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Looking at a 2016 CTTS with 140K miles, $37K. Craziness to consider it? Not many high mileage comps around to know what a decent price is.
Not sure if transfer case has been replaced. I'm a bit nervous about what might happen with a high mileage luxury vehicle.
PPI would be in order, but IMO that's not necessarily going to tell you what might happen in the next year or two.
How long do PCCB rotors last?
Seems a little steep for those miles. And unless you’re set on the V6, you might consider the 958.1 w/ the V8. I don’t think the transfer case was an issue in the Gen 2 CTT’s. Any records from previous owners and Carfax would be helpful. I’ve read that the PCCB rotors are basically forever but that might be bad info. Go look at BaT (bringatrailer.com) sales history for Cayennes as a reference. As with any high mileage luxury SUV, things could break or need attention. Lots of people here will have horror stories of what they’ve spent to stay on the road. But there’s others that will have more miles, have done nothing more than routine maintenance and thoroughly enjoyed their ride. Best thing I ever did was find a reliable Indy shop for service. They’re less expensive than the dealer and you don’t have to wait months for an appointment. However, even common things (brake job, tranny service, valve cover gaskets) will be expensive. Good luck to you 🤞
Seems a little steep for those miles. And unless you’re set on the V6, you might consider the 958.1 w/ the V8. I don’t think the transfer case was an issue in the Gen 2 CTT’s. Any records from previous owners and Carfax would be helpful. I’ve read that the PCCB rotors are basically forever but that might be bad info. Go look at BaT (bringatrailer.com) sales history for Cayennes as a reference. As with any high mileage luxury SUV, things could break or need attention. Lots of people here will have horror stories of what they’ve spent to stay on the road. But there’s others that will have more miles, have done nothing more than routine maintenance and thoroughly enjoyed their ride. Best thing I ever did was find a reliable Indy shop for service. They’re less expensive than the dealer and you don’t have to wait months for an appointment. However, even common things (brake job, tranny service, valve cover gaskets) will be expensive. Good luck to you 🤞
Thanks. I also think it is a bit high, but I'm not a great negotiator. It has the 570 HP V8, one of my justifications for getting it is that oddly, I've never owned a V8.
Looking at a 2016 CTTS with 140K miles, $37K. Craziness to consider it? Not many high mileage comps around to know what a decent price is.
Not sure if transfer case has been replaced. I'm a bit nervous about what might happen with a high mileage luxury vehicle.
PPI would be in order, but IMO that's not necessarily going to tell you what might happen in the next year or two.
How long do PCCB rotors last?
I am going to go look at this Cayenne tomorrow. The local dealer in that area could do a PPI, standard charge is something like $350 for a couple hours of checking stuff.
Add compression, leak down, and density check on the PCCB's and it's probably more like $1100 and would take the better part of a day.
For now, I'm going to at least see the car, talk the seller and see if my intuition points me one way or the other.
I looked at and drove the this 2016 CTTS. It is very clean for 143K miles with no signs of damage or repair that I could detect. PPF on front. The PCCB brakes stopped very well.
Visually the rotors look to have a normal amount of crazing. Engine runs smooth, no funny sounds, transmission and shifting feel good. Everything works.
It has fancy 22'" wheels but they have the original 20" RS wheels that I'd probably prefer.
One thing about it - the shop it's at has done some performance mods, which is hard for me to believe you'd want/need with a turbo S.
Forgot the tuner, but I think he said it's 20 PSI, and it has fabspeed exhaust, IPD plenum, cat delete. A little loud for my taste, but fine on highway. It does have an O2 CEL.
Seller said they could put it back to stock, both exhaust and tune. Are tunes common on these?
OK, I have a really dumb question. How do I tell what rotor size is on this 2016 CTTS with PCCB? The car originally came with the 20" RS Spyder wheels, if that matters,
I have the build sheet and option list, and I can't tell. On these forums, I get confused about whether they might be 410 mm or 380 mm at front.
My local independent shop pulled up the VIN and said it looks like 380 mm, but again, I keep reading 410 mm on CTTS.
I don't have complete pics of all the rotors, but one has the code below on it. Any help is appreciated, the PPI indicated rear rotors at 29.95 mm with discard limit at 29.7 mm.
Front rotors were at 40.15 mm but no density measurement done so not sure how close that is to limit.
I'd suggest you take your time and read the following thread and reach your own conclusions....
Thanks, Gus. I had read that thread a few weeks ago, but it is good to re-read it now that I have a little more info and understanding thanks to the forum here.
It has very good info in it. Some summary of where I'm at follows.
The 2016 CTTS comes with 420 mm front and 370 mm rear rotors. I stopped at P-dealer and got the parts lists for the brake assemblies.
Front rotors are 958-351-031-21 left and 958-351-032-21 right and are list price $5801.72 at the moment.
Rear rotors are 958-352-031-01 left and 958-352-032-01 right and are list price $4490.71.
The parts guy indicated that a reasonable discount of 20-30% would be possible, which frankly would be surprising.
If you optimistically assume a 25% discount, it would be $4350 for fronts and $3368 for rears for a total of $15.4K.
The PPI for my car did not check density, but they measured front rotor thickness at 40.15 mm and rear at 29.95 mm.
Per the last post in the thread that Gus linked https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...nd-tear-4.html, the fronts are 40 mm +/- 0.1 mm when new, and rears 30 mm +/- 0.1 when new.
Discard limits are given as 37.7 mm for fronts and 29.7 mm for rear.
It does not make complete sense to me that the rear would have only 0.3 mm of life (30 mm new minus 29.7 mm discard limit) whereas the fronts have 2,3 mm, but presumably the fronts take much more load.
On this car, you could almost conclude the rotors have hardly worn, with the thicknesses almost the same as when new.
This also does not seem to make sense; after 143K miles, you'd really think they are about done or have significant wear.
Steel conversion seems bothersome. Rotors, calipers, and pads would need replacing, and maybe some other associated bits.
That strikes me as a lot of work, though it would probably cost less than half as much as new PCCB rotors.
I'm about in the same place as Gus was. The car checks all the boxes, but the PCCB brakes are really a major concern.
More to come ...
@Rootwitch : being that the vehicle you are looking at appears to have the "version 2" of the CCBs, I would ask the technicians to exclusively measure the discs with the Proceq tool. That is the only way to know exactly how far gone they are (wear percentage). How much life is left in them cannot be determined as driving characteristics are nearly impossible to replicate from one person to another.
I ended up with a 2013 GTS with steel rotors (not even the Turbo sized ones) and I have yet to find myself in a situation where I've contemplated "if I only had Turbo brakes"..... As stated before, I absolutely have nothing against the PCCB option, but taking into account the cost to service them, perhaps it's best suited to a Porsche model whose value is vastly superior to that of a 958 Cayenne. Simple math should tell you what you'd rather have: given very similar market value for a vehicle with or without PCCB, which would you rather have (assuming maintenance cost comes into question...)?: one that has a ±$1K serviceable item (pads and rotors from FCP Euro or some other online vendor), or one that has a ±$15K serviceable item? By the time you need to replace the $1K item enough times to equal the $15K one, the vehicle could very well be in a condition which requires considering getting something else....
@Rootwitch : I ended up with a 2013 GTS with steel rotors (not even the Turbo sized ones) and I have yet to find myself in a situation where I've contemplated "if I only had Turbo brakes"..... As stated before, I absolutely have nothing against the PCCB option, but taking into account the cost to service them, perhaps it's best suited to a Porsche model whose value is vastly superior to that of a 958 Cayenne. Simple math should tell you what you'd rather have: given very similar market value for a vehicle with or without PCCB, which would you rather have (assuming maintenance cost comes into question...)?: one that has a ±$1K serviceable item (pads and rotors from FCP Euro or some other online vendor), or one that has a ±$15K serviceable item? By the time you need to replace the $1K item enough times to equal the $15K one, the vehicle could very well be in a condition which requires considering getting something else....
Right. It's not so much paralysis by analysis for me, but logic vs emotion.
Logically, why would I even think about buying this CTTS which has the PCCB issue, maybe transfer case (no indication there), and whatever other $$ maintenance, and will get 14 mpg on premium to boot.
But marketing is powerful, and the car has all the right options, color, features, very clean etc. There will be other nice care, of course. Or I can just keep driving my minivan lol.
Rootwitch I just purchased a 2016 CTTS with 80k miles for 48k if that gives you a data point. I thought the price was reasonable given it had all the options I wanted (roof rails, ACC, 18 way seats, burmester, etc.). All 958.2 Turbo S' will have PCCB. Initially I was concerned about maintenance on these expensive items. So far all I've done is replaced the rear pads (I think they were originals). The front pads will be next. They are not cheap (600ish for the front 500ish for the rear after shipping). The rotors themselves don't wear like typical steel rotors where the thickness degrades to the point they go below a minimum discard spec. The rotors apparently wear "from the inside out" due to excessive heat. The only way to truly check the wear is with the multi thousand dollar carboteq tool at Porsche and the rotors should be removed from the vehicle to do the check. Barring that, there are also three wear indication circles roughly 120 degrees apart on the rotor surface, and you can also weigh them to make sure they meet the minimum weight spec. If you do end up buying it you are in for a real treat. The power, refinement, and overall capabilities are intoxicating. You'll also probably want to invest in mr12volt system (upgrades to apply carplay/android auto).
The price seem a little steep for the mileage, but I wouldn't be afraid of it for the right price. It just means that whoever drove it, enjoyed it and likely didn't abuse it too much.
A very common theme for these cars is to have a lease owner, then a second owner and then 7 more owners switching every 6 moths to a year, that is the kind of history that would turn me away from one.
I'm looking at it again tomorrow. Before the PPI we informally agreed on $32K. I had tried for $30K but could not get that.
But with PPI results I'll see if I can get a bit better deal.
05-11-2024, 11:28 PM
Looking at CTTS
