Interesting.

*** end and sides look like they copied Lincoln with their MKC - (http://www.lincoln.com/luxury-crossovers/mkc/2017/) just made the taillights bigger on the bottom instead of the top. If you put the rear ends side by side without any maker indication - I think you'd be hard pressed to tell which is which. The interior looks BMW-ish. The front end looks Macan-ish.

It's an interesting pastiche* of themes.. it's going to have to drive super to justify whatever astronomical price Porsche will be asking for it. It certainly isn't grabbing me. It looks like a "me-too" design. Maybe like the 955, it will look better in person? It certainly isn't a big change from the current model.

* = pastiche [pa-steesh, pah-] noun
1. a literary, musical, or artistic piece consisting wholly or chiefly of motifs or techniques borrowed from one or more sources.
2. an incongruous combination of materials, forms, motifs, etc., taken from different sources; hodgepodge.

BTW - is there some reason that Lexus is the only SUV manufacturer who figured out where to mount the rear wiper (under the wing at the top of the rear window)? How hard can this possibly be to figure out? Move it where it won't get eaten by carwashes, broken by sliding snow/ice off the roof, and hidden from damaging UV rays. Vaunted "German Engineering" is looking more and more questionable when they can't get something this dead simple right.

FWIW - I just priced out a Lincoln, trying to select the same equipment my $125,000 CTT has in it. The only thing I didn't see offered was the heated steering wheel and 4-zone HVAC. This would be a 4 cylinder, 6 speed, with all the doo-dads I could find for technology stuff. Pretty comparable. It started at $39k, and all the crap thrown at it - ended up at MSRP $45k. Dealers were offering it for $40k-43k. I know it wouldn't handle or drive as well as the Porsche one, and it's probably a FWD driveline with grafted on rear-drive (like a Lexus..) but comfort and functionally - it's hard to justify $80,000+ for the Porsche. The Lincoln apparently has 5 year included maintenance, and a 4-year/50,000 mile overall warranty and a 7year/100,000 mile driveline warranty. They'll also pickup and deliver to your home/office - bringing you a loaner when they pick up the vehicle, and taking the loaner back when they've finished servicing it. If FMC would wrap their heads around making a performance model with some power (stock is around 280HP, 300ft/lbs - not awful but nothing to write home about) they might actually have a semi-competitive vehicle to offer.

 

I wonder how big that screen is? It looks bigger than the Panamera's.

Interior looks a bit cheap, but this is the base Cayenne. Let's see the turbo.

 

At least it isn't as ugly as the spy shots were.

The fronts interior looks a bit less nice than I would have thought. The back and rear about the same.

 

Hey boss put that ^^ in my grind it out thread too.

The rear 3/4 view forward looks a bit like an Acura. But the full rear view looks better to me as maybe they brought the hips out again?

 

My initial impression:

Ew. Hard pass. Front looks like a box. Don't like massive dash screens everything is going to, and I see that center stack driving me nuts. with it probably being touch-sensitive lots of things and a massive fingerprint magnet.

Looks like my 958 will be followed by a 958.

Now, someone go buy a purpurite S or Turbo, with the offroad and tow options and don't put many miles on it over the next 5-6 years until my current Cayenne gets put out to pasture so I can buy that off you

Funny you say that, I've been saying the Lincolns look like a cheaper Macan / Cayenne since they've (Lincoln) been refreshing their lineup.

I think Range Rovers, and some GM full-size put the wiper in the right spot as well.

With the Lincoln, you get great value for your dollar, but they lack the soul of the Porsche. You get what you pay for. Also, all the Lincolns use the same Ford ecoboost motors, so tuning potential is out there. That 2.3 Turbo can be turned up to be a pretty gnarly little engine. I also don't see the Ford having the same longevity as the Porsche.

 

What I do see the Lincoln doing - if they can pull it off - is taking the "buying a Cayenne for the SO" sort of purchase.

The problem that they have is they still produce dreck like the Lincoln Navigator. I'm sure it's profitable for them, but why not leave the aircraft-carrier size market to Ford? Until they do that - offload the dreck (even if it makes a few bucks) and then come out with a halo car that everyone will rave about, at a price to beat the Germans and performance to top the Germans.

They could do it - but it would require selective shedding of market share with the anticipation that they'll pick up a better more profitable market to sell into. Do they have that sort of insight? Unfortunately - I very much doubt it - it's still the mindset of "moving units off the floor.."

At one time, Lincoln and Cadillac were truly the luxury market leaders in the US. They lost that by trying to be all things to all people - and making cars to fit any pocketbook. Much like what BMW has been doing for the past 10 years (and reflected in their sales the past few years - dropping year by year..)

 

They won't dump the Navigator because it's actually a pretty large seller for them. Lots of fleet and limo companies run them. Their "halo" car is the Continental, and they made it very clear they have no intention of competing with the Germans in terms of a "driver's" luxury car. Not for a lack of capability, FoMoCo has the money to do... well, whatever they want right now. They intentionally want to focus on "just luxury" and in-car tech.

I can't say that I wouldn't love to see the Continental be a reliable S-class/A8/7-series, and for them to bring the Mark-series back to life (my first two cars were a Mark VII and a Mark VIII) but FoMoCo management simply couldn't be bothered. Cars aren't selling anyways, for Cadillac either. Their biggest market is crossovers and SUVs, they're building what sells.

I haven't seen BMW's sales dropping lately, I've read the last few years they keep posting record profits. It's not what we like as enthusiasts, but it's what sells cars and makes money. At the end of the day, that's the only reason most companies exist.

Hell, our now-beloved Cayennes were viewed as the devil incarnate (as was the Boxster), but it's the other vehicle that's credited for saving Porsche (along with the Boxster), as they were not in a good position in the early-2000's.

Let them sell the volume stuff, and that bankrolls development for making amazing things like the 918, Ford GT, GT350R, 911R, and the bonkers stuff that bitch-slaps physics & logic like the Cayenne Turbo, all the while building strength in the company to make everything else better.

 

The problem I see for them is the Navigator simply dilutes the brand. Being known for selling fleet-cars isn't a path to a reputation as a luxury car brand. Might be better if they brought back the Mercury nameplate and stuck it on that huge truck.. still call it Navigator - but the "Mercury Navigator".

They did make a semi-competitive car around 2001 or so - the LS - it was very close in spec to the BMW 5 series of the era. It supposedly even handled decently. I suspect it was a victim of corporate fleet economy since it came with a V8 (V6 was standard - but a lot of them were delivered with the V8..) It also was somewhat troublesome and dealer service was apparently not quite up to the task.
I get BMW's press announcements (somehow they thought I was a journalist - and it's one of those lists that once you're on you can never get off.) For the past few years monthly sales have been down vs the same month the prior year, and end of year sale numbers have been down on the car division. The motorcycle division is doing quite well - they've had consistently growing sales numbers since they started making bikes to appeal to a younger demographic.

I believe the decrease in units out the door is what's motivated them to actually announce reducing the number of models/variants they're making. They have such a broad range of models it's really confusing to figure out what is what. They've fallen into "make something for each and every backside" - loosing sight of what sold their cars before, reasonable quality and great enthusiast performance. (That's from someone who has owned about 15 BMWs - including cars and bikes.. I still own a BMW bike - they didn't lose their way there too badly.)I have no animosity toward the new Cayenne.. I hope it does quite well so perhaps I can buy a nice used turbo after the first owner takes the $80,000 hit on depreciation.. but it doesn't look like anything I'll be sitting waiting for the official release for, or rush to the dealership to see the first one they get. Too much "me too"..

 

One thing I have liked about Porsche and Jaguar-Land Rover is they have maintained their style of vehicle.

Ive said the cars are just cars for while. I had a Mercedes loaner. Damn this thing is an Acura. I was at the dealers just browsing for my wife while she was out of town and tried the Lexus. I said heck it obviously had MB as its target. So it seems to me that are all losing the individual traits and becoming one style and one brand. Porsche hasn't done that so much yet.

But yeah in a way this Cayenne isn't exactly what I would have thought.

I know the crunch is on for these guys to make more money. Even though they have. Porsche sold more and had big years. BMW was over the top. But something I saw at MB was that the sales lot is full of $30K cars. Really. They are trying to squeeze out every dollar in sales that can. Land Rover gets a bunch of its poor quality ratings from its lower level Discovery too. Of course Land Rover sales have about doubled in 4 or 5 years. But they most of that is the Range Rover Sport and Evoque which is the middle top of their line.

We (I) am still have decisions to make. Well unless she just says I want a Cayenne.

 

Mrs TR just passed by and I showed the Cayenne to her. She said well it isn't as bad as I thought it could be - it kind of looks like a station wagon.

She said where is all the fancy interior. And more about that and less about the wheels and lights. HA.

Im going to text my Porsche sales buddy. Station wagon.

 

I don't think they quite care as much about prestige as they do money. That's also not a stigma against them I've commonly heard. I mean, nobody says the image of a Mercedes is diluted due to the sprinter.... at least not that I've ever heard.

The LS was a great car, but it was failed by marketing, and being a Jag. As bizarrely reliable as they were... being a Jag, (ours made it to 280k before the trans **** the bed, at which point my father just didn't care any more) their flaw was poor planning for parts departments and dealer training, since they weren't barndoor-engineering as the rest of everything else Lincoln made.

I didn't know that much, I was just going from what I'd read on various auto sites. I think I'm calling it done with BMW after #8, because I need another E34 in my life at some point. I've heard their bikes are amazing.

I never disliked them, I just never considered purchasing one until a few years ago.... can read my "why I think the Cayenne is perfect" rant in TR's grind it out thread... They sell more, they depreciate more. They sell more of this new one, the more 958's depreciate, for when I go to replace my '11... years from now. I won't be jumping at one for a few reasons, mostly because I'm a peasant, and I personally won't buy anything new first production year. My '11 was an exception with them proving to have no more demons in them than the later ones.... besides variocam failures.

 

OK, so looking at the photos more, it's a standard pass, and not a hard-pass.

I can appreciate how clean and simple the interior is, but heavily dislike how sterile it is. I feel like it should have more physically interesting design aspects, rather than an iPad in the dash. That volume scroller would likely drive me mad. the knurling on the climate control ... controls makes me happy. It looks like a lot of other controls are touch-sensitive, which would also drive me mad, even before the fingerprints it'd collect that would send me into a downward spiral of obsessive-compulsive misery. The square door handles look a little sterile as well, but not in a good way. Appears to have more cargo volume, but that's hard to tell from photos.

Outside, I really like the Porsche letting behind the lens. Nice design feature. Overall it looks like they were trying to make the Cayenne look more like a conventional SUV. Personally, I don't like it. I feel like the unconventional styling in the SUV market is what gives it it's charm. It'll probably sell more of them (there ya go, TR, the Mrs. might be on board now) thus making the 958's depreciate more later on, which I'm ok with (get that Turbo down to my tax bracket yeaaaaahhhhhh) The front is square, and the back looks like an appliance. The rest of the curves look more pronounced and shapely, which I like.

I'm really interested to hear about the suspension and drivetrain changes. I'm guessing it'll be similar to the current, maybe some more power and better efficiency. Possibly lighter weight to play nicely with tightening regulations.

I'll guess it'll have more car-like drive dynamics, and probably not as good off-road without getting some sort of off-road tech package.... don't need to be a genius to make that vague of an assumption, though.

 

For us it is just a two chuckwagon race. The Cayenne or the Rover Sport.

With Mrs TR being a SUV driver, and not a sports car driver, or a name or looks driver, the Rover keeps inching ahead by just being a more traditional SUV. In spite of my much more Porsche bend. Thats why there are different horses in the race.

I can't say as Id like to see one up close first. Porsche can look and be better and snag you in person. Id like to see and drive a 2018 Rover too. We will get a chance to see.

 

If image and perceived comfort frills are all that matters then the RRS has a lot going for it. No shame in that. It ticks a lot of boxes... just NONE of them related to a performance driving experience.

I had one as a loaner for a while and it was quite pleasant for getting around town. The show-stopper for me was the horrendously bad accelerator lag with their turbo diesel model. Like, stomp. on the pedal... wait a down-beat... and then all hell breaks looks as the suspension compresses when the turbo kicks in. It was, unpleasant.

My displeasure was undoubtedly influenced because I was coming from a 5.7L V8 with no turbo, that had zero lag and plenty of grunt off the line. The gas RRS had none of the lag woes but then I'd be back in a boxy rolling luxo-barge with crappy mileage and zero performance handling.

When I had the RRS home, two neighbors e-mailed asking if I'd bought a new car. When I had a black Turbo S in the driveway, two others came and knocked to ask about it. And, of course they suggested test drives which I was glad to let them. Smiles all around. But then that's guys, no doubt the ladies are likely influenced by other factors sometimes.

 

Will have to wait for better pics and videos but based on the above, front looks good, interior looks good, rear looks a little mini-van like to me.