flynpch

Got an email from my dealer that they are being advised to tell customers with new diesels to change the oil at 5k miles. Does that mean I have to now change it every 5k miles at $350/change. I will be putting 15k miles per year so the math would suggest I am now incurring an additional $700 of service cost per year. If so, do we have recourse with Porsche North America as this service interval is not in the manual nor disclosed at time of purchase and is highly unusual?

Needsdecaf

As someone who is about to purchase a diesel, this really sucks.

If I change it myself, are there any warranty implications?

sclemmons

Oil and filter at that frequency? Or just oil?

gnat

As long as you keep a record of your work (e.g. Receipts for the oil and filter) they can't say boo in regards to the warranty. Lots of case law to back that up (for any scheduled maintenance).

As far as trying to make a case against them for the increased cost, manufacturers are known to tweak the maintenance guidelines from time to time. Since people would be equally pissed if the 15k changes resulted in a dead engine (not saying it would) outside of warranty, I think they are kinda damned either way in a case like this.

Personally the rumors of the 5k changes were starting when I put my order in back in Sept I think I went into it with my eyes open. I also have never trusted these long change intervals and we change both the 996 and our BMW at 5k even though they say 15. Sometimes we do it and sometimes we have a shop do it. It's just part of owning a car.

gnat

I remember growing up my dad did the filter every other time, but I think the general feeling these days is every time. I don't know if it really makes a difference or if it is just a way to sell more filters, but we replace the filter every time on our cars.

rijowysock

350/change. thats kinda steep...

is it the dealer or porsche? i changed cayenne at 10.. and she was perfect... modern oils are insane.. i just dont believe how it's possible.

TAch Miami

The 5,000 mile oil change will include topping off the adblue which with a full tank, should last 10,000 miles. It’s hard to believe that synthetics won’t make it past 5k miles and there is no need to add adblue until the 1,000 miles remaining warning. The maintenance manual even has a 10k or one year for an oil change and this is after years of these engines in Europe.

My indie will do my yearly oil changes since I seldom exceed 10k miles a year and add adblue when needed. If any engine problems crop up under warranty, I will have my receipts.

gnat

If they change it to 5k and you can't show (should there be an issue and they question it) you met that, they can void it.

Now until they have a record of resetting your MFD to a new interval or mailing you a recall notice (to have the interval reset) they have to continue honoring the warranty as long as you can prove you've followed the documentation/system you were given. My documents weren't updated (and the dealer hadn't heard about this change as of its delivery in Nov), but my MFD appears to have the new 5k interval programmed in.

stronbl

I had my 2013 CD (Oct 2012 build) in a couple weeks ago for some after sales "to be fixed" items. At that time the dealer said I needed the oil sensor campaign update in the onboard computer. I'm at 1800 miles now and looking at the revised oil service indicator suggests I need oil service in another 5300 miles, for a total of ~7100 miles. Somewhere inbetween the 5000 and the 10,000 mile range. I think the TSB on the 5000 miles change for US diesels - which has been posted somewhere in RL - is in effect, but the oil quality sensor/service indicator in the OBC is also valid if you have had the campaign work done, at least that is my understanding at the present time. But I am sure the views from the dealers are all over the place so we may never get a straight answer.

disden

Had my CD in for 5k oil change. That and adblue top off came to $300. I was the first CD service at this dealer, so they didn't know what to quote me even before I took it in.

By the way, I think it's amusing that people spend so much on these cars then get pissed about $300 for oil change. Shoulda bought a Kia.

flynpch

It not just the money. I bought the Diesel as a daily driver with the intent of putting 12-15k miles/yr on it. I hate the thought of going to the dealer 3 times per year and I am still surprised in this day and age that the oil service isn't 15k miles. We are not talking about a 911 Turbo or GT2, its a diesel. I also hate the disclosure side of this as Porsche has had Diesels in the family for years and this service issue may have changed my buy from a Diesel to a GTS.

grohgreg

Without actually realizing, you hit the nail on the head. And it's not only a diesel-only issue, it's pretty much a USA-only issue as well. It has to do with the comparatively poor quality of our diesel fuel. Euro grade fuel has cetane ratings of up to 60, but here in the US we seldom see anything higher than 50. The majority of owners (including myself) have little choice put in crap that's rated between 40 and 45. Should you be unaware, the higher the cetane rating the more complete the burn. That said, I add Power Service to boost the cetane rating in the tank, but it's a poor substitute for quality fuel. And given that this issue doesn't actually affect all diesel owners, they have little choice but to issue guidance based upon the worst case scenario.

In my understanding, the particulate removal system (DPF) was designed around Euro-grade diesel fuel. The DPF active regeneration process sees fuel and DEF (AdBlue) injected into the particulate filter. By some engineering quirk that I don't quite understand, trace amounts of our lower grade fuel finds its way to the crankcase. Not sure, but it might involve the EGR and/or CCV (exhaust gas recirculation and closed crankcase ventilation). Note I said active regeneration above. There's also passive regeneration, which is associated with normal to high speed driving. The exhaust stays hot enough to burn the particulates without the need to inject fuel and DEF. Then during conditions where the exhaust is NOT hot enough, the active regeneration kicks in. It's during the active process that fuel can find its way back to the crankcase, diluting the engine oil.

My take is that the OE oil quality sensor isn't up to the job of monitoring oil/fuel ratio of our lower quality diesel fuel. Ideally Porsche is working on a sensor that is more compatible with the average grade of diesel fuel pumped in the US. And until that time, they have to cover their butts by dropping the oil change periodicity to the worst case 5000 miles. FWIW, I've not heard a peep outa my dealer about this issue. And my MFD still says I'm due the 1st oil/filter change at 5k, then not again until 20k. If/when I get the 5k notice, I plan to change the oil/filter myself. I can get Porsche compatible filters for $12 each online, and buy Porsche C30 approved Mobil 1 ESP locally at the case rate. The $140 price tag on a decent oil extractor should amortize quickly in the face of $300 dealer prices. And DEF top up is a non-issue, as a 2.5 gallon jug only costs $12 around here.

//greg//

KevinGross

It may be just an initial oil change, not a recommendation that you use a 5k interval. It is pretty common to have a short, initial oil change interval.

Kevin
Catellus Engineering

TAch Miami

My CD display says the service interval is 40,000 miles/4 years!

I'm not doing that either and will reset the reminder on my own when needed.

What's up with managing attachments? Upside down when right side up and upside down when upside down.

gjmattos

I have a 2012 X5 diesel and only pay for diesel and tires for 4years/50,000 mi. They even supply the windshield wipers and oil change intervals of 12.000 mi or so. I have a Porsche diesel on order for the wife but it's hard for the math to work out if you take in consideration with Porsche short oil change intervals, adblue price of diesel fuel, You could have had a V8......really. The diesel still has some advantages but these things are going to be a boom for dealers. I don't mind the cost as much as the hassle of the trips to the dealer. If you enjoy the diesel don't try and do the math.