Anyone With 958 Cayenne S running a Tune
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
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Hey Gang,
I'm new to the forum but not Porsche, and just recently purchased a 2011 Cayenne S with 60k on the clock, Meticulously maintained and just had the Variocam Bolts replaced last month, covered by recall. It's currently sitting in the garage getting copious amounts of Wax applied to it as I wait for some nicer weather to sell my current non P-Car daily. In any event, after a few drives I had some questions for anyone running a Tune or anyone with any experience running a tune... (The car is currently bone stock)
This Cayenne is equipped with PSE and I like that when in 'Sport' mode, the car seems to remain in first gear longer when starting out and it makes pulling out of intersections and the driveway a lot easier and safer as opposed to lugging second gear, but I don't necessarily like being in sport mode with a colder engine and it holding gears for longer. For anyone running a tune with PSE, is there still a difference in and out of sport mode with the tune? Or Does the sport button now just become the 'Loud' Button?
I'm curious what type of improved driving experience and throttle response is achieved by those running the tune, should there be any members who are doing so. I see a lot of feed back on the tunes, but most are running either a Diesel, GTS with Turbos, or just the Monster Turbo and Turbo S Cayenne's (who get the best bang for your buck with the tune). I have experience with tuning cars, but they've always been turbo'd and manual (This Cayenne is neither of those). I understand there are sizeable performance enhancements with the tune as well, even on the naturally aspirated engines, but I was more so interested in hearing about the driving experience of anyone with a tune and how the Sport button changes the experience. If anyone's running a tune, I'd love to know which one, from what I've gathered, FabSpeed and VRTune are the most popular.
I look forward to posting some pictures when the weather gets a wee bit nicer. Cheers!
- The Kid
I'm new to the forum but not Porsche, and just recently purchased a 2011 Cayenne S with 60k on the clock, Meticulously maintained and just had the Variocam Bolts replaced last month, covered by recall. It's currently sitting in the garage getting copious amounts of Wax applied to it as I wait for some nicer weather to sell my current non P-Car daily. In any event, after a few drives I had some questions for anyone running a Tune or anyone with any experience running a tune... (The car is currently bone stock)
This Cayenne is equipped with PSE and I like that when in 'Sport' mode, the car seems to remain in first gear longer when starting out and it makes pulling out of intersections and the driveway a lot easier and safer as opposed to lugging second gear, but I don't necessarily like being in sport mode with a colder engine and it holding gears for longer. For anyone running a tune with PSE, is there still a difference in and out of sport mode with the tune? Or Does the sport button now just become the 'Loud' Button?
I'm curious what type of improved driving experience and throttle response is achieved by those running the tune, should there be any members who are doing so. I see a lot of feed back on the tunes, but most are running either a Diesel, GTS with Turbos, or just the Monster Turbo and Turbo S Cayenne's (who get the best bang for your buck with the tune). I have experience with tuning cars, but they've always been turbo'd and manual (This Cayenne is neither of those). I understand there are sizeable performance enhancements with the tune as well, even on the naturally aspirated engines, but I was more so interested in hearing about the driving experience of anyone with a tune and how the Sport button changes the experience. If anyone's running a tune, I'd love to know which one, from what I've gathered, FabSpeed and VRTune are the most popular.
I look forward to posting some pictures when the weather gets a wee bit nicer. Cheers!
- The Kid
#2
Intermediate
Thread Starter
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Read around on 6Speed and found some great feedback on the tunes, exactly what I'm looking for, a little more juice and better throttle response with improved MPG. Since I see a decent amount of clicks and no comments, I'll be the guinea pig with my Pig.
Ordered Fabspeed ECU Tune + Fabspeed Secondary Cat ByPass. Willing to pay a little more for Fabspeed fitment (no rattling) and a tune that will account for secondary bypasses once installed. I will try and post before and after videos of both secondary cat bypass and ECU tune results as well as a small writeup.
For anyone else interested, the CAYENNE10 coupon is still valid at Fabspeed for 10% off.
Cheers,
The Kid
Ordered Fabspeed ECU Tune + Fabspeed Secondary Cat ByPass. Willing to pay a little more for Fabspeed fitment (no rattling) and a tune that will account for secondary bypasses once installed. I will try and post before and after videos of both secondary cat bypass and ECU tune results as well as a small writeup.
For anyone else interested, the CAYENNE10 coupon is still valid at Fabspeed for 10% off.
Cheers,
The Kid
#6
Intermediate
Thread Starter
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ECU Tuner arrives tmrw. I will try and get the stock reading back to Alec ASAP once I get it and hopefully he can turn it around to me by Thursday evening before I head back for the holiday. I plan on making a trip home for the easter weekend and hopefully will have the tune installed for the lengthy trip back so I can get a good feel for it. Secondary By Pass appointment scheduled for Friday morning as well.
Stay ‘Tuned’
Stay ‘Tuned’
#7
Rennlist Member
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Tunes on NA engines don't usually yield much. Maybe smooth out the power but as far as gaining more, you won't get much.
But I hope I'm wrong with the Cayenne and subscribed to see the results.
But I hope I'm wrong with the Cayenne and subscribed to see the results.
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#8
Intermediate
Thread Starter
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That’s correct Audi, I don’t expect massive power gains from this and quite frankly don’t even need them. I’m coming from a pretty hopped up car prior to the Cayenne and im finding the power to be just fine. Not going to be winning any drag races with it, but also not going to be made the fool either. With By Pass and Tune I do expect a mild increase in power, but more importantly a smoother power band and more responsive pedal. I think the two mods im doing are slated to add about 35-40hp combined best case scenario.
A small update for the rest of you guys, I have a Mac computer and could not install the MyGenius software on it which was expected. I also tried my work laptop (PC) but installing software is barred on it as I need administrative authority and tried everything in my power to get past it but it’s locked up pretty tight.
This just means the install will be pushed back a few days until I make it to my easter destination and can get access to a PC. The fabspeed gang will hopefully be able to turn this around to me Friday as I’ll be sending it Thursday night. If not, I’ll install it on Monday and then get the write up going. On the bright side I’ll have some more time with the stock tune and exhaust to make a comprehensive write up of the difference.
Sorry for the delay gang, nothings ever easy I suppose.
- The Kid
#9
Intermediate
Thread Starter
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Hey Gang,
Thanks for the patience on the ByPass and Tune Results....
Bypass – Drove around with just this for a couple of days (with no tune). The sound is definitely noticeable, and there are minor power gains seemingly. I was happy to report that there is no drone with this on the highway cruising at about 80. The interior increase in noise is very minimal, hardly noticeable. You can hear the purr a little better under moderate throttle, adds a more muscly tone to the car. Definitely sounds deeper and more raspy.
However, for me personally, the cold start with these was just too much, especially when it was cold like how it is/was here in New England. It can be pretty loud and like an ol' muscle car, but once the choke is off and RPM’s die down it’s not a big deal compared to what it was. Just the first 5 seconds or so of the start up sound like it’s breathing fire. Part of me really enjoyed the sound, but as a working professional who parks in an enclosed Garage, the sound of cold starts was a little much for me, especially after work. Add to that that this Cayenne is my sole daily driver and I decided to remove them. I plan on selling them shortly on the forum, they are essentially brand new. I can attest that fitment of these was great and build quality seemed solid. Power gains there, but minimal. To me it did feel like some additional torque was unlocked when driving around town and giving it some gas. All in all 8-10 hp on a 4,000lb car isn't going to go very noticed, but the sound and placebo-like effect is certainly there.
I tried to make my own video, but found that this particular video was very accurate - especially of the cold/first start.
Tune – This was a pretty easy install and I was happy with my results of this one. Instructions on the Fabspeed site are detailed and accurate. You’ll have to turn the car on and off a couple times in the process so just follow the directions and take it slow.
I was most impressed by the shifts with the new tune, the car seems to shift much quicker and smoother with this compared to stock, and that is not a dig at Porsche and how it was shifting before. Around town driving I noticed that each gear seemed to have a little bit more power with this tune, in particular 3 & 4. I noticed for example going up the hill to the office it seemed like there was a little more juice down-low in the lower gears without needing it to downshift for more power on mild throttle. The throttle response seems improved as well and I would describe the full gear pull as a more linear, building steadily thru the RPM Range with increasingly more strength than before.
Highway / Full Throttle With Tune – This is where the tune shined brightly. In sport mode and Regular mode, the car seemed to be able to differentiate better between wanting just a little more juice to climb a hill or change a lane, and when I wanted some real fire power to bypass. The car seemed to serve me the gear I wanted and needed more often and more accurately which made the car feel a lot more responsive and faster. I've never driven a GTS, but Imagine this is what it would feel like, same in most ways, but just a little more responsive and snappy. Burying your foot in this car was always rewarding but 3rd gear gives you the business now. It pulls hard and smooth all the way to the beginning of the red line and quickly puts you into the next gear giving you continuous power. Other Highway gears felt torquier as well, I was happily impressed.
I’d be very curious to see a stock Cayenne S vs a Tuned S. I’d be willing to bet that the Tuned S would show noticeable improvements over stock, especially in a rolling start drag due to the improved shifts and steady delivery of power. I’d also be curious to see the Tuned S vs a stock GTS. As I said above, I’d be willing to bet that they are near equal, if not giving a slight edge to the Tuned S.
With a NA engine I did not expect the same tune results that I had in the past on Turbo’d cars, but I did achieve my mission of improved throttle response and some slightly better MPG from what I can see in town (negated due to lead foot highway driving). The car feels more agile and I’m pleased with the results (~+20 hp & ~+20lb ft of torque, if not a little more?) and think the tune is easily worth the money, bang for your buck wise. Turn your Cayenne S into a GTS for under $1k.
I’d gladly answer any questions anyone had if you care to post them. To address some of my own, there is still a big difference between sport and non sport. Non sport is still in a hurry to upshift to save gas. Sport seems more eager to hold the gears and keep you in the proper power range. I would say that sport feels more like a true 'sport mode' with this, more aggressive and powerful, but also knows when you just wanna hang out in sport mode for the open exhaust note. I did not get any warning lights or funky things happening post tune, it was an easy install and has ran even smoother ever since. As I understand it, the car begins to learn and adapt with the tune so I’ll be sure to comment if anything changes, for better or worse, if they do.
Due to noise concerns and a small delay on getting the V2 tune file back, I was not able to run the two simultaneously but I imagine it would be pretty special. Fabspeed chat specialist assured me there isn't a need to change the tune with or without the Bypasses for anyone wondering.
Hopefully this helped anyone on the fence or curious.
Cheers,
- The Kid
Thanks for the patience on the ByPass and Tune Results....
Bypass – Drove around with just this for a couple of days (with no tune). The sound is definitely noticeable, and there are minor power gains seemingly. I was happy to report that there is no drone with this on the highway cruising at about 80. The interior increase in noise is very minimal, hardly noticeable. You can hear the purr a little better under moderate throttle, adds a more muscly tone to the car. Definitely sounds deeper and more raspy.
However, for me personally, the cold start with these was just too much, especially when it was cold like how it is/was here in New England. It can be pretty loud and like an ol' muscle car, but once the choke is off and RPM’s die down it’s not a big deal compared to what it was. Just the first 5 seconds or so of the start up sound like it’s breathing fire. Part of me really enjoyed the sound, but as a working professional who parks in an enclosed Garage, the sound of cold starts was a little much for me, especially after work. Add to that that this Cayenne is my sole daily driver and I decided to remove them. I plan on selling them shortly on the forum, they are essentially brand new. I can attest that fitment of these was great and build quality seemed solid. Power gains there, but minimal. To me it did feel like some additional torque was unlocked when driving around town and giving it some gas. All in all 8-10 hp on a 4,000lb car isn't going to go very noticed, but the sound and placebo-like effect is certainly there.
I tried to make my own video, but found that this particular video was very accurate - especially of the cold/first start.
Tune – This was a pretty easy install and I was happy with my results of this one. Instructions on the Fabspeed site are detailed and accurate. You’ll have to turn the car on and off a couple times in the process so just follow the directions and take it slow.
I was most impressed by the shifts with the new tune, the car seems to shift much quicker and smoother with this compared to stock, and that is not a dig at Porsche and how it was shifting before. Around town driving I noticed that each gear seemed to have a little bit more power with this tune, in particular 3 & 4. I noticed for example going up the hill to the office it seemed like there was a little more juice down-low in the lower gears without needing it to downshift for more power on mild throttle. The throttle response seems improved as well and I would describe the full gear pull as a more linear, building steadily thru the RPM Range with increasingly more strength than before.
Highway / Full Throttle With Tune – This is where the tune shined brightly. In sport mode and Regular mode, the car seemed to be able to differentiate better between wanting just a little more juice to climb a hill or change a lane, and when I wanted some real fire power to bypass. The car seemed to serve me the gear I wanted and needed more often and more accurately which made the car feel a lot more responsive and faster. I've never driven a GTS, but Imagine this is what it would feel like, same in most ways, but just a little more responsive and snappy. Burying your foot in this car was always rewarding but 3rd gear gives you the business now. It pulls hard and smooth all the way to the beginning of the red line and quickly puts you into the next gear giving you continuous power. Other Highway gears felt torquier as well, I was happily impressed.
I’d be very curious to see a stock Cayenne S vs a Tuned S. I’d be willing to bet that the Tuned S would show noticeable improvements over stock, especially in a rolling start drag due to the improved shifts and steady delivery of power. I’d also be curious to see the Tuned S vs a stock GTS. As I said above, I’d be willing to bet that they are near equal, if not giving a slight edge to the Tuned S.
With a NA engine I did not expect the same tune results that I had in the past on Turbo’d cars, but I did achieve my mission of improved throttle response and some slightly better MPG from what I can see in town (negated due to lead foot highway driving). The car feels more agile and I’m pleased with the results (~+20 hp & ~+20lb ft of torque, if not a little more?) and think the tune is easily worth the money, bang for your buck wise. Turn your Cayenne S into a GTS for under $1k.
I’d gladly answer any questions anyone had if you care to post them. To address some of my own, there is still a big difference between sport and non sport. Non sport is still in a hurry to upshift to save gas. Sport seems more eager to hold the gears and keep you in the proper power range. I would say that sport feels more like a true 'sport mode' with this, more aggressive and powerful, but also knows when you just wanna hang out in sport mode for the open exhaust note. I did not get any warning lights or funky things happening post tune, it was an easy install and has ran even smoother ever since. As I understand it, the car begins to learn and adapt with the tune so I’ll be sure to comment if anything changes, for better or worse, if they do.
Due to noise concerns and a small delay on getting the V2 tune file back, I was not able to run the two simultaneously but I imagine it would be pretty special. Fabspeed chat specialist assured me there isn't a need to change the tune with or without the Bypasses for anyone wondering.
Hopefully this helped anyone on the fence or curious.
Cheers,
- The Kid
#10
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Hey Gang,
Thanks for the patience on the ByPass and Tune Results....
Bypass – Drove around with just this for a couple of days (with no tune). The sound is definitely noticeable, and there are minor power gains seemingly. I was happy to report that there is no drone with this on the highway cruising at about 80. The interior increase in noise is very minimal, hardly noticeable. You can hear the purr a little better under moderate throttle, adds a more muscly tone to the car. Definitely sounds deeper and more raspy.
However, for me personally, the cold start with these was just too much, especially when it was cold like how it is/was here in New England. It can be pretty loud and like an ol' muscle car, but once the choke is off and RPM’s die down it’s not a big deal compared to what it was. Just the first 5 seconds or so of the start up sound like it’s breathing fire. Part of me really enjoyed the sound, but as a working professional who parks in an enclosed Garage, the sound of cold starts was a little much for me, especially after work. Add to that that this Cayenne is my sole daily driver and I decided to remove them. I plan on selling them shortly on the forum, they are essentially brand new. I can attest that fitment of these was great and build quality seemed solid. Power gains there, but minimal. To me it did feel like some additional torque was unlocked when driving around town and giving it some gas. All in all 8-10 hp on a 4,000lb car isn't going to go very noticed, but the sound and placebo-like effect is certainly there.
I tried to make my own video, but found that this particular video was very accurate - especially of the cold/first start. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOtjvsh-MEM
Tune – This was a pretty easy install and I was happy with my results of this one. Instructions on the Fabspeed site are detailed and accurate. You’ll have to turn the car on and off a couple times in the process so just follow the directions and take it slow.
I was most impressed by the shifts with the new tune, the car seems to shift much quicker and smoother with this compared to stock, and that is not a dig at Porsche and how it was shifting before. Around town driving I noticed that each gear seemed to have a little bit more power with this tune, in particular 3 & 4. I noticed for example going up the hill to the office it seemed like there was a little more juice down-low in the lower gears without needing it to downshift for more power on mild throttle. The throttle response seems improved as well and I would describe the full gear pull as a more linear, building steadily thru the RPM Range with increasingly more strength than before.
Highway / Full Throttle With Tune – This is where the tune shined brightly. In sport mode and Regular mode, the car seemed to be able to differentiate better between wanting just a little more juice to climb a hill or change a lane, and when I wanted some real fire power to bypass. The car seemed to serve me the gear I wanted and needed more often and more accurately which made the car feel a lot more responsive and faster. I've never driven a GTS, but Imagine this is what it would feel like, same in most ways, but just a little more responsive and snappy. Burying your foot in this car was always rewarding but 3rd gear gives you the business now. It pulls hard and smooth all the way to the beginning of the red line and quickly puts you into the next gear giving you continuous power. Other Highway gears felt torquier as well, I was happily impressed.
I’d be very curious to see a stock Cayenne S vs a Tuned S. I’d be willing to bet that the Tuned S would show noticeable improvements over stock, especially in a rolling start drag due to the improved shifts and steady delivery of power. I’d also be curious to see the Tuned S vs a stock GTS. As I said above, I’d be willing to bet that they are near equal, if not giving a slight edge to the Tuned S.
With a NA engine I did not expect the same tune results that I had in the past on Turbo’d cars, but I did achieve my mission of improved throttle response and some slightly better MPG from what I can see in town (negated due to lead foot highway driving). The car feels more agile and I’m pleased with the results (~+20 hp & ~+20lb ft of torque, if not a little more?) and think the tune is easily worth the money, bang for your buck wise. Turn your Cayenne S into a GTS for under $1k.
I’d gladly answer any questions anyone had if you care to post them. To address some of my own, there is still a big difference between sport and non sport. Non sport is still in a hurry to upshift to save gas. Sport seems more eager to hold the gears and keep you in the proper power range. I would say that sport feels more like a true 'sport mode' with this, more aggressive and powerful, but also knows when you just wanna hang out in sport mode for the open exhaust note. I did not get any warning lights or funky things happening post tune, it was an easy install and has ran even smoother ever since. As I understand it, the car begins to learn and adapt with the tune so I’ll be sure to comment if anything changes, for better or worse, if they do.
Due to noise concerns and a small delay on getting the V2 tune file back, I was not able to run the two simultaneously but I imagine it would be pretty special. Fabspeed chat specialist assured me there isn't a need to change the tune with or without the Bypasses for anyone wondering.
Hopefully this helped anyone on the fence or curious.
Cheers,
- The Kid
Thanks for the patience on the ByPass and Tune Results....
Bypass – Drove around with just this for a couple of days (with no tune). The sound is definitely noticeable, and there are minor power gains seemingly. I was happy to report that there is no drone with this on the highway cruising at about 80. The interior increase in noise is very minimal, hardly noticeable. You can hear the purr a little better under moderate throttle, adds a more muscly tone to the car. Definitely sounds deeper and more raspy.
However, for me personally, the cold start with these was just too much, especially when it was cold like how it is/was here in New England. It can be pretty loud and like an ol' muscle car, but once the choke is off and RPM’s die down it’s not a big deal compared to what it was. Just the first 5 seconds or so of the start up sound like it’s breathing fire. Part of me really enjoyed the sound, but as a working professional who parks in an enclosed Garage, the sound of cold starts was a little much for me, especially after work. Add to that that this Cayenne is my sole daily driver and I decided to remove them. I plan on selling them shortly on the forum, they are essentially brand new. I can attest that fitment of these was great and build quality seemed solid. Power gains there, but minimal. To me it did feel like some additional torque was unlocked when driving around town and giving it some gas. All in all 8-10 hp on a 4,000lb car isn't going to go very noticed, but the sound and placebo-like effect is certainly there.
I tried to make my own video, but found that this particular video was very accurate - especially of the cold/first start. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOtjvsh-MEM
Tune – This was a pretty easy install and I was happy with my results of this one. Instructions on the Fabspeed site are detailed and accurate. You’ll have to turn the car on and off a couple times in the process so just follow the directions and take it slow.
I was most impressed by the shifts with the new tune, the car seems to shift much quicker and smoother with this compared to stock, and that is not a dig at Porsche and how it was shifting before. Around town driving I noticed that each gear seemed to have a little bit more power with this tune, in particular 3 & 4. I noticed for example going up the hill to the office it seemed like there was a little more juice down-low in the lower gears without needing it to downshift for more power on mild throttle. The throttle response seems improved as well and I would describe the full gear pull as a more linear, building steadily thru the RPM Range with increasingly more strength than before.
Highway / Full Throttle With Tune – This is where the tune shined brightly. In sport mode and Regular mode, the car seemed to be able to differentiate better between wanting just a little more juice to climb a hill or change a lane, and when I wanted some real fire power to bypass. The car seemed to serve me the gear I wanted and needed more often and more accurately which made the car feel a lot more responsive and faster. I've never driven a GTS, but Imagine this is what it would feel like, same in most ways, but just a little more responsive and snappy. Burying your foot in this car was always rewarding but 3rd gear gives you the business now. It pulls hard and smooth all the way to the beginning of the red line and quickly puts you into the next gear giving you continuous power. Other Highway gears felt torquier as well, I was happily impressed.
I’d be very curious to see a stock Cayenne S vs a Tuned S. I’d be willing to bet that the Tuned S would show noticeable improvements over stock, especially in a rolling start drag due to the improved shifts and steady delivery of power. I’d also be curious to see the Tuned S vs a stock GTS. As I said above, I’d be willing to bet that they are near equal, if not giving a slight edge to the Tuned S.
With a NA engine I did not expect the same tune results that I had in the past on Turbo’d cars, but I did achieve my mission of improved throttle response and some slightly better MPG from what I can see in town (negated due to lead foot highway driving). The car feels more agile and I’m pleased with the results (~+20 hp & ~+20lb ft of torque, if not a little more?) and think the tune is easily worth the money, bang for your buck wise. Turn your Cayenne S into a GTS for under $1k.
I’d gladly answer any questions anyone had if you care to post them. To address some of my own, there is still a big difference between sport and non sport. Non sport is still in a hurry to upshift to save gas. Sport seems more eager to hold the gears and keep you in the proper power range. I would say that sport feels more like a true 'sport mode' with this, more aggressive and powerful, but also knows when you just wanna hang out in sport mode for the open exhaust note. I did not get any warning lights or funky things happening post tune, it was an easy install and has ran even smoother ever since. As I understand it, the car begins to learn and adapt with the tune so I’ll be sure to comment if anything changes, for better or worse, if they do.
Due to noise concerns and a small delay on getting the V2 tune file back, I was not able to run the two simultaneously but I imagine it would be pretty special. Fabspeed chat specialist assured me there isn't a need to change the tune with or without the Bypasses for anyone wondering.
Hopefully this helped anyone on the fence or curious.
Cheers,
- The Kid
#11
![Default](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif)
also the MPG improvement? Anything realized? I was doubting anything there and truthfully I didn’t but this for the MPG, but wondering….
Thanks for being the tester!!!
#12
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I put the Softronic tune on mine and I am very pleased. I test drove a 2021 GTS last week and while a very nice vehicle I will be happy with my 17 S with a tune for quite a while.
#13
Rennlist Member
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Same here. Slapped a Softronic tune on my '16 GTS and am enormously pleased with the results. My review is here: https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...e-3-6l-tt.html
Anecdotally, I was looking at specs for the Lambo Aventador this week, and noticed that it's V12 makes less torque than my V6. Porsche really knows how to squeeze every last drop of performance out of displacement.
Anecdotally, I was looking at specs for the Lambo Aventador this week, and noticed that it's V12 makes less torque than my V6. Porsche really knows how to squeeze every last drop of performance out of displacement.
#14
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Can you share with us your experience with the Softtronic tune? I am considering, but hesitant due to the lack of reviews/reputation this company and tune has. Its also the highest priced tune I've come across. Any feedback would be great
#15
Rennlist Member
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Softronic has one of the more established names when it comes to tuning Porsches, and they do a lot of work for Porsche Car Club of America. I shopped at least 6 different tunes, and found them to be midrange. Many of the local performance shops in the greater San Francisco area wanted $2,000+. The great thing about Softronic is you get to keep the handheld unit, which makes flashing back a cinch.