totally dead again, and has to be jumpstarted to start. Plugging in the trickle charges doesn't do anything as the device doesn't recognize that there is any current going to/from the car. I finally got the dealer to agree to let me bring it in tomorrow, but they said due to staffing shortages it will be 5 days before they can properly look at it....

othertbone

A 2020 Cayenne is under warranty so the dealer should come tow the car back to the dealer, give you a loaner, then fix it in a month if they have to.

That's ridiculous brother

LSR

I’m having the same ridiculous issues with my dealer regarding loaners - if you want a loaner, it’s a month before your car can come in for service. They have no cars to sell and not enough loaners for service. They even had to buy a used Cadillac SUV to shuttle service customers to the train station when their Cayenne shuttle got into an accident. I asked what happened to their loaners, and was told Porsche requires dealers to replace loaners every year or less (I forgot the exact length of time I was told), and they have no cars to replace loaners coming off duty.

abokor

I've stopped scheduling around loaners for the reason you mention. I can get a ride or take an Uber home. I'd rather get the car serviced in a reasonable time and move on.

If it's your only car, I get it.

Jeff Budge

I have had a similar issue over the past few months. I will type up my experience, findings, etc. a bit later today. I have had my LiFePo battery replaced with a new one and continue to have trouble and not yet found a definitive solution. More to come soon, as soon as I get free from some meetings.

BIG8

My Land Rover dealer once paid for a rental from Enterprise when they ran out of loaners. Granted, it was a Ford Escape, but still, I thought that was cool of them. Don’t know if they still do that and it hasn’t been necessary, but it’s one of the many reasons I continue to take my Landy to the dealer for service. Great SA who’s been there since I bought it in 2008. Honest and reputable, believe it or not. And I have never gotten the standard Porsche line “that’s normal” or “it’s working as designed.”

abokor

Thanks - please let us know since my dealer was totally stumped and basically just gave me the car back and said drive it more.

I will add that I have an AGM. According to the dealer the battery was not the issue.

Jeff Budge

I have a 2019 Cayenne S (with the LiFePo main battery) that has had, and continues to have, similar symptoms as what you describe. Let me expand a bit on what I have seen, what has been done thus far, what I have found out and what I am currently doing to deal with it until a fix is determined. Unclear whether the cause I have is the same as yours, but perhaps what I have experienced would be of help to you and others.

I have all of the online services enabled, including notably the Car Security package which provides notification via the Security Operations Center (SOC) over and above the PVTS (Porsche Vehicle Tracking System).

I am not listing all of the details, this post is already probably too long, happy to discuss further if it would help.

March 2020 – I received a phone call from the SOC informing me that they detected a theft of my vehicle. My car was in a closed, secured garage at my house at the time. I confirmed that the car was safe and sound and thought nothing else of it. The car started fine, and I used it somewhat regularly, but not daily, and tried to make sure I drove at least 20 minutes in each session based on threads related to electrical/battery issues from low usage & low driving times. I was not using my battery tender (Porsche Charge-o-Mat) regularly at this point in time.

The SOC calls began happening on a more frequent basis, sometimes with my car in the garage and sometimes parked and locked on the driveway outside of the garage. On one call, the SOC agent used the term “sabotage” as opposed to “a theft” which led me to investigate further. After the “sabotage” call, my car would not unlock and I had to use the physical key to open the car. I was unable to jump start the car using another vehicle and eventually was able to get the car jump started from a tow truck driver who had a higher powered jump starter. Once started, the car ran and I received a ton of warning messages including the “Engine run required for electricity”. I left the car running for over 30 minutes and attempted to connect the battery tender via the 12V socket in the passenger footwell. The battery tender was not able to successfully connect and charge via this method, I believe due to the gateway module that others have discussed. Let’s just say I tried every trick I could find related to the gateway module, battery protection circuits, etc., etc., and finally gave up and called Porsche Roadside to get help. The car was dead, and even when jump started was in limp mode.

Porsche Roadside was immediately responsive with ideas and offers of towing and the things you would hope and expect. I called the closest Porsche dealer to me (within 20 miles) and they said they would receive my towed in car, but I should expect it to sit until they could fit it in or until their next available diagnostic appointment which was 1 month out. I called other Porsche dealers in the area, and luckily found that a dealership that was 125 miles away could get me an appointment in a week’s time. Porsche Roadside allowed me to pay the difference between the “covered” tow mileage and the actual tow mileage and my vehicle was flat-bedded to the 125 mile away dealership.

Diagnostics did not reveal any codes or issues that determined cause, but it was found that the LiFePo battery was toast and they installed a new LiFePo battery and had the vehicle flat-bedded back to me at no charge (Thank You!!). Life felt good at that point. But I still bought a couple of jump boxes (one from Hulkman and one from NOCO) to have around just in case.

May 2020 – After several weeks of no trouble, and immediately after a 350 mile road trip, my car had to sit unused for about 60 hours. After those 60 hours, I received a call from the SOC saying my car had a theft. I immediately went to the vehicle, which was safe, and I was unable to unlock the car. I used the manual key and immediately jump started the car using the Hulkman jump box. All the same warnings, but this time I must have caught it soon enough and I was able to connect the Charge-o-Mat and begin charging. It charged for about 1.5 days until the Charge-o-Mat indicated the battery was fully charged.

I reached out to the same 125-mile away dealership and told them what was up, and they said they would see the car as soon as I could get there. I spent a lot of time with the service advisor describing as much detail as I could recall, and diagnosis and related issue searches began. No unusual codes, LiFePo tested fine, charging system fine, all looked normal.

Upon searching for similar symptoms, the SA found a hit. At that time in May 2020, there were about 30 cases of 9Y0 Cayennes of different trim levels that were having this strange discharge problem. It is though to be related to one of the onboard cellular radios that is enabling while the car is parked and locked, not disabling and leading to discharge of the battery. No fix was known, but it is believed to either be a software issue or a problem with the 3G to 4G transition of the cellular carriers, but no conclusive reason nor fix was identified.

July 2020 – I have not yet heard any updates (I should check back with the SA from that 125 mile away dealership…) on root cause or resolution. I am using the car normally, but am connecting the Charge-o-Mat every time it is possible and/or convenient to do so. I travel with the Charge-o-mat and an extension cord. I would say the car has not been parked for more than 12 hours without the Charge-o-Mat connected since my last visit to the dealership. It is a bit of a pain. This car I love essentially has to be plugged in whenever I park. But, using this method has thus far been my solution until a fix can be found.

Maybe I will call that SA and see if he has any updates.

Schnave

Great write up Jeff. You may wish to ask your dealer if this TSB has been applied to your Cayenne. The TSB describes a battery drain issue that affects certain 2019 Cayennes. It states:

“Due to a faulty Timer function for the internal clock in the instrument cluster, there is a possibility that the control unit system will be activated cyclically by the instrument cluster after stopping the vehicle.
As a result, the control unit system will not be switched to energy-saving mode, resulting in increased closed-circuit current consumption. This can deplete the vehicle battery if the vehicle is idle for a long time.”

See attached for the TSB. Good luck with this. I would be frustrated, too.

Jeff Budge

Excellent! Thank you Schnave. As I was writing this up, I actually hoped someone would search for a related TSB, but forgot to ask. I will check with my SA.

lerchify

I had the same issue with the alarm system, but they claimed it was due to a software update, it stopped doing it after I intentionally set the alarm off by opening the door from the interior after it was locked. That being said, driving it to the dealer this morning I got another warning stating that the AWD system had failed and that only rear wheel drive was available, when I finally reached the dealer it was off, but the SA noted that he thought he car was idling roughly, Unfortunately sounds like it could be more than just an electrical issue but let's see. They also said that due to staffing shortages it may be a week before they can even look at/attempt to diagnose the car - and no loaner, so I am without a car for a week. Discouraging since the car is still only warranty and I have only had it for 2 years, I would have hoped for better reliability.

Jeff Budge

A quick update after a few conversations with my SA. It appears that this TSB (WJ60) was eclipsed by other work done on my 2019 Cayenne S, but since WJ60 was not specifically applied, he provided a method believed to test whether my voltage drop is related to the faulty timer issue that WJ60 addresses versus something in the Porsche Connect platform. This was offered by the SA as I can't get my vehicle in for service for several weeks, and I am always willing to learn more about my Cayenne and help test my own vehicle to figure out causes, and hopefully solutions.

So his recommendation was:
1) Turn on ignition, but don't start the engine
2) Record voltage shown on dash
3) Put the car in Private Mode (I think of it as airplane mode for the Porsche Connect system) PCM > Set > Porsche Connect > Check the box next to Private Mode
4) Turn off ignition and lock vehicle
5) Leave car parked and locked overnight
6) Next morning, turn on ignition, but don't start engine
7) Record voltage shown on dash

This would then show the voltage drop overnight from parasitic draw not related to Porsche Connect, which would be where the lack of WJ60 would show. While not 100% conclusive and arguably low precision, it would at least indicate if there was voltage drop overnight in this mode.

I did the same overnight voltage drop check without private mode for comparison.

What I found is that my Cayenne, when in Private mode, had negligible voltage drop overnight (less than 0.1v), but in "Normal" mode would drop an average of 0.15v overnight, and I calculated that if voltage drop is linear, I would lose about 0.33v every 24 hours while parked and locked with the Porsche Connect platform active. I doubt seriously that voltage loss would be linear, so expect I would easily drop 2v in less than a week, which matches with my experience described in my earlier post.

So I feel better about not connecting my Charge-o-Mat when parked for a day or 2, but will continue to connect the battery maintainer for any period longer than a couple of days until a fix is found.

One note if you try this Private Mode test. After engaging Private mode and then returning to "Normal" mode, the Connect website and Connect app showed differing information about my car for about 36 hours after the change. I tried uninstalling/reinstalling the iOS app and other things trying to get them to sync back up, but eventually just waiting allowed the car, website and app to sync back up again.

abokor

Great info. Looking forward to understanding what your results are. I'll compare what I see once I get mine back from PPF/tint tomorrow.

This assumes the voltage reading in the instrument cluster is accurate. Seems to be accurate on mine as mine is constantly changing depending on the driving conditions and how long it sat.

If in Private Mode - is all that you lose is the ability to use the app and website to communicate with the Cayenne? Any other downsides?

If keeping in Private Mode and locked saves me from plugging the car in every 2 days - I'd probably do that.