V6 confirmed coming to US in early 2004
08-28-2003, 05:44 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by EuroCarNut
I think the V6 will reach a whole new group of buyers. Whether they are buyers that we want or not, they will still add to Porsche's bottom line, which in this day and age (soft economy and increased competition) is more important than ever. I just wish they would wave back ;-)
I think the V6 will reach a whole new group of buyers. Whether they are buyers that we want or not, they will still add to Porsche's bottom line, which in this day and age (soft economy and increased competition) is more important than ever. I just wish they would wave back ;-)
That is the challenge.... my .02
08-28-2003, 05:52 PM
#17
Instructor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dallas
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Torags,
They might not go after the hard core offroaders, but given a product that could be as capable as a LR Discovery (the Touareg proves that) and at a price point where people are not as worried about tearing things up, this just might prove a good alternative to the Discoverys and Land Cruisers out there for the trail. Not an intended goal, but it could happen.
They might not go after the hard core offroaders, but given a product that could be as capable as a LR Discovery (the Touareg proves that) and at a price point where people are not as worried about tearing things up, this just might prove a good alternative to the Discoverys and Land Cruisers out there for the trail. Not an intended goal, but it could happen.
08-28-2003, 08:43 PM
#18
I think if the Cayenne is going to be a success they have to offer the six. Yes they're diluting the brand a little more but IMO they already did the major damage by making the thing in the first place; they further diluted it with half truths (aka lies) and terrible advertising.
Now that they're committed they need a lower cost version to compete with the 3.0 X5 and ML320 (which I'm sure are the competitive models most purchased) and hopefully recoup some of the costs that were (according to official pronouncements) already recouped.
For their sake I hope they don't saddle the dealers with thousands of six bangers and pronounce the Cayenne "sold out" for the second year in a row.
And besides- it offers a manual transmission and is probably (in real world situations where you really wouldn't notice- too much anyway- the lack of power) a lot of fun to drive. For an SUV.
Just don't go challenging your neighbor and his new Ford Explorer to a stoplight grand prix..... Oh wait.. that last thought kind of said it all didn't it?
Now that they're committed they need a lower cost version to compete with the 3.0 X5 and ML320 (which I'm sure are the competitive models most purchased) and hopefully recoup some of the costs that were (according to official pronouncements) already recouped.
For their sake I hope they don't saddle the dealers with thousands of six bangers and pronounce the Cayenne "sold out" for the second year in a row.
And besides- it offers a manual transmission and is probably (in real world situations where you really wouldn't notice- too much anyway- the lack of power) a lot of fun to drive. For an SUV.
Just don't go challenging your neighbor and his new Ford Explorer to a stoplight grand prix..... Oh wait.. that last thought kind of said it all didn't it?
08-28-2003, 09:06 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by George from MD
For their sake I hope they don't saddle the dealers with thousands of six bangers and pronounce the Cayenne "sold out" for the second year in a row.
?
For their sake I hope they don't saddle the dealers with thousands of six bangers and pronounce the Cayenne "sold out" for the second year in a row.
?
First they made them upgrade dealerships with new buildings (increased fixed costs).
Then they send them a bunch of new inventory (that is languishing and adding flooring costs - added variable expenses)
Now they are going to jam them with highly speculative V6s. Ouch....
Look at some of the dealer inventory numbers. They are now receiving
#69000+++ with spare tire cavity. They started shipping the #40000 units in March. Scroll over the dealers individual cars and an inventory ID will appear at the end of the string, in the bottom of your Windows frame. The bigger the number - the later built car.
With interest rates going up; that is a problem.......
08-28-2003, 09:34 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
Originally posted by Bill Coleman
I don't know - if it has the VW engine and still costs $44k, I think I'd just go ahead and buy the Tuareg instead.
I don't know - if it has the VW engine and still costs $44k, I think I'd just go ahead and buy the Tuareg instead.
2) Even if it's a V6, I bet it handles much better than the VW...
08-28-2003, 09:40 PM
#21
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Torags & George... from the sound of it... are you dealers, perhaps???
(just kidding.... I think)....
Look - it's a great time to be a Porsche dealer. RO hours are sky high, parts sales are through the roof (and most supply/shipping costs are surprisingly low), used car sales are very strong, and there is generous financing available.
Having some flooring costs shouldn't hurt anyone - and the facilities are assets that are usually owned by the dealer's holding company or REIT, and are depreciated out that way - not a real big deal.
I know that if I had the ready capital, I'd be shopping for a dealership!
J
(just kidding.... I think)....
Look - it's a great time to be a Porsche dealer. RO hours are sky high, parts sales are through the roof (and most supply/shipping costs are surprisingly low), used car sales are very strong, and there is generous financing available.
Having some flooring costs shouldn't hurt anyone - and the facilities are assets that are usually owned by the dealer's holding company or REIT, and are depreciated out that way - not a real big deal.
I know that if I had the ready capital, I'd be shopping for a dealership!
J
08-28-2003, 09:59 PM
#22
Naw I'm not a dealer. I wish I had that wherewithal.
But If I were...
let's see....monthly allocation dreams... we'll have a couple of GT3's (those will need some testing) and...um... a couple of turbo's too (more testing and be sure and check that x five oh box), 10 coupes, 10 cabs, 5 Boxsters and two Cayennes. Make sure those Cayenne's are turbos or we'll never move em...
Oh yeah dealer demos- could we get two Supercups and a GT2 to go???
And maybe an RSK and 962 from the museum (for the showroom only of course)?
I'd go broke by Winter. But it would be fun.....
But If I were...
let's see....monthly allocation dreams... we'll have a couple of GT3's (those will need some testing) and...um... a couple of turbo's too (more testing and be sure and check that x five oh box), 10 coupes, 10 cabs, 5 Boxsters and two Cayennes. Make sure those Cayenne's are turbos or we'll never move em...
Oh yeah dealer demos- could we get two Supercups and a GT2 to go???
And maybe an RSK and 962 from the museum (for the showroom only of course)?
I'd go broke by Winter. But it would be fun.....
08-28-2003, 10:11 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hell no, no dealer here. I am close friends with a nissan dealer. They're hot right now. New models now & in the pipeline.
PNA dealers were used to a hybrid "job shop" operation. they would have a few cars on hand and order most from the options book for the customer "to build his own car". This is far different, having to stock lots of cars while waiting to sell them and having to discount them severly.
These cars are a like bannanas. The bunches in inventory spoil - and are overripe - requiring discounting.
How would you like to face 12/31/03 with 40-50 cayennes in stock & PAG is shipping 2005 models of S's & TTs. Your entire inventory is about to be depreciated and the old inventory cost more than you paid for it (adding flooring).
Banks limit flooring (choking dealer new car acquisition) according to sales volume & dealers are being shipped more than they can sell. Interest rates are rising thereby reducing dealer ability to borrow (borrowing ratios affected).
I'm not a car dealer, but I develop high residential RE & I have a lot of experience on holdong property and have interest eat my entire profit & more..........
Be happy you don't have extra capital. Enjoy P car ownership - it's not the same as running a P car business.
PNA dealers were used to a hybrid "job shop" operation. they would have a few cars on hand and order most from the options book for the customer "to build his own car". This is far different, having to stock lots of cars while waiting to sell them and having to discount them severly.
These cars are a like bannanas. The bunches in inventory spoil - and are overripe - requiring discounting.
How would you like to face 12/31/03 with 40-50 cayennes in stock & PAG is shipping 2005 models of S's & TTs. Your entire inventory is about to be depreciated and the old inventory cost more than you paid for it (adding flooring).
Banks limit flooring (choking dealer new car acquisition) according to sales volume & dealers are being shipped more than they can sell. Interest rates are rising thereby reducing dealer ability to borrow (borrowing ratios affected).
I'm not a car dealer, but I develop high residential RE & I have a lot of experience on holdong property and have interest eat my entire profit & more..........
Be happy you don't have extra capital. Enjoy P car ownership - it's not the same as running a P car business.
08-29-2003, 11:48 AM
#24
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
T -
Where did you get that info??? Porsche dealers got "used" to being an order only business from late 1995 thru to 1999 - let's see - that's 4 years out of 20 for PCNA, and out of 30 to 35 years for some dealers.
Second, who's shipping 05's on 12/31/03?? Sorry - can't buy that. Besides, the number of Cayennes in inventory just are not that high. Martin Peters' quote on inventory dates back to June - the high point of inventory levels.
"Banks limit flooring...." whew. Sorry to disabuse that line, but after 20 years in the auto industry (retail & wholesale), what cuts off flooring is a bit different than that.... no nonfactory supported finance arm cares a whit about inventory age/mix/depreciation. It's funding the deals and getting paid that keeps the bank hold away.
J
George - now that sounds like a fun store! Whoo hooo!!!
Where did you get that info??? Porsche dealers got "used" to being an order only business from late 1995 thru to 1999 - let's see - that's 4 years out of 20 for PCNA, and out of 30 to 35 years for some dealers.
Second, who's shipping 05's on 12/31/03?? Sorry - can't buy that. Besides, the number of Cayennes in inventory just are not that high. Martin Peters' quote on inventory dates back to June - the high point of inventory levels.
"Banks limit flooring...." whew. Sorry to disabuse that line, but after 20 years in the auto industry (retail & wholesale), what cuts off flooring is a bit different than that.... no nonfactory supported finance arm cares a whit about inventory age/mix/depreciation. It's funding the deals and getting paid that keeps the bank hold away.
J
George - now that sounds like a fun store! Whoo hooo!!!
08-29-2003, 12:24 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My error on the '05s.
The inventory I'm referring to is in California, from my research. The major dealers have 30-50 Cayennes, not counting Boxsters or 911's.
Lenders require debt/equity ratios for extension of credit and income to support the maintainance of the credit line.
My depreciation arguement concerning 05's was incorrect and you're right banks take car values at book regardless of appreciation or depreciation.
However my arguement is still valid regarding the squeeze in margins for the dealers. Try talking to the controller or accountant of a major dealer and see if you can get a straight answer, he's the guy who faces the realities.
The inventory I'm referring to is in California, from my research. The major dealers have 30-50 Cayennes, not counting Boxsters or 911's.
Lenders require debt/equity ratios for extension of credit and income to support the maintainance of the credit line.
My depreciation arguement concerning 05's was incorrect and you're right banks take car values at book regardless of appreciation or depreciation.
However my arguement is still valid regarding the squeeze in margins for the dealers. Try talking to the controller or accountant of a major dealer and see if you can get a straight answer, he's the guy who faces the realities.
08-29-2003, 04:18 PM
#26
Pro
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, the margins are skinny - that's why a dealer today must do well in Fixed operations & Used products....
Of course, having lots of blue sky has helped line the pockets of many previous dealers!
J
Of course, having lots of blue sky has helped line the pockets of many previous dealers!
J
08-29-2003, 04:47 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 1,572
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good way of putting that Jeff (Blue Sky); I see lots of clouds for them. When I turned down a deal for 500 over invoice ("S" no spare), you know some of these guys want to move product. The smart ones will move it out fast - the head in the sky guys will get hurt.
09-05-2003, 05:53 PM
#28
Instructor
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Porschetown, Germany
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTW: Touareg V6 with 220 hp will be scrapped and replaced by the modified Cayenne V6 engine with 250 hp in 2005. VW is prohibited by contract with Porsche to introduce this engine in the Touareg before 2005.
09-05-2003, 07:26 PM
#29
Race Director
Originally posted by EuroCarNut
Hopefully, with a cheaper Cayenne, it will spawn an off-roading subculture to where vendors will start producing true off-road accessories instead of poseur 22" wheels etc... Imagine a Cayenne with a 4" body lift and 35" tires instead of dropping it 2" and putting on 22" wheels. V6 Cayenne is more likely to lead to that scenario than the V8s.
Hopefully, with a cheaper Cayenne, it will spawn an off-roading subculture to where vendors will start producing true off-road accessories instead of poseur 22" wheels etc... Imagine a Cayenne with a 4" body lift and 35" tires instead of dropping it 2" and putting on 22" wheels. V6 Cayenne is more likely to lead to that scenario than the V8s.
09-05-2003, 08:19 PM
#30
Moderator !x4
I am not sure the tone of this thread is healthy or nice at all. Its not just here, but I sort of expected more from this board.
I am a "new to Porsche" buyer and its me and people like me who will help Porsche survive as an independant company.
The Cayenne is a great design, it will still be a great design in a V6 version.
Far better this than be merged into Ford or GM AND it turns on a whole new generation of enthusiasts to spread the word.
I have to say however that there are a bunch of people out there that strike me as unrealistic spoilt children who would rather take their ball and go play by (with) themselves and who would rather Porsche went down than adapt and embrace this new and exciting future.
Shame on any who relate.
Sorry for the vent, its Friday.
imho
I am a "new to Porsche" buyer and its me and people like me who will help Porsche survive as an independant company.
The Cayenne is a great design, it will still be a great design in a V6 version.
Far better this than be merged into Ford or GM AND it turns on a whole new generation of enthusiasts to spread the word.
I have to say however that there are a bunch of people out there that strike me as unrealistic spoilt children who would rather take their ball and go play by (with) themselves and who would rather Porsche went down than adapt and embrace this new and exciting future.
Shame on any who relate.
Sorry for the vent, its Friday.
imho