El Sapo

Up at Lake Tahoe this last weekend and it snowed while I was there. Not a lot of snow, but having the spyder rims and summer? tires on the car I was a little concerned what kind of traction I would have going back up and over the pass.

So my question is what setting do you guys who have driven in the snow use? I went with off road MUD setting. I'm curious what Porsche was thinking with all the off road selections. No snow setting? Maybe gravel and sand and mud and whatever the other setting is are more common? LOL...

Another question, I prefer to drive in the normal setting. I can toggle off the auto stop/start in the car settings and remain in the normal driving setting. I've set up the steering wheel diamond button to perform that setting. The service manager told me that it was unusual for my car (19 cayenne base) to do that. Said that Cayenne's are supposed to only bypass the engine on/off when sport mode is selected. Lucky me, I guess? What are your experiences?

John Mclane

As far as I know, from asking the SA, there's no snow setting.
Driving with summer tires yields not only traction issues but braking as well, with or without snow.

philg3

Well said, John. When the first Cayenne was introduced in 2003, they came with summer tires, and people were slip sliding around. There's a thread or two here on this subject with some very unhappy people telling their stories. At the time I lived in the SF Bay Area, and frequently went to my other home in Lake Tahoe. I got a dedicated set of 18" rims and snow tires for the winter. Lot's of other rennlisters did the same. Summer tires are dangerous in snow, M+S's are OK if one encounters snow infrequently, but snow's are the best for these conditions. Big difference in traction.

MaxLTV

IMO, having a Snow setting would be confusing/misleading because compacted snow, fresh snow, and slushy snow behave very differently (e.g., wheel slip is very bad in slush or ice-like snow but essential moderately deep snow, and then becomes potentially negative in deep fresh powder).

Going at speed in compared snow or slush is best with normal setting.
Driving through deep fresh snow - mud or sand (hard to say)
Getting unstuck - rocks (locks all the differentials, so even one wheel with traction will get you moving)

On a different point, please do not drive on summer tires in the snow. I drive to ski every week (both daughters in a ski program), and I've seen so many cars getting in trouble because of that, regardless of how good or careful a driver is. And it does not always have to be a dramatic accident. For example, one time I witnessed a situation where an SUV could not get up a tiny gentle slope just couple of miles before the ski village in a narrow spot with no place to drive around that SUV. Normally that slope would be nothing, even with compacted snow, but it was a powder day and a sudden half a foot of fresh snow reduced the traction on summer tires to nothing. Because of tight space and access blocked by a jam of cars, it took over 40 minutes to get it out of the way partially onto the base of the raised concrete median so that other cars could squeeze by, and then almost as much for the car in front of me to squeeze by. The cars closer to the end of the multi-mile traffic jam that formed were screwed. Naturally, everyone was pissed because they were missing the powder (also lots of parents of athletes late to ski school, which is a big deal). So as I was getting close to that SUV beached on the median I've noticed that some drivers of the passing cars were spitting on that car. I did not join in, but I damn was I mad at an irresponsible person ruining everyone's powder day and ski practice. Even though there was no accident, I would pay for 5 sets of winter tires to not be in that driver's position.

Ray831

Interesting thread, I don't drive in snow much but want the ability. I live in California but love going to the mountains or ski resorts. Are all weather tires fine in the snow? I really don't want to keep a winter set of tires and wheels.

John Mclane

I'm in Chicagoland, so snow is part of the deal here. All season seems to be ok if there's reasonable plowing, temperatures are not close to arctic weather and no major hills.

I've had all season tires in several SUVs (X5, GLS, cayennes) and they are fine for the most part. On my prior C2 and C2S and current C4S I used winter tires. The main difference is the superior braking, following the conditions above.

I had better straight line control on a flat slippery surface with the C2 on winter tires versus the Cayenne on all seasons. It would also brake better. Going an uphill (even my carport which is not that inclined) or turning with slush on the ground, the Cayenne was better. The C4S closes the gap and it's inferior only when snow is soft and not plowed (low ground clearance), at least so far as it's my first winter with it.

Summing up, in well used roads all seasons are probably fine. If you're going up a mountain and/or snow is not aggressively plowed, it may become a problem.

Doesn't matter what you have, the only thing making contact to the floor are the tires.

MaxLTV

With any good all-seasons you will be fine in all but the harshest conditions. In some conditions you may need to drive slower compared to being on real winter tires, but still will be ok and not a danger to yourself or others. You can still get stuck in fresh and deep snow, so maybe some snow chains in the trunk just in case. Modern all-seasons are pretty good - they grip more than enough for an SUV (1G+), so there is no sacrifice compared to summer tires, and are pretty good in winter, especially in places where roads get plowed or salted, and they typically last longer than either summer or winter tires. So if getting to a ski resort the fastest is not an absolute priority, I'd just get the best all-seasons that have the right sizes.

philg3

All weather tires (M+S) are OK in snow, and with AWD are allowed in California for R1 or R2 requirements. R3 is rare, as road are generally closed in these conditions. At checkpoints, CHP will check tires for the M+S designation.

Requirement One (R1): Chains are required, snow tires are allowed.

Requirement Two (R2): Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel drive vehicles
with snow tires on all four wheels.
(NOTE: Four wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain control areas)

Requirement Three (R3): Chains are required on all vehicles, no exceptions.

JCWLS3

Couldn't agree more. Great post, Max. Thanks.

Oneday997

Proper set up is snow tires, sport mode on, PSM off, steer with the throttle - safely sideways!!

Superfans

Think in winter with temperature lower than 7C/45F should have snow tires on.

philg3

Agree in a perfect world, particularly if you live where its cold throughout winter with frequent / deep snow / coupled with poor, inconsistent plowing. This means you need two sets of wheels; snow's for winter, and summer's for rest of year + the hassle of swapping the wheels twice/year. If it doesn't snow at your primary house, and you occasionally go to the mountains, All Weather Tires (M+S) will serve one well, with common sense driving -- smooth acceleration, gentle braking, and no high speed maneuvers.

mass27

What is the favorite/best snow tire for the harshest/most extreme winters.

what wheel (and size) would people recommend to go with the snow tire.