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Given the transfer case issues, I'd be hesitant to go screwing around with deviating from the factory's recommended configurations.
Interestingly this is the comparison on the stock 9Y0 wheelset. There is a larger difference in the rolling circumference than in the Panny turbo wheelset I have, but I guess that's not a huge surprise since the Panamera Turbo was also AWD. I think the takeaway for anyone else not interested in this is keep your PSI's to spec because if sub-1% differences in rolling diameters are killing TCs, being off spec/imbalanced with tire pressures will for sure be a bigger factor than the widths of your rear tires vs. front tires.
I was able to find a set of these; to follow up on North Shores question - any real or perceived problem with running these on our Cayenne? Understanding that the staggered setup is theoretically not the best (I had it on my 955 Turbo), and the curb weight of the Panamera S is greater than my base, is there any issues to mounting these or similar Panamera staggered wheel sets?
TIA!
I find that the 958 tends to want to understeer (push) with the OEM setup of equal sized tires at all 4 corners - I'd imagine a staggered setup would make it more pronounced.
I find that the 958 tends to want to understeer (push) with the OEM setup of equal sized tires at all 4 corners - I'd imagine a staggered setup would make it more pronounced.
That makes sense - I'll swap them on and let you know what appears different - obviously having a lot more rubber on the road with a shorter sidewall would tend to change the handling dynamics in a positive way (all things equal), but you're right that with the stagger it should understeer more.
I find that the 958 tends to want to understeer (push) with the OEM setup of equal sized tires at all 4 corners - I'd imagine a staggered setup would make it more pronounced.
Yeh it certainly seems like staggered is a bit of a lose lose situation. Have some friends with high performance audis, and they always mention i guess what would be "reverse stagger", putting wider tires on the front and narrower on the rear, to help combat understeer, but I dont think anyone has really ever done it, let alone made an educated enough comparison to prove it works.
I have 3 sets of wheels and tires for my cayenne. Never thought I'd justify 3 sets for one cars but it makes total sense and I'm glad I do.
I have an all terrain setup (20" wheel 31" tire) for overlanding and driving on beaches here on long island, a snow setup (20" wheel 31" tire) for driving to upstate new york and vermont for snowboarding in the dead of winter, and I have a high performance setup (21" wheel 29" tire ) because the higher profile all terrain, and snow tires handle like crap and make me sad when I go fast haha.
Would you mind sharing what size tires you have? and do you have air suspension on your cayenne? I wanted to go 31", but most people thought I would rub and advised against it.
Would you mind sharing what size tires you have? and do you have air suspension on your cayenne? I wanted to go 31", but most people thought I would rub and advised against it.
My snow and all terrain tires are 265/50r20. That technically results in a 30.5" tire. I do have air suspension and drive at the lowest setting with virtually zero rubbing. Its close as hell and I have heard rubbing before, but it only occurs when youre at the lowest setting, steering is fully locked, and you hit a bump or pothole (only real life scenario is doing a tight U Turn on a crappy road).
I have a friend with a Q7 and tire fitment seems to be almost identical. he was originally running the same tire setup as me for all terrains, but recently downsized to 18" to gain a bit of sidewall. His tires end up at the same rolling diameter as mine, but for some reason are labeled on the sidewall as 31" but mine are labeled as 30". Not sure what the reasoning is behind that, but whatever route you go, I wouldnt go larger than 30.5". Even if you don't have air suspension and the car sits a bit higher on the springs, I still think you'd run into clearance issue on the inner fender liner.
Yeh it certainly seems like staggered is a bit of a lose lose situation. Have some friends with high performance audis, and they always mention i guess what would be "reverse stagger", putting wider tires on the front and narrower on the rear, to help combat understeer, but I dont think anyone has really ever done it, let alone made an educated enough comparison to prove it works.
I think physics would suggest that putting wider tires on front would combat understeer, but putting narrower in the rear would likely cause oversteer which is worse than understeer.* That said, I agree that the porridge being just right is most likely a square setup.
*Based on OEM's typically designing for understeer vs. oversteer.
I think physics would suggest that putting wider tires on front would combat understeer, but putting narrower in the rear would likely cause oversteer which is worse than understeer.* That said, I agree that the porridge being just right is most likely a square setup.
*Based on OEM's typically designing for understeer vs. oversteer.
Most Audis are notorious for understeer considering how front heavy they are because of the required engine position for a proper quattro setup. Especially considering theyre AWD, Oversteer is rarely ever a concern in a Quattro vehicle.
Most Audis are notorious for understeer considering how front heavy they are because of the required engine position for a proper quattro setup. Especially considering theyre AWD, Oversteer is rarely ever a concern in a Quattro vehicle.
Makes sense. For the purposes of this thread though I think the debate is do you make up for added understeer with a staggered setup by having more rubber across all four tires (or just two in the back depending on your original setup) and a shorter sidewall?
For the record, I have a base so not sure I can go fast enough for any of this to matter!
Makes sense. For the purposes of this thread though I think the debate is do you make up for added understeer with a staggered setup by having more rubber across all four tires (or just two in the back depending on your original setup) and a shorter sidewall?
For the record, I have a base so not sure I can go fast enough for any of this to matter!
Yes I agree with you. I wouldn't put a staggered setup on the cayenne at all, regardless of if it was wider in the front or the back. Too many pros to keeping all my setups square.
I find that the 958 tends to want to understeer (push) with the OEM setup of equal sized tires at all 4 corners - I'd imagine a staggered setup would make it more pronounced.
It'd depend a lot on the tire and suspension setup. I've thrown my '17 GTS around savagely hard in autocross and didn't find it to push excessively, certainly nowhere near what you'd expect out of anything else of this size/weight. And this was on year-old 20" Eagle LS2 rubber with the air suspension option (but no PDCC). I do share your opinion that staggered would likely make it worse.
Swapped the wheels yesterday and very happy with the outcome. Handling is noticeably sharper, looks much better from every angle (especially the back).
Also I think all the concerns about staggered setups on AWD is overblown. Just walked by a brand new Cayenne with 305s on the rear and 285s on the front, as they came from the factory.
Actually looks almost identical to the setup I have. These are OEM spec’d staggered setup on the 9Y0.
Just walked by a brand new Cayenne with 305s on the rear and 285s on the front, as they came from the factory. These are OEM spec’d staggered setup on the 9Y0.
Gosh, it's almost as if a setup designed by factory engineers would have some magical ability to deal with the setup properly.
It's your wallet's funeral, go forth and wreck your drivetrain. Just don't pretend that's the same thing as a properly engineered setup.
Gosh, it's almost as if a setup designed by factory engineers would have some magical ability to deal with the setup properly.
It's your wallet's funeral, go forth and wreck your drivetrain. Just don't pretend that's the same thing as a properly engineered setup.
Not sure I follow...prior generation Cayennes ran staggered setups from the factory. Following generation Cayenne' run staggered setups from the factory. Pretty much every other AWD Porsche offers staggered setups from the factory. But for some reason Cayennes made from 2011-2018 will spontaneously combust because the rear tires are 1.2" wider than than the fronts and rolling diameters are statistically identical?
If you have a general issue with Porsche engineering, great, but this ain't your thread.
On a thread-related note: Seems that the same wheel/tire on a heavier vehicle calls for a higher PSI; since I'm running a base cayenne, I figure I should conform to the PSI appropriately scaled to the GVW - i.e. lower pressure?
Not sure I follow...prior generation Cayennes ran staggered setups from the factory. Following generation Cayenne' run staggered setups from the factory. Pretty much every other AWD Porsche offers staggered setups from the factory. But for some reason Cayennes made from 2011-2018 will spontaneously combust because the rear tires are 1.2" wider than than the fronts and rolling diameters are statistically identical?
If you have a general issue with Porsche engineering, great, but this ain't your thread.
That someone raises an issue that conflicts with your assumptions doesn't make it not their thread.
But, like I mentioned, feel free to set yourself up for the drivetrain repair expenses. I'm out.
07-13-2020, 06:23 PM
