Difference between Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg
03-30-2014, 02:56 PM
#46
Three Wheelin'
Sport in the treg holds the revs a bit longer, and downshifts as you slow down, like the cayenne does. Even after resetting the shift points on both the CTT, Cayenne S, treg V8, V10, and V6 - they all shifted at different points, and it was likely due to the motor and maximizing the power. But, *how* they shift (speed of shifts, downshifts, how abrupt it is, etc) is all the same when you put the Treg in Sport mode compared to a cayenne. It's the exact same Aisin built transmission - the same company that supplies Toyota and Jeep with their trannies. There is nothing revolutionary, proprietary, or otherwise about how the tranny works (ask any of the valve body rebuilders, and they'll tell you both valve bodies are exactly the same). This is why you can buy the Toyota fluid for the tranny (amongst many other fluids that meet the spec). I mean, how different do you guys really think these two cars can be when they have the same tranny, same chassis, same suspension bits? You guys make it seem like the Cayenne S is on a whole different level. The steering racks look exactly the same, connect at the same points, and the alignment specs are almost exactly the same. The only reason the cayenne steering is better is that it's less boosted. Slap on some CTT sways on a treg, same rubber, and i bet it'll throw down the same lateral G numbers. You might be able to get the cayenne to rotate a bit easier with the different bias in the t-case, but you need to be at the edge of the envelope for this. Anyone willing to get a cayenne or treg to rotate in a corner on a public street is a braver person than I.
I'm done talking about this.
03-30-2014, 03:04 PM
#47
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Another issue I have. WHO in their right mind designs the keyless remote to have the same button to lock and unlock? Then make you wait three seconds because you were unsure if you locked the car? VW wins on this one.
03-30-2014, 04:18 PM
#48
Moderator !x4
VW has three forward driving modes - tiptronic, Drive, and Sport. Cayenne has two - tiptronic and Drive. A cayenne "Drive" mode feels just like the Touareg "sport" mode. When you shift a treg into drive, you can slide the shifter back one more notch to "S."
Sport in the treg holds the revs a bit longer, and downshifts as you slow down, like the cayenne does. Even after resetting the shift points on both the CTT, Cayenne S, treg V8, V10, and V6 - they all shifted at different points, and it was likely due to the motor and maximizing the power. But, *how* they shift (speed of shifts, downshifts, how abrupt it is, etc) is all the same when you put the Treg in Sport mode compared to a cayenne. It's the exact same Aisin built transmission - the same company that supplies Toyota and Jeep with their trannies. There is nothing revolutionary, proprietary, or otherwise about how the tranny works (ask any of the valve body rebuilders, and they'll tell you both valve bodies are exactly the same). This is why you can buy the Toyota fluid for the tranny (amongst many other fluids that meet the spec). I mean, how different do you guys really think these two cars can be when they have the same tranny, same chassis, same suspension bits? You guys make it seem like the Cayenne S is on a whole different level. The steering racks look exactly the same, connect at the same points, and the alignment specs are almost exactly the same. The only reason the cayenne steering is better is that it's less boosted. Slap on some CTT sways on a treg, same rubber, and i bet it'll throw down the same lateral G numbers. You might be able to get the cayenne to rotate a bit easier with the different bias in the t-case, but you need to be at the edge of the envelope for this. Anyone willing to get a cayenne or treg to rotate in a corner on a public street is a braver person than I.
I'm done talking about this.
Sport in the treg holds the revs a bit longer, and downshifts as you slow down, like the cayenne does. Even after resetting the shift points on both the CTT, Cayenne S, treg V8, V10, and V6 - they all shifted at different points, and it was likely due to the motor and maximizing the power. But, *how* they shift (speed of shifts, downshifts, how abrupt it is, etc) is all the same when you put the Treg in Sport mode compared to a cayenne. It's the exact same Aisin built transmission - the same company that supplies Toyota and Jeep with their trannies. There is nothing revolutionary, proprietary, or otherwise about how the tranny works (ask any of the valve body rebuilders, and they'll tell you both valve bodies are exactly the same). This is why you can buy the Toyota fluid for the tranny (amongst many other fluids that meet the spec). I mean, how different do you guys really think these two cars can be when they have the same tranny, same chassis, same suspension bits? You guys make it seem like the Cayenne S is on a whole different level. The steering racks look exactly the same, connect at the same points, and the alignment specs are almost exactly the same. The only reason the cayenne steering is better is that it's less boosted. Slap on some CTT sways on a treg, same rubber, and i bet it'll throw down the same lateral G numbers. You might be able to get the cayenne to rotate a bit easier with the different bias in the t-case, but you need to be at the edge of the envelope for this. Anyone willing to get a cayenne or treg to rotate in a corner on a public street is a braver person than I.
I'm done talking about this.
03-30-2014, 07:11 PM
#50
I got some friends over at the plant where both cars were built, I could ask them firsthand what the real differences were in body, drivetrain etc.
but I do agree that most of the parts the eye can not see or hand can touch are the same. I definitely know treg parts went into my 06 TTS when I was not able to fill her up (charcoal filter assembly, valve etc.), they fit like a charm and cost about 60% less. plus about 80% of the time when I'm at my indy, he's ordering treg parts. other thing I know for sure is that the seats were manufactured at the Johnson Controls plant near Lucenec, Slovakia for treg, p!g & the Q7, all in one factory, using same materials, just different colors and different shapes (but all produced on one production line). needless to say, they were manufactured with about other dozen seat shapes for very different manufacturers throughout europe.
but I do agree that most of the parts the eye can not see or hand can touch are the same. I definitely know treg parts went into my 06 TTS when I was not able to fill her up (charcoal filter assembly, valve etc.), they fit like a charm and cost about 60% less. plus about 80% of the time when I'm at my indy, he's ordering treg parts. other thing I know for sure is that the seats were manufactured at the Johnson Controls plant near Lucenec, Slovakia for treg, p!g & the Q7, all in one factory, using same materials, just different colors and different shapes (but all produced on one production line). needless to say, they were manufactured with about other dozen seat shapes for very different manufacturers throughout europe.
03-31-2014, 11:57 AM
#52
Three Wheelin'
I haven't heard that the TC is different on the V6 models. I guess it's possible, and if so, I stand corrected. From the rebuilders I've talked to, the V8's are all the same. Same valve body issues, same TSB's released on the 04's for various problems (including the same software updates), etc. You can't slap a porsche TCU on a VW, but it appears they're using the same baseline software since they're having the same issues.
Lupo - that would be great if you could find out what bits are the same. I'd like to know just from a maintenance standpoint. I don't like using cheaper after market parts, but I have no problem using VW parts on the Cayenne.
03-31-2014, 12:25 PM
#53
my indy uses some kind of SW that will tell him if a part number he's searching for is being used in any other VW group car (audi, vw, porsche, skoda, seat, bentley). I'll ask him about it and let you know
03-31-2014, 12:56 PM
#54
Three Wheelin'
That would be great. I remember a few weeks ago I stumbled upon a site that kind of did the same thing. I can't remember what it was, and can't find it now, but it was stating that the air filter between the CTT and treg was the same. CTT obviously flows much more air, so I was a bit skeptical. I'll be pulling both air filters this week and will double check that. Not that air filters are expensive (they're about the same price online), but it'll provide some validation that the site is accurate.
03-31-2014, 08:38 PM
#55
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it was stating that the air filter between the CTT and treg was the same. CTT obviously flows much more air, so I was a bit skeptical. I'll be pulling both air filters this week and will double check that. Not that air filters are expensive (they're about the same price online), but it'll provide some validation that the site is accurate.
03-31-2014, 11:36 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
Well....i bought air filters for my 2012 Touareg TDI a year or two ago. Later, i realized i still had the filters after trading off the Touareg for a 958 CTT.
My CTT uses the exact same air filter, so they will not be going to waste. Same goes for my cabin air filter which i also had leftover from my Touareg. Same same.
My CTT uses the exact same air filter, so they will not be going to waste. Same goes for my cabin air filter which i also had leftover from my Touareg. Same same.
04-01-2014, 09:05 AM
#57
Three Wheelin'
Crazy. Would have thought the filters would have been much different for the CTT given how much more air it flows. But, I guess it's easier to design one air box for the CTT, and then just use that for the rest of the motor setups rather than design individual air boxes.
Maybe we should start a thread on the common parts and part numbers - at least on the ones that are substantially cheaper to buy from VW.
Maybe we should start a thread on the common parts and part numbers - at least on the ones that are substantially cheaper to buy from VW.
04-01-2014, 09:43 AM
#58
Moderator !x4
You might want the opposite also. Porsche sub contract management has coverage for "bad" parts that made it thru into production
Those parts are heavily subsidized where the VW is not.
A good example is the glovebox locking mechanism, it consists of a standard bicycle brake cable design. when the lock goes and you can no longer open the glove box you have to use a blade to open it.
The component is about 3 feet long with an integrated lock and release lever. When I took mine out I assumed it was going to be about $150 but was shocked to find it in stock (shocker) and $14
Those parts are heavily subsidized where the VW is not.
A good example is the glovebox locking mechanism, it consists of a standard bicycle brake cable design. when the lock goes and you can no longer open the glove box you have to use a blade to open it.
The component is about 3 feet long with an integrated lock and release lever. When I took mine out I assumed it was going to be about $150 but was shocked to find it in stock (shocker) and $14
04-02-2014, 04:02 AM
#60
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Crazy. Would have thought the filters would have been much different for the CTT given how much more air it flows. But, I guess it's easier to design one air box for the CTT, and then just use that for the rest of the motor setups rather than design individual air boxes.
Maybe we should start a thread on the common parts and part numbers - at least on the ones that are substantially cheaper to buy from VW.
Maybe we should start a thread on the common parts and part numbers - at least on the ones that are substantially cheaper to buy from VW.
A part number saving thread sounds like a good idea. Or maybe better is a librarian and a spreadsheet.