Diesel - Trans, Diffs, Transfer case flush
12-09-2021, 02:16 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
@aututto, small favor, can you edit your original post and remove the DTF-1/TF-0870 reference. Lots of people read the forums and without reading the whole thread may end up with the wrong fluid for their V6 or Diesel Cayennes.
Just to set the record straight:
Just to set the record straight:
- Cayenne V6 (base) and Diesel use straight synthetic 75w-90 gear oil in their transfer cases. I'm a fan of Valvoline for the gear oils.
- Cayenne S/Turbo, V8 and Turbo use the fancy DTF-1/TF-0870 fluid in their transfer cases.
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Umber (12-09-2021)
12-09-2021, 03:34 PM
#17
10-11-2023, 10:44 PM
#18
Where is everyone pulling this data? Ravenol is probably incorrect but without corroboration with VW and Audi, TC box oils are still a gray area. I used the G052536A2 "transfer box oil" as it is specified for Audi Q7 TDI and VW Touareg TDI. Seems also correct for non-locking rear diff cars as they seem to also use a (the?) torsen center diff as well. Again, Ravenol might be wrong but what I'd like to point out that no where on either the Porsche or Audi/VW OEM TC oils is the weight called out. So please, if anyone can point us to a reference that calls out those oil weights from either VWAG or Porsche then show us. Otherwise I think a lot of people are going to be left confused.
10-12-2023, 02:39 PM
#19
Where is everyone pulling this data? Ravenol is probably incorrect but without corroboration with VW and Audi, TC box oils are still a gray area. I used the G052536A2 "transfer box oil" as it is specified for Audi Q7 TDI and VW Touareg TDI. Seems also correct for non-locking rear diff cars as they seem to also use a (the?) torsen center diff as well. Again, Ravenol might be wrong but what I'd like to point out that no where on either the Porsche or Audi/VW OEM TC oils is the weight called out. So please, if anyone can point us to a reference that calls out those oil weights from either VWAG or Porsche then show us. Otherwise I think a lot of people are going to be left confused.
But lets establish some baseline facts:
- There are 3 different types of transfer cases on the 958 Cayenne
- For Base Gasoline V6 and Gasoline V8s - 95834101008, 958341010HX, 95834101303 and maybe 0C2341012K and 0C2341041K - PL72-ATC
- Older than 2014: https://awd.tech/products/pl72atc-ng...1k-95834101303
- 2014 and newer: https://awd.tech/products/pl72atc-re...08-958341010hx
- Parts diagram: https://awd.tech/apps/catalog/transm...%20ATC-Porsche
- Fluid type DTF1/Shell TF-0870 is correct.
- For diesels V6 (US) and the hybrid - 95834102012 - PL72-T(orsen)
- These don't really fail so AWD.tech doesn't sell a remanufactured case
- This transfer case doesn't have an electronic motor attached to the side but otherwise all TC's looks similar.
- Fluid spec is ???
- https://awd.tech/apps/catalog/transm...72%20T-Porsche
- For Base Gasoline V6 and Gasoline V8s - 95834101008, 958341010HX, 95834101303 and maybe 0C2341012K and 0C2341041K - PL72-ATC
So, does that mean the two TC's take different fluid? Maybe? Maybe not? Like you mentioned, I can't find, online at least, directly from Porsche any guidance on fluid types for the different TC's. I think DTF1/Shell TF-0870 is the default people go to for the non-torsen PL72-ATC TC and at this point has proven through time and use to be the correct fluid for the PL72-ATC. So, lets ignore the PL72-ATC, the real-world testing has given us the answer to the correct fluid.
Instead, lets focus on the Torsen based PL72-T. To find the correct fluid there, lets reference Torsen's actual guidance: https://torsen.com/lubricant-part-2/
As you can see, directly from Torsen, they say their components aren't that picky. But that article doesn't specifically call out a Type 3/Type C torsen diff - the kind of Torsen in VW/Audi/Porsche products. The internet seems to think straight gear oil is correct for the T-3 Type C torsen. Type C Torsen's are used in Lexus GX's/4Runners, land cruisers,etc, they all spec gear oil ....not definitive or conclusive.
Learn more about the Torsen types/quattro: https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-...attro-3050898/
Learn more about Touareg and the transfer case types: http://blogs.youwheel.com/2015/02/14...ensive-review/
3. For non-US markets, there are two types of 4Motion system on Touareg. One is called “4Motion” and another is called “4XMotion” (in some markets, it is also called “4Motion Terrain Tech”);
4. 4Motion on 2nd-gen Touareg: it uses a TORSEN Type C center differential, 40:60 default front/rear torque split, it does not has the manual full locking feature; also rear locking differential is unavailable. Rear wheel limited slip is implemented through ABS;
5. 4XMotion on 2nd-gen Touareg: it is the same as the 4Motion in 1st-gen Touareg with the locking rear differential option;
6. In US market, VW does not sell the 4XMotion. All 2nd-gen Touaregs sold in US is the 4Motion mentioned in the above point #4.
4. 4Motion on 2nd-gen Touareg: it uses a TORSEN Type C center differential, 40:60 default front/rear torque split, it does not has the manual full locking feature; also rear locking differential is unavailable. Rear wheel limited slip is implemented through ABS;
5. 4XMotion on 2nd-gen Touareg: it is the same as the 4Motion in 1st-gen Touareg with the locking rear differential option;
6. In US market, VW does not sell the 4XMotion. All 2nd-gen Touaregs sold in US is the 4Motion mentioned in the above point #4.
So lets look for something more precise, how about this doc from VW:
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...69352-3639.pdf
Huh, seems to say that all models of touaregs should use G 052 515 A2 - This fluid is equivalent to DTF1/Shell TF-0870 fluid....so VW says to use the DTF1 not gear oil in their transfer cases. If our assumption is that the VW diesel transfer case is identical to the Porsche diesel transfer case then it would be fair to say that Cayenne Diesels should use DTF1, too.
So, what is the right answer? Apparently both. Maybe the takeaway here is that if you have a torsen type transfer case, use whatever fluid makes you feel comfortable.
Both DTF1 and gear oil are valid per Torsen themselves. Audi specs gear oil for some torsen based TC's vs DTF1 for others. As a forum community, I think we've pushed straight gear oil for the torsen diffs but that guidance is apparently not specifically correct or incorrect.
In final, for Torsen based components, I think the most important fact is what Torsen says specifically: "Essentially, the heavier, thicker, or more viscous that the oil is, the better it lubricates (generally). It leaves a heavier film adhered to the surfaces being lubricated." DTF1 is thinner than 75w-90 Gear oil which is thinner than 75w140 gear oil. Personally, if I had a torsen, I would opt for the 75w-90 as a good balance between fuel economy and gear protection and widely used in other vehicles with good results. Lastly, this fuel economy aspect is why I think DTF1 may actually be specced for some of the torsen based VW/Audi products but that's pure speculation.
TLDR: For Torsen based transfer cases:
- Official language from VW specifies DTF1/TF-0870
- Torsen specifies gear oil ("For our own R&D work, we use Chevron Supreme LS 80W90 as a “house” oil.").
- Other Torsen-based cars (Lexus/Toyota GX, 4Runner, Land Cruiser, etc) specify 75w-90 gear oil.
Last edited by AnAlbumCover; 10-12-2023 at 05:30 PM.
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03-26-2024, 01:57 PM
#23
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...ial-fluid.html
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