Difference between Porsche Cayenne and VW Touareg
03-29-2014, 12:56 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
I have both. An 06 Treg V8 with all options and an 04 CTT. The 06 has every option, where the CTT has most options, including 4-zone.
From digging around on both cars, I can say that all the driveline components are the same. Tranny, t-case, rear diff. The t-case on the CTT has a different bias, but I think that comes down to a few different parts internally. Externally, they're the same, including the stepper motor.
Inside, the HVAC system is 100% same parts. Seat frames appear to be the same, but that's about where the similarities end.
My treg is black with a teak interior and it's a much more luxurious looking interior than the CTT, but the CTT looks better built, if that makes any sense. I say "looking" but the all-leather dash on the CTT obviously feels better and is quieter. The seats are more heavily bolstered in the CTT, but for some reason the bolstering isn't comfy. The 15 year old Sparco seats in my old 911 were more comfortable. It feels like they pinch my hips, like I'm sitting on a wallet in each pocket. And, I'm 5/8 145 lbs. It also feels like the lumbar support is too much. Even with the lumbar adjust down and back as far as it will go, there is a lot of distance between my upper back and the seat. In the VW, there is almost no lateral support, but the headrest design and the rest of the seat are much more comfortable. I can tilt the head rest forward and sit in my normal driving position in complete comfort. There is no forward tilting of the headrest on the CTT. I never understood why they would do this on a car meant for long drives. I could drive all day in the treg in complete comfort. I couldn't do that in the CTT.
Ergonomics wise - no question the VW takes the cake. The only thing I don't like about the VW interior is the placement of the turn signal stalk. It's really low compared to most cars (almost where the cruise stalk is on the CTT). With 4-zone and nav, the interior looks awesome at night. I like the look of the aluminum trim on the treg, but it's fragile in that it dents easily. it's hard to find one that doesn't have a lot of dents in it, especially towards the backs here the seat belt can ding it when you release and they retract to the B pillar.
There are differences in how the two handle the suspension. In the treg, you have Sport, Auto (Normal), and Comfort. When you pick Sport, the suspension auto lowers, and when you pick Normal or comfort, the suspension goes to next higher setting. You can't drive in the second highest setting in Sport mode on the treg, or drive at 45 mph at the lowest setting in comfort mode. In the CTT, you can use any combo of suspension and height settings (within the speed thresholds). There are speed thresholds, though, and those are roughly the same (auto lowering at a certain speed, etc). I also don't like that flash to pass on the treg turns on the HIDs, where on the CTT it uses the halogen high beams. You can use vagcom to make all 6 lights come on for the high beams (fogs, HID, HB), and I guess this makes the flash to pass ignite the halogens only, but that never worked out on my car. It just turns on the HIDs when I flash people.
The Treg sounds better, too. You can hear the burbles of the exhaust a lot more, but that's not exclusive to this platform. It's an NA vs FI thing.
If there is a difference in tuning in the suspension, I can't tell the difference. Sport mode on both platforms feels close to the same on a straight stretch of HWY. They both feel equally as planted and handle body control over the larger rolling bumps the same. Bigger sways on the CTT help in the corners, but the actual dampening feels close to the same. And that's with 20" wheels on the CTT, and 18" on the treg. Brakes are different, but they all feel great for normal mountain driving.
I enjoy "being" in the treg more. The backup camera with the boxes (I know backup was available on the 06 CTT, but not with trajectory), the centralized layout of buttons on the dash, the plethora of places to put things like cell phone and wallet (when the upholders are filled), the Treg looks better and has more comfy seats. I hate the stalk cruise control on the CTT. I often miss it and flash my brights. The steering wheel buttons on the CTT make zero sense to me, especially with the various methods of seeking stations. The treg setup makes more sense with putting the cruise buttons on the steering wheel (neither cars have a way to cycle through the presets though - so dumb). I also hate that the side mirror control is up on the A-pillar on the CTT. When I reach forward to adjust it, I have to sit back in the seat and see if the adjustment was a good one. On the Treg, it's right on the console so I can stay in my driving position and get the adjustment just right. It's also more convenient to reach it when I'm about to parallel park and want the right side to swivel down. Small things that make a difference when you live downtown. In the treg, you move the shifter right for tiptronic, where you move it left in the CTT. I prefer the treg setup since I often pull on shifter in the CTT when going around a corner, and it moves into tiptronic. If I'm actually shifting myself, both hands are on the wheel and i'm using the crap buttons.
I won't even touch the PSM vs Treg's Nav. I could operate the entire VW navigation system intuitively without having to access the manual. With the CTT - much of it didn't make sense to me and I'm pretty good with figuring stuff like that out.
The roof load carry bars are different. The CTT has thick, foil shaped bars with a t-slot in the top, where the Treg has one giant foil that splits in half with t-slots. The Treg's bars are really thick, and nothing will clamp around them. You can get T-slot attachments for any of the yakima, thule, etc setups, and that's the way to go for mounting things to them. The slots in the roof tracks are also different. The Treg has the two in the far back to put the bars together, but it also has one right behind the sunroof. The CTT only has two up front and they're right over the sunroof. I've always had my front bar mounted behind my sunroof on wagons and such, both for the sound and for being able to open the roof and still have a clear view of the sky. Sucks you can't do that on the CTT. I've considered swapping the entire roof load system from the treg to the CTT. It appears the track has some torx bits in it, so I'm wondering if it'll just pop off.
Rear 4-zone in the Treg makes total sense and it's easy to see. Rear 4-zone in the CTT is hard to see because it's recessed in the console (you have to lean over to read all of it), and the controls aren't intuitive. I have to explain to people how to use it, where I never did on the Treg. Only benefit is the treg had physical dial controls for the seat, which will stay on when people aren't in the back anymore. The CTT has button seat heaters, and those reset to off when you turn the car off. So, you don't have to remember to check the back seat heaters.
I don't know a lot about the PAG NA V8, but the Audi sourced V8 in the treg is great. Rock solid, has a timing belt that if changed on time, rarely gives anyone problems, and it makes great power. I've driven both the Cayenne S and my Treg back to back, and it didn't feel that much faster. Plus, the S didn't have a color cluster, no air-suspenion, and it just felt really plane inside compared to the treg. Handling didn't feel much better, either. Not sure if the sway bars on the S are smaller or not, but it felt damn close to the treg. The steering is better, and that's the biggest issue with the treg. The steering is so over boosted that I have to often turn the steering wheel back to center myself as it won't return on it's own exiting a corner. There is zero feedback, and it's almost a hindrance since I can't tell if the front is about to loose grip in the snow or not.
Knowing what I know now with the two cars I have - I think the greatest strengths of the CTT over the treg are power and handling. I don't see many benefits of an S over the treg. Power doesn't need explaining, but when you combine thicker sways, rear biased t-case, more supportive seats, and better steering - it makes for a much more complete package on that front. But, for me, that's where the CTT benefits end. The Treg looks better, it's more comfortable, the ergonomics are superior, and it's just a nicer place to be on the inside - at least for my Teak interior. The 04 tregs had tons of issues, but the 06 MY was really solid and had tons of options that are readily available when you're shopping. I often miss my treg (it's going up for sale). It's much better off-road and on a road trip, but I enjoy *driving* the CTT much more. Not nocking those with an S, but I can't see why anyone would pay the premium to get an S over a fully equipped Touareg. The V10 is worth mentioning, and it's far faster than what the 0-60 and quarter miles stats show. It's a monster, but it comes with monster weight. It's a solid motor if you're able to own one and get some of the issues fixed, but no denying it's an expensive brute when things fail. I debated for a long time getting a T2 V10, but we're back to the handling problem that drove me to the CTT (I owned the treg first).
04 CTT in any trim > 06 Treg fully loaded >>>>>>> any Cayenne S
From digging around on both cars, I can say that all the driveline components are the same. Tranny, t-case, rear diff. The t-case on the CTT has a different bias, but I think that comes down to a few different parts internally. Externally, they're the same, including the stepper motor.
Inside, the HVAC system is 100% same parts. Seat frames appear to be the same, but that's about where the similarities end.
My treg is black with a teak interior and it's a much more luxurious looking interior than the CTT, but the CTT looks better built, if that makes any sense. I say "looking" but the all-leather dash on the CTT obviously feels better and is quieter. The seats are more heavily bolstered in the CTT, but for some reason the bolstering isn't comfy. The 15 year old Sparco seats in my old 911 were more comfortable. It feels like they pinch my hips, like I'm sitting on a wallet in each pocket. And, I'm 5/8 145 lbs. It also feels like the lumbar support is too much. Even with the lumbar adjust down and back as far as it will go, there is a lot of distance between my upper back and the seat. In the VW, there is almost no lateral support, but the headrest design and the rest of the seat are much more comfortable. I can tilt the head rest forward and sit in my normal driving position in complete comfort. There is no forward tilting of the headrest on the CTT. I never understood why they would do this on a car meant for long drives. I could drive all day in the treg in complete comfort. I couldn't do that in the CTT.
Ergonomics wise - no question the VW takes the cake. The only thing I don't like about the VW interior is the placement of the turn signal stalk. It's really low compared to most cars (almost where the cruise stalk is on the CTT). With 4-zone and nav, the interior looks awesome at night. I like the look of the aluminum trim on the treg, but it's fragile in that it dents easily. it's hard to find one that doesn't have a lot of dents in it, especially towards the backs here the seat belt can ding it when you release and they retract to the B pillar.
There are differences in how the two handle the suspension. In the treg, you have Sport, Auto (Normal), and Comfort. When you pick Sport, the suspension auto lowers, and when you pick Normal or comfort, the suspension goes to next higher setting. You can't drive in the second highest setting in Sport mode on the treg, or drive at 45 mph at the lowest setting in comfort mode. In the CTT, you can use any combo of suspension and height settings (within the speed thresholds). There are speed thresholds, though, and those are roughly the same (auto lowering at a certain speed, etc). I also don't like that flash to pass on the treg turns on the HIDs, where on the CTT it uses the halogen high beams. You can use vagcom to make all 6 lights come on for the high beams (fogs, HID, HB), and I guess this makes the flash to pass ignite the halogens only, but that never worked out on my car. It just turns on the HIDs when I flash people.
The Treg sounds better, too. You can hear the burbles of the exhaust a lot more, but that's not exclusive to this platform. It's an NA vs FI thing.
If there is a difference in tuning in the suspension, I can't tell the difference. Sport mode on both platforms feels close to the same on a straight stretch of HWY. They both feel equally as planted and handle body control over the larger rolling bumps the same. Bigger sways on the CTT help in the corners, but the actual dampening feels close to the same. And that's with 20" wheels on the CTT, and 18" on the treg. Brakes are different, but they all feel great for normal mountain driving.
I enjoy "being" in the treg more. The backup camera with the boxes (I know backup was available on the 06 CTT, but not with trajectory), the centralized layout of buttons on the dash, the plethora of places to put things like cell phone and wallet (when the upholders are filled), the Treg looks better and has more comfy seats. I hate the stalk cruise control on the CTT. I often miss it and flash my brights. The steering wheel buttons on the CTT make zero sense to me, especially with the various methods of seeking stations. The treg setup makes more sense with putting the cruise buttons on the steering wheel (neither cars have a way to cycle through the presets though - so dumb). I also hate that the side mirror control is up on the A-pillar on the CTT. When I reach forward to adjust it, I have to sit back in the seat and see if the adjustment was a good one. On the Treg, it's right on the console so I can stay in my driving position and get the adjustment just right. It's also more convenient to reach it when I'm about to parallel park and want the right side to swivel down. Small things that make a difference when you live downtown. In the treg, you move the shifter right for tiptronic, where you move it left in the CTT. I prefer the treg setup since I often pull on shifter in the CTT when going around a corner, and it moves into tiptronic. If I'm actually shifting myself, both hands are on the wheel and i'm using the crap buttons.
I won't even touch the PSM vs Treg's Nav. I could operate the entire VW navigation system intuitively without having to access the manual. With the CTT - much of it didn't make sense to me and I'm pretty good with figuring stuff like that out.
The roof load carry bars are different. The CTT has thick, foil shaped bars with a t-slot in the top, where the Treg has one giant foil that splits in half with t-slots. The Treg's bars are really thick, and nothing will clamp around them. You can get T-slot attachments for any of the yakima, thule, etc setups, and that's the way to go for mounting things to them. The slots in the roof tracks are also different. The Treg has the two in the far back to put the bars together, but it also has one right behind the sunroof. The CTT only has two up front and they're right over the sunroof. I've always had my front bar mounted behind my sunroof on wagons and such, both for the sound and for being able to open the roof and still have a clear view of the sky. Sucks you can't do that on the CTT. I've considered swapping the entire roof load system from the treg to the CTT. It appears the track has some torx bits in it, so I'm wondering if it'll just pop off.
Rear 4-zone in the Treg makes total sense and it's easy to see. Rear 4-zone in the CTT is hard to see because it's recessed in the console (you have to lean over to read all of it), and the controls aren't intuitive. I have to explain to people how to use it, where I never did on the Treg. Only benefit is the treg had physical dial controls for the seat, which will stay on when people aren't in the back anymore. The CTT has button seat heaters, and those reset to off when you turn the car off. So, you don't have to remember to check the back seat heaters.
I don't know a lot about the PAG NA V8, but the Audi sourced V8 in the treg is great. Rock solid, has a timing belt that if changed on time, rarely gives anyone problems, and it makes great power. I've driven both the Cayenne S and my Treg back to back, and it didn't feel that much faster. Plus, the S didn't have a color cluster, no air-suspenion, and it just felt really plane inside compared to the treg. Handling didn't feel much better, either. Not sure if the sway bars on the S are smaller or not, but it felt damn close to the treg. The steering is better, and that's the biggest issue with the treg. The steering is so over boosted that I have to often turn the steering wheel back to center myself as it won't return on it's own exiting a corner. There is zero feedback, and it's almost a hindrance since I can't tell if the front is about to loose grip in the snow or not.
Knowing what I know now with the two cars I have - I think the greatest strengths of the CTT over the treg are power and handling. I don't see many benefits of an S over the treg. Power doesn't need explaining, but when you combine thicker sways, rear biased t-case, more supportive seats, and better steering - it makes for a much more complete package on that front. But, for me, that's where the CTT benefits end. The Treg looks better, it's more comfortable, the ergonomics are superior, and it's just a nicer place to be on the inside - at least for my Teak interior. The 04 tregs had tons of issues, but the 06 MY was really solid and had tons of options that are readily available when you're shopping. I often miss my treg (it's going up for sale). It's much better off-road and on a road trip, but I enjoy *driving* the CTT much more. Not nocking those with an S, but I can't see why anyone would pay the premium to get an S over a fully equipped Touareg. The V10 is worth mentioning, and it's far faster than what the 0-60 and quarter miles stats show. It's a monster, but it comes with monster weight. It's a solid motor if you're able to own one and get some of the issues fixed, but no denying it's an expensive brute when things fail. I debated for a long time getting a T2 V10, but we're back to the handling problem that drove me to the CTT (I owned the treg first).
04 CTT in any trim > 06 Treg fully loaded >>>>>>> any Cayenne S
03-29-2014, 04:40 PM
#32
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Anyone can clearly see that the rear fenders,rear roof line, rear taillight sockets, windows, tailgate, etc are different. So its obvious that the touaregfaq is wrong in that aspect. The doors also look to have a different shape.
Also. The suspension is "similar" but not " the same. The transmission maybe the same unit but tuned the same or different internally? Audi/Porssche/VW/BMW all use variations of the "same transmission" across lots of platforms. But tune each differently for the engine and car it's going in.
We know the torque split at the transfer case is different in the Cayenne even though it's the same basic transfer case design.
This sounds like a case of Touareg owners taking a "quick glance" at some parts and jumping to conclusions.
Think about how many body variations Porsche makes on a 911 in a single model year. Think they would simply throw new front fenders on a Touareg and call it a Cayenne?
Similar doesn't equal " the same"
Also. The suspension is "similar" but not " the same. The transmission maybe the same unit but tuned the same or different internally? Audi/Porssche/VW/BMW all use variations of the "same transmission" across lots of platforms. But tune each differently for the engine and car it's going in.
We know the torque split at the transfer case is different in the Cayenne even though it's the same basic transfer case design.
This sounds like a case of Touareg owners taking a "quick glance" at some parts and jumping to conclusions.
Think about how many body variations Porsche makes on a 911 in a single model year. Think they would simply throw new front fenders on a Touareg and call it a Cayenne?
Similar doesn't equal " the same"
Having a Treg V8 (with the 4.2 audi engine) and a Cayenne TT at the same time gives me a unique perspective. I have been driving both back to back and with regards to ride, mine both have air ride and ride the same (seat of the pants only, no data). The Treg has some features I like better and the Porsche has some that I like better.
At this point I will still stand by my original analysis and state that dollar for dollar the Treg V8 is a MUCH better deal than the Cayenne S. It has the transfer case (whereas the Cayenne S either doesn't or it is optional) which, when pulling a 7000lb trailer out of the water is nice.
I also love the 4.2 Audi engine. Almost bullet proof and cheap (they are in a lot of cars). Can't same the same of the 4.5.
Now if I could have got my hands on a W12 Treg it would give a serious run for the peppers money as it has 50 MORE horsepower without forced induction.
I also looked at the V10 Diesel, but it was costing Cayenne turbo money here in Canada, so I passed.
So far overall, I have had to make some adjustments with the P!g, but I am certain I made the right choice in buying the TT.
03-29-2014, 04:45 PM
#33
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I have both. An 06 Treg V8 with all options and an 04 CTT. The 06 has every option, where the CTT has most options, including 4-zone.
From digging around on both cars, I can say that all the driveline components are the same. Tranny, t-case, rear diff. The t-case on the CTT has a different bias, but I think that comes down to a few different parts internally. Externally, they're the same, including the stepper motor.
Inside, the HVAC system is 100% same parts. Seat frames appear to be the same, but that's about where the similarities end.
My treg is black with a teak interior and it's a much more luxurious looking interior than the CTT, but the CTT looks better built, if that makes any sense. I say "looking" but the all-leather dash on the CTT obviously feels better and is quieter. The seats are more heavily bolstered in the CTT, but for some reason the bolstering isn't comfy. The 15 year old Sparco seats in my old 911 were more comfortable. It feels like they pinch my hips, like I'm sitting on a wallet in each pocket. And, I'm 5/8 145 lbs. It also feels like the lumbar support is too much. Even with the lumbar adjust down and back as far as it will go, there is a lot of distance between my upper back and the seat. In the VW, there is almost no lateral support, but the headrest design and the rest of the seat are much more comfortable. I can tilt the head rest forward and sit in my normal driving position in complete comfort. There is no forward tilting of the headrest on the CTT. I never understood why they would do this on a car meant for long drives. I could drive all day in the treg in complete comfort. I couldn't do that in the CTT.
Ergonomics wise - no question the VW takes the cake. The only thing I don't like about the VW interior is the placement of the turn signal stalk. It's really low compared to most cars (almost where the cruise stalk is on the CTT). With 4-zone and nav, the interior looks awesome at night. I like the look of the aluminum trim on the treg, but it's fragile in that it dents easily. it's hard to find one that doesn't have a lot of dents in it, especially towards the backs here the seat belt can ding it when you release and they retract to the B pillar.
There are differences in how the two handle the suspension. In the treg, you have Sport, Auto (Normal), and Comfort. When you pick Sport, the suspension auto lowers, and when you pick Normal or comfort, the suspension goes to next higher setting. You can't drive in the second highest setting in Sport mode on the treg, or drive at 45 mph at the lowest setting in comfort mode. In the CTT, you can use any combo of suspension and height settings (within the speed thresholds). There are speed thresholds, though, and those are roughly the same (auto lowering at a certain speed, etc). I also don't like that flash to pass on the treg turns on the HIDs, where on the CTT it uses the halogen high beams. You can use vagcom to make all 6 lights come on for the high beams (fogs, HID, HB), and I guess this makes the flash to pass ignite the halogens only, but that never worked out on my car. It just turns on the HIDs when I flash people.
The Treg sounds better, too. You can hear the burbles of the exhaust a lot more, but that's not exclusive to this platform. It's an NA vs FI thing.
If there is a difference in tuning in the suspension, I can't tell the difference. Sport mode on both platforms feels close to the same on a straight stretch of HWY. They both feel equally as planted and handle body control over the larger rolling bumps the same. Bigger sways on the CTT help in the corners, but the actual dampening feels close to the same. And that's with 20" wheels on the CTT, and 18" on the treg. Brakes are different, but they all feel great for normal mountain driving.
I enjoy "being" in the treg more. The backup camera with the boxes (I know backup was available on the 06 CTT, but not with trajectory), the centralized layout of buttons on the dash, the plethora of places to put things like cell phone and wallet (when the upholders are filled), the Treg looks better and has more comfy seats. I hate the stalk cruise control on the CTT. I often miss it and flash my brights. The steering wheel buttons on the CTT make zero sense to me, especially with the various methods of seeking stations. The treg setup makes more sense with putting the cruise buttons on the steering wheel (neither cars have a way to cycle through the presets though - so dumb). I also hate that the side mirror control is up on the A-pillar on the CTT. When I reach forward to adjust it, I have to sit back in the seat and see if the adjustment was a good one. On the Treg, it's right on the console so I can stay in my driving position and get the adjustment just right. It's also more convenient to reach it when I'm about to parallel park and want the right side to swivel down. Small things that make a difference when you live downtown. In the treg, you move the shifter right for tiptronic, where you move it left in the CTT. I prefer the treg setup since I often pull on shifter in the CTT when going around a corner, and it moves into tiptronic. If I'm actually shifting myself, both hands are on the wheel and i'm using the crap buttons.
I won't even touch the PSM vs Treg's Nav. I could operate the entire VW navigation system intuitively without having to access the manual. With the CTT - much of it didn't make sense to me and I'm pretty good with figuring stuff like that out.
The roof load carry bars are different. The CTT has thick, foil shaped bars with a t-slot in the top, where the Treg has one giant foil that splits in half with t-slots. The Treg's bars are really thick, and nothing will clamp around them. You can get T-slot attachments for any of the yakima, thule, etc setups, and that's the way to go for mounting things to them. The slots in the roof tracks are also different. The Treg has the two in the far back to put the bars together, but it also has one right behind the sunroof. The CTT only has two up front and they're right over the sunroof. I've always had my front bar mounted behind my sunroof on wagons and such, both for the sound and for being able to open the roof and still have a clear view of the sky. Sucks you can't do that on the CTT. I've considered swapping the entire roof load system from the treg to the CTT. It appears the track has some torx bits in it, so I'm wondering if it'll just pop off.
Rear 4-zone in the Treg makes total sense and it's easy to see. Rear 4-zone in the CTT is hard to see because it's recessed in the console (you have to lean over to read all of it), and the controls aren't intuitive. I have to explain to people how to use it, where I never did on the Treg. Only benefit is the treg had physical dial controls for the seat, which will stay on when people aren't in the back anymore. The CTT has button seat heaters, and those reset to off when you turn the car off. So, you don't have to remember to check the back seat heaters.
I don't know a lot about the PAG NA V8, but the Audi sourced V8 in the treg is great. Rock solid, has a timing belt that if changed on time, rarely gives anyone problems, and it makes great power. I've driven both the Cayenne S and my Treg back to back, and it didn't feel that much faster. Plus, the S didn't have a color cluster, no air-suspenion, and it just felt really plane inside compared to the treg. Handling didn't feel much better, either. Not sure if the sway bars on the S are smaller or not, but it felt damn close to the treg. The steering is better, and that's the biggest issue with the treg. The steering is so over boosted that I have to often turn the steering wheel back to center myself as it won't return on it's own exiting a corner. There is zero feedback, and it's almost a hindrance since I can't tell if the front is about to loose grip in the snow or not.
Knowing what I know now with the two cars I have - I think the greatest strengths of the CTT over the treg are power and handling. I don't see many benefits of an S over the treg. Power doesn't need explaining, but when you combine thicker sways, rear biased t-case, more supportive seats, and better steering - it makes for a much more complete package on that front. But, for me, that's where the CTT benefits end. The Treg looks better, it's more comfortable, the ergonomics are superior, and it's just a nicer place to be on the inside - at least for my Teak interior. The 04 tregs had tons of issues, but the 06 MY was really solid and had tons of options that are readily available when you're shopping. I often miss my treg (it's going up for sale). It's much better off-road and on a road trip, but I enjoy *driving* the CTT much more. Not nocking those with an S, but I can't see why anyone would pay the premium to get an S over a fully equipped Touareg. The V10 is worth mentioning, and it's far faster than what the 0-60 and quarter miles stats show. It's a monster, but it comes with monster weight. It's a solid motor if you're able to own one and get some of the issues fixed, but no denying it's an expensive brute when things fail. I debated for a long time getting a T2 V10, but we're back to the handling problem that drove me to the CTT (I owned the treg first).
04 CTT in any trim > 06 Treg fully loaded >>>>>>> any Cayenne S
From digging around on both cars, I can say that all the driveline components are the same. Tranny, t-case, rear diff. The t-case on the CTT has a different bias, but I think that comes down to a few different parts internally. Externally, they're the same, including the stepper motor.
Inside, the HVAC system is 100% same parts. Seat frames appear to be the same, but that's about where the similarities end.
My treg is black with a teak interior and it's a much more luxurious looking interior than the CTT, but the CTT looks better built, if that makes any sense. I say "looking" but the all-leather dash on the CTT obviously feels better and is quieter. The seats are more heavily bolstered in the CTT, but for some reason the bolstering isn't comfy. The 15 year old Sparco seats in my old 911 were more comfortable. It feels like they pinch my hips, like I'm sitting on a wallet in each pocket. And, I'm 5/8 145 lbs. It also feels like the lumbar support is too much. Even with the lumbar adjust down and back as far as it will go, there is a lot of distance between my upper back and the seat. In the VW, there is almost no lateral support, but the headrest design and the rest of the seat are much more comfortable. I can tilt the head rest forward and sit in my normal driving position in complete comfort. There is no forward tilting of the headrest on the CTT. I never understood why they would do this on a car meant for long drives. I could drive all day in the treg in complete comfort. I couldn't do that in the CTT.
Ergonomics wise - no question the VW takes the cake. The only thing I don't like about the VW interior is the placement of the turn signal stalk. It's really low compared to most cars (almost where the cruise stalk is on the CTT). With 4-zone and nav, the interior looks awesome at night. I like the look of the aluminum trim on the treg, but it's fragile in that it dents easily. it's hard to find one that doesn't have a lot of dents in it, especially towards the backs here the seat belt can ding it when you release and they retract to the B pillar.
There are differences in how the two handle the suspension. In the treg, you have Sport, Auto (Normal), and Comfort. When you pick Sport, the suspension auto lowers, and when you pick Normal or comfort, the suspension goes to next higher setting. You can't drive in the second highest setting in Sport mode on the treg, or drive at 45 mph at the lowest setting in comfort mode. In the CTT, you can use any combo of suspension and height settings (within the speed thresholds). There are speed thresholds, though, and those are roughly the same (auto lowering at a certain speed, etc). I also don't like that flash to pass on the treg turns on the HIDs, where on the CTT it uses the halogen high beams. You can use vagcom to make all 6 lights come on for the high beams (fogs, HID, HB), and I guess this makes the flash to pass ignite the halogens only, but that never worked out on my car. It just turns on the HIDs when I flash people.
The Treg sounds better, too. You can hear the burbles of the exhaust a lot more, but that's not exclusive to this platform. It's an NA vs FI thing.
If there is a difference in tuning in the suspension, I can't tell the difference. Sport mode on both platforms feels close to the same on a straight stretch of HWY. They both feel equally as planted and handle body control over the larger rolling bumps the same. Bigger sways on the CTT help in the corners, but the actual dampening feels close to the same. And that's with 20" wheels on the CTT, and 18" on the treg. Brakes are different, but they all feel great for normal mountain driving.
I enjoy "being" in the treg more. The backup camera with the boxes (I know backup was available on the 06 CTT, but not with trajectory), the centralized layout of buttons on the dash, the plethora of places to put things like cell phone and wallet (when the upholders are filled), the Treg looks better and has more comfy seats. I hate the stalk cruise control on the CTT. I often miss it and flash my brights. The steering wheel buttons on the CTT make zero sense to me, especially with the various methods of seeking stations. The treg setup makes more sense with putting the cruise buttons on the steering wheel (neither cars have a way to cycle through the presets though - so dumb). I also hate that the side mirror control is up on the A-pillar on the CTT. When I reach forward to adjust it, I have to sit back in the seat and see if the adjustment was a good one. On the Treg, it's right on the console so I can stay in my driving position and get the adjustment just right. It's also more convenient to reach it when I'm about to parallel park and want the right side to swivel down. Small things that make a difference when you live downtown. In the treg, you move the shifter right for tiptronic, where you move it left in the CTT. I prefer the treg setup since I often pull on shifter in the CTT when going around a corner, and it moves into tiptronic. If I'm actually shifting myself, both hands are on the wheel and i'm using the crap buttons.
I won't even touch the PSM vs Treg's Nav. I could operate the entire VW navigation system intuitively without having to access the manual. With the CTT - much of it didn't make sense to me and I'm pretty good with figuring stuff like that out.
The roof load carry bars are different. The CTT has thick, foil shaped bars with a t-slot in the top, where the Treg has one giant foil that splits in half with t-slots. The Treg's bars are really thick, and nothing will clamp around them. You can get T-slot attachments for any of the yakima, thule, etc setups, and that's the way to go for mounting things to them. The slots in the roof tracks are also different. The Treg has the two in the far back to put the bars together, but it also has one right behind the sunroof. The CTT only has two up front and they're right over the sunroof. I've always had my front bar mounted behind my sunroof on wagons and such, both for the sound and for being able to open the roof and still have a clear view of the sky. Sucks you can't do that on the CTT. I've considered swapping the entire roof load system from the treg to the CTT. It appears the track has some torx bits in it, so I'm wondering if it'll just pop off.
Rear 4-zone in the Treg makes total sense and it's easy to see. Rear 4-zone in the CTT is hard to see because it's recessed in the console (you have to lean over to read all of it), and the controls aren't intuitive. I have to explain to people how to use it, where I never did on the Treg. Only benefit is the treg had physical dial controls for the seat, which will stay on when people aren't in the back anymore. The CTT has button seat heaters, and those reset to off when you turn the car off. So, you don't have to remember to check the back seat heaters.
I don't know a lot about the PAG NA V8, but the Audi sourced V8 in the treg is great. Rock solid, has a timing belt that if changed on time, rarely gives anyone problems, and it makes great power. I've driven both the Cayenne S and my Treg back to back, and it didn't feel that much faster. Plus, the S didn't have a color cluster, no air-suspenion, and it just felt really plane inside compared to the treg. Handling didn't feel much better, either. Not sure if the sway bars on the S are smaller or not, but it felt damn close to the treg. The steering is better, and that's the biggest issue with the treg. The steering is so over boosted that I have to often turn the steering wheel back to center myself as it won't return on it's own exiting a corner. There is zero feedback, and it's almost a hindrance since I can't tell if the front is about to loose grip in the snow or not.
Knowing what I know now with the two cars I have - I think the greatest strengths of the CTT over the treg are power and handling. I don't see many benefits of an S over the treg. Power doesn't need explaining, but when you combine thicker sways, rear biased t-case, more supportive seats, and better steering - it makes for a much more complete package on that front. But, for me, that's where the CTT benefits end. The Treg looks better, it's more comfortable, the ergonomics are superior, and it's just a nicer place to be on the inside - at least for my Teak interior. The 04 tregs had tons of issues, but the 06 MY was really solid and had tons of options that are readily available when you're shopping. I often miss my treg (it's going up for sale). It's much better off-road and on a road trip, but I enjoy *driving* the CTT much more. Not nocking those with an S, but I can't see why anyone would pay the premium to get an S over a fully equipped Touareg. The V10 is worth mentioning, and it's far faster than what the 0-60 and quarter miles stats show. It's a monster, but it comes with monster weight. It's a solid motor if you're able to own one and get some of the issues fixed, but no denying it's an expensive brute when things fail. I debated for a long time getting a T2 V10, but we're back to the handling problem that drove me to the CTT (I owned the treg first).
04 CTT in any trim > 06 Treg fully loaded >>>>>>> any Cayenne S
03-29-2014, 07:00 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Anyone can clearly see that the rear fenders,rear roof line, rear taillight sockets, windows, tailgate, etc are different. So its obvious that the touaregfaq is wrong in that aspect. The doors also look to have a different shape.
Also. The suspension is "similar" but not " the same. The transmission maybe the same unit but tuned the same or different internally? Audi/Porssche/VW/BMW all use variations of the "same transmission" across lots of platforms. But tune each differently for the engine and car it's going in.
We know the torque split at the transfer case is different in the Cayenne even though it's the same basic transfer case design.
This sounds like a case of Touareg owners taking a "quick glance" at some parts and jumping to conclusions.
Think about how many body variations Porsche makes on a 911 in a single model year. Think they would simply throw new front fenders on a Touareg and call it a Cayenne?
Similar doesn't equal " the same"
Also. The suspension is "similar" but not " the same. The transmission maybe the same unit but tuned the same or different internally? Audi/Porssche/VW/BMW all use variations of the "same transmission" across lots of platforms. But tune each differently for the engine and car it's going in.
We know the torque split at the transfer case is different in the Cayenne even though it's the same basic transfer case design.
This sounds like a case of Touareg owners taking a "quick glance" at some parts and jumping to conclusions.
Think about how many body variations Porsche makes on a 911 in a single model year. Think they would simply throw new front fenders on a Touareg and call it a Cayenne?
Similar doesn't equal " the same"
The transmission is the exact same. Same filters, same valve body, same everything. It might be tuned differently and have different shift points, but to me the CTT feels exactly the same as the Treg in "Sport" mode (which the CTT doesn't have).
Lift gate internally is exactly the same. It's raked differently up top where the glass is, but even there much of the build is exactly the same. The only difference I can tell is the tail lights, and the wiper arm. Lights are obviously different front and rear, but the VW uses a half-cover on the rear wiper, and the wiper blade attaches in a really funky (and annoying) way. The CTT uses a full cover and attaches in a much more simple fashion. CTT also has two rear fog lights, where the Treg only has one. In fact, the CTT lights (front and rear) function just like the euro-spec Treg does. Not entirely sure why VW opted to have their US Treg lights function the way they do. The low beams are the DRL, and because of that, the light switch basically functions to turn on the tail lights and fogs. Having the low beams on for a DRL causes you to run through a lot of HID bulbs. You can use vagcom to move the DRL option to the cluster menu, but that's not how it comes from the factory.
I think the CTT and treg are a lot more similar than you'd like to believe. I don't think Porsche would have entered into agreement with VW unless they saved a lot of development money in doing it. VW didn't have to develop a motor for the treg; Porsche did with the V8 in the cayenne - two of them actually. I doubt Porsche could stand to make a big profit if they had to develop a motor, and then tweak all the driveline and suspension parts as well as build a whole interior. It appears to me that the switch gear is all obviously different, but the motors and structure it's connected to are all the same. The HVAC unit looks different, but has the exact same features, same design, same fans and flapper motors, same wonky "indirect ventilation" on the center of the dash. The sunroof switches are different, but the sunroof functions exactly the same, and has the same design.
The chassis, suspension, driveline, internal structure, and feautures (folding mirrors, sunroof, etc) are all the same. The difference is in the body shell, lights, materials used inside, switch gear, and electronic interfaces.
From what I can tell, the differences that Porsche focused on tweaking, besides the motor, are all in areas where you can see and touch. If you can't see or touch it, it's probably a VW part.
03-29-2014, 09:32 PM
#35
At this point I will still stand by my original analysis and state that dollar for dollar the Treg V8 is a MUCH better deal than the Cayenne S. It has the transfer case (whereas the Cayenne S either doesn't or it is optional) which, when pulling a 7000lb trailer out of the water is nice
03-29-2014, 11:02 PM
#38
What research / info did you find that showed the Cayenne S didn't come with a transfer case?
03-30-2014, 09:42 AM
#40
Nordschleife Master
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Maybe this is where I got my info but didn't read carefully enough...
03-30-2014, 11:53 AM
#41
Moderator !x4
you don't get statements like these everyday, thought it deserved a special mention
"but to me the CTT feels exactly the same as the Treg in "Sport" mode (which the CTT doesn't have)."
"but to me the CTT feels exactly the same as the Treg in "Sport" mode (which the CTT doesn't have)."
03-30-2014, 11:57 AM
#42
Moderator !x4
OK I take it back, most of this is revisionary history which if actual research had been done, public knowledge would have corrected
We had these discussions in 03 with VW fanboys
there is no result possible and they buy androids
We had these discussions in 03 with VW fanboys
there is no result possible and they buy androids
03-30-2014, 12:23 PM
#43
Three Wheelin'
The treg was the first VW I've ever owned. I owned it for 2 months. I wouldn't exactly call that a fan-boy. Go over to club touareg and they'll tell you the treg is the greatest thing alive. A porsche air-cooled purist would scoff at a Cayenne being a "real porsche." You find opinions as common as you find belly buttons. I was simply providing my input after having owned both, and spending time elbows deep fixing things.
03-30-2014, 01:26 PM
#44
03-30-2014, 01:55 PM
#45
Drifting
....anyway I reckon those doors are gonna fit!
Leased a Touareg for a good while years ago in Houston, lots of shared parts...but it ain't anywhere near the same as a Cayenne.
Leased a Touareg for a good while years ago in Houston, lots of shared parts...but it ain't anywhere near the same as a Cayenne.
