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the following screen shot is pretty typical for our usage…
829 miles of driving on 6x% worth of a single tank of gas for daily usage
54.7 MPG
I'm filling up less than once a month
the Hybrid is only twenty-[blah-digit] MPG in a continuous highway driving scenario - in every other usage scenario of around town errands and short haul trips (which all stats say most (90%) usage is less than 60 miles a day - way way less than 60 - and most trips are actually less than 3 miles out and back in) the cost per-mile is way way lower…
it all depends on how you're going to use it - Hybrids make very little sense to me _IF_ your normal use case is driving significantly (4x or more) beyond the battery range on a daily basis - they make a lot of sense if you daily usage is less than to 2x the battery range - but even then they can make a lot of sense if you plug-in between "major" trips - for us our usage is the "morning" errands - and sometimes the "afternoon/evening" errands - charge between errands and overnight - and boom 90-99% of miles driven is pure-EV - ICE motor comes home "cold" having never been started…
then there is the road trip - yeah on a road trip MPG will quickly approach ICE level's of consumption with the hybrid portion doing very little other than torque-filling for performance and improving start/stop - if you're driving up/down hills this car is amazing with entire stretches of downhill portions being done with the ICE motor being shut down because downhill it's not needed and it recharges the battery (seriously on hwy 17 north/south in California - going back and forth between Santa Cruz and San Jose this car is amazing in that 1/2 the trip is with no ICE motor running even when the battery is nearly empty) - the interesting thing to me about this car is that porsche had to re-engineer everything on the vehicle to operate without the ICE motor running - so it can shut down the ICE and _NOTHING_ changes -AC/heat run, brakes, lights, power steering _EVERYTHING_ remains operational and it just shuts down the ICE motor and runs on pure EV power when going downhill - with my 911 Turbo "cuts" out at a stop light I lose AC compression and the air starts getting warmer…not on the Cayenne
if you're on the road 100 miles or more a day _MOST_ of the time I completely buy/agree with those numbers. If this is the daily kid hauler and grocery getter and the occasional (2 or 3 times a year and occassional weekends) then those numbers are the most pessimistic and my personal experience is that you'll do way way way better than they would indicate - if you want a near Cayenne experience pure-EV I highly recommend you check out the Audi eTron - it's an underrated EV and there is no ICE motor to pull down the range numbers.
I don't see how those numbers make any sense when I'm routinely driving for 5 or 6 weeks in a row on a single tank of gas, and yet "living my life" with daily activities due to daily and overnight charging - and if done right electricity is very very affordable.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 05-21-2022 at 10:47 AM.
most of my daily miles are pure EV - if you move to PG&E's EV biilling program and charge the hybrid "off peak" the costs are way lower ($0.14 kwh/less)
we can go weeks with the ICE motor never starting…
we have 14,000 miles on the Hybrid - 8000 of which are EV miles - if we don't road trip - a tank of gas lasts in excess of 900 miles of driving - and pure EV miles is about 2.8 miles/kWh - or less than $0.04/mile to drive…
it all comes down to how much pure EV vs. ICE driving you do - but the numbers your using don't match my usage for the past year…YMMV
I need to travel 30 miles a day (round trip) to work and home 4 days a week. So one charge a day.
On weekends (3 day) we travel 240 to and from the marina, and there are no chargers there.
Maybe this tool (My Plug-in Hybrid Calculator (fueleconomy.gov)) is not accurate in some way. When I went to charging 2x a day, the total cost went down about $20 a week. This would assume a charger at work and at the marina.
Here's our rate plan. Do you have one you can post at 14 cents per kW hour in California ?
There was an earlier comment that the E hybrid is more of a performance booster (torque) type of upgrade than it is an E car. Depending on driving patterns, that could be the case.
I want to get a better understanding of the cost of charging the E-Hybrid. Humor my hypothesis and let me know if I am way off. The capacity of the battery is 17.9 kWhs. If I consider the inefficiency in charging lets say it costs 20kWh to charge. Give the price of 1 kWh is 10 cents in Virginia, that will cost me $2 every time I charge, correct?
...
Thanks in advance.
Wally
Wrong.. First, I believe that most hybrid/battery systems won't let U empty them completely, so figure no more than about 14kWhs.. Then...the battery won't be completely empty EVERY time U charge it, so figure maybe only 10kWhs.; that'll cost U only a dollar.
Also seems to me you two would save more money with U driving 3 days a week, but maybe I missed something.
Good luck with yours; I decided not to buy the Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid I had ordered; just too complicated, I guess.
Wrong.. First, I believe that most hybrid/battery systems won't let U empty them completely, so figure no more than about 14kWhs.. Then...the battery won't be completely empty EVERY time U charge it, so figure maybe only 10kWhs.; that'll cost U only a dollar.
Also seems to me you two would save more money with U driving 3 days a week, but maybe I missed something.
Good luck with yours; I decided not to buy the Cayenne Turbo S E-Hybrid I had ordered; just too complicated, I guess.
I think it’s more complicated than that. Some will only let the battery charge to 85% and then keep it from discharging completely to prolong the battery life. You might only get to use 75 to 80% of the capacity.
But not all are the same. I think…Tesla doesn’t limit the charge or discharge of it’s batteries, at least they didn’t at one time.
Edit: Another issue starting to appear in hybrids is gas in the oil. On trips where the gas engine runs intermittently, the ICE doesn’t get warm enough to burn off the inevitable small amount of gas that gets past the rings.
I think it’s more complicated than that. Some will only let the battery charge to 85% and then keep it from discharging completely to prolong the battery life. You might only get to use 75 to 80% of the capacity.
But not all are the same. I think…Tesla doesn’t limit the charge or discharge of it’s batteries, at least they didn’t at one time.
Edit: Another issue starting to appear in hybrids is gas in the oil. On trips where the gas engine runs intermittently, the ICE doesn’t get warm enough to burn off the inevitable small amount of gas that gets past the rings.
you can always charge a full EV to 100% - it's just not recommended for daily use - 100% charges "stress" LiON and shortens battery longevity -so you don't do it every day - on my Taycan 85% daiily charge = 220'ish dailiy miles more than enough for non-road trip days (I mostly drive less than 40 miles a day) - I only charge to 100% when I'm planing longer drive for the next day
for my Cayenne ehybrid there is no battery % charge setting - when plugged in you charge to "full" and you drain to "zero" if you drive it enough - there is not as much battery management in a PHEV from Porsche - the only thing you can control is charging schedule - so that you can push charging to "off peak" rates…
my 14,000 miles of usage is averaging well above 35 effective MPG - because honestly most days the ICE motor never even starts…
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 05-21-2022 at 08:06 PM.
the Cayenne gets about 2.2 miles/kwh on pure EV power
at $0.24/kWh (PG&E EVA2 off peak rate see PG&E website reference above) that's about $0.10/mile to drive the Cayenne in pure EV mode ($0.24 / 2.2 miles = $0.10)
in full gas mode you'll get 21 mpg or worse @ 5.89/gallon for gas in california (that's low in my area - $6++++ is more common) that's $0.28/mile for gasoline.
I routinely get nearly 30 miles range on the 2021 Cayenne buzzing around Santa Cruz - and my PMCC charger "fills" up the Cayenne battery to full with about 15 kWh of power - my EV-A grandfathered rate is ~$0.15/kwh off-peak
the Taycan is closer to a 3.2 mile/kWh vehicle (3.6 if you try hard) - so it's about $0.04/mile to drive it…
my Son's 2022 Model Y long Range is like a 3.8 mile/kwh vehicle - so it's about $0.039/mile to drive it with PG&E EV-A off-peak rates.
on the tank of gas pictured above - the effective MPG rate is noted at 54.7 mpg - given a heavy mix of pure-EV daily errands, and occassional/infrequent gas usage…like I said I'm only filing up the Cayenne about once every 4 to 6 weeks and often over 800 miles a single tank of gas…
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 05-21-2022 at 08:09 PM.
The car already has the ~80% margin (top and bottom) built into the battery. No need to further reduce it's usefulness by adding in yet another margin.
My daily needs are pretty much met by the electric drivetrain. On longer trips I will do at least the first bit in sport mode (we bought these things to have a bit of fun, right?) to warm up the engine and reduce the oil consistency issue. Then I might switch modes depending on the road and my mood. It works well.
Just another data point: I average 30mpg (12 km / l) and 3.8 km/kWh - giving me an actual real world e-range of 50km (17 kWh battery, 14+ usable). Roughly half of my milage has been electric.
Overall I like it quite a lot - the dual personality it has is nice. Quiet and chill vs. goes like a train. Dislikes: it does feel a bit heavy (I don't have PDCC, have air), and the brake feel could be a bit better. Both I've gotten used to. It is more than capable of anything I ask of it dynamically.
Has the subject car going 1920 mi on 1386kw-hour of energy (1.38 mi per kW).
That must be real conservative. It also skews the model's results greatly, since it is about 1 mi per kw-hour too low, based on these reports.
Porsche claims 25-30 miles range pure EV for the 17.9 kWh battery - but only 14.x kWh usable - I routinely get 22-30 miles range depending on how driven…1.38 mil per kW is low - 2.2 is "high" for a PHEV like the Cayenne - 2.7 - 3.2 is common for my Taycan.
so I'd consider that website conservative to misleading vs. actual results from the Cayenne by most owners…
05-21-2022, 10:32 AM
