Carrera GT

We looked at Audi Q7 and VW Touareg (not bad, but practically identical to Cayenne with a nicer cabin) and decided the Audi was an abject fail and the VW was the lesser sister to the Porsche.

I absolutely agree the RR is effectively a different vehicle to the Cayenne, it's more a case of a situation like choosing between a luxury car and a sports car. I guess my question here is whether I want the luxury or that handling and driving "edge" that I imagine the Cayenne would deliver.

Carrera GT

I've been getting marketing stuff from Land Rover. Their Web site suggests it's a current "new" vehicle -- ready to build to spec and order. I don't imagine they want to waste a minute getting this to the US market.

http://www.landrover.com/us/en/lr/all-new-range-rover/

I still have reservations about the exterior design -- the lights seems just a bit too stylized. The cabin looks great. The steering wheel is a bit ornate. Nit-picking, I guess. When I look at the Cayenne cabin, not only is it already due for a facelift to catch up to the 991, but it just doesn't appeal in the first place. Hate to think of resale values for a 2013 Cayenne Turbo once the 2013/2014 family facelift hits the market and it becomes "the old model."

Yukio&958

New RR looks like 2012 ford explorer

Cowboys5

Sounds to me like you've already decided what you want, so just get the RR. To say though that the cayenne interior is sub par or is in desperate need of an update is just plain silly. I love it and that's one of the things that sold me.

Carrera GT

Thanks! Very useful to see "real" photos and to get firsthand impressions.

Carrera GT

Yes, it would be silly if someone said "sub par" or "desperate need" ... I'm certainly glad I never said either of those things.

The Cayenne cabin is older than the 991 and is therefore "already due" for an update. Hardly to say sub-par or desperate. I personally just plain don't like the Cayenne cabin. Never have. That doesn't stop me buying the car for other reasons and I chose it in 2005 despite the cabin back then being inferior to the 2005 Prius! And sure enough, the 2012 Cayenne is inferior to the 2012 Prius ... in my humble ... Porsche buys cheap electronics and goes for cheap cabin design and materials ... even in "Full Leather" just compare to an Aston or Rangie and you have to say Porsche is fooling nobody with the 997 Turbo S cabin at $180K, or the Cayenne Turbo Power Kit at $150K, both really are sub par for that price neighborhood.

I'm not overjoyed by the new RR cabins in the last ten years, either, but the quality, design and materials are generous and in keeping with the price tag.

The GL cabin is very good -- still nothing extraordinary, though very good seats, but astonishingly bad electronics (nav, phone integration ... absolutely pathetic for 2005, let alone 2012, but updated a lot for 2013 because Benz realized their customers were not happy ... and I think you can look at the updated BMW cabin as motivation for Benz to catch up.)

RESP

Interesting take on cabin designs.

I quite like the Porsche cabin, but maybe it is about what floats your boat.

No wonder there are so many different car companies, with so many different niche models

bgsntth

I think it is a tough argument to say that a Cayenne has an advantage over a RR in terms of reliability. Both my '08 RRS S\C and '08 FFRR have been the most reliable vehicles I have owned; and, way, way more reliable than my prior '09 GTS. The trick is to never buy in the first year of the model change, as there are ALWAYS electronic bugs to work out. My in-law's 2010 FFRR has had a lot of issues related to the electronics and battery.

The Cayenne is a lot more fun to drive than the RRS or FFRR, but the Landy's are much superior off-road and the FFRR is one of the nicest vehicles to drive I have ever experienced (smooth, cosseted comfort). The 2013 is suppossed to have major changes in the suspension, so it will be interesting to see if the handling has improved. It is also hard to believe the 2013 FFRR lost so much weight and kept its transfer case.

Carrera GT

What's an FFRR?
The 2013 Range Rover lost 420 kilos ... I find it astonishing in two ways: first, to shed 900+ pounds from a car means they really did something ... Porsche shaves off 50 lbs and would have you believe the GT3 RS 4.0 needs to be secured to the ground with tie-downs or it might float away on a breeze ... : ) ... and second, the damn thing is still over 4800lbs! The 2012 Rangie is a heavy damn land yacht!

911SLOW

The day you stop thinking cars on Aussie price terms is the day that you'll probably stop paying in USD for all these heavy, overrated and expensive lorries and their accompanied dilemmas.

You are welcome and I'll be here all week. : )

Carrera GT

You're absolutely right!

Although, I remember it as if it were yesterday, the day I moved from Australia to California, I was stupid for just long enough to buy one of the best 911's -- best cars -- I've ever encountered (the '94 RS America) which was simply unobtainable at home, but in Silicon Valley, they were giving them away with every order of burger with fries and large soda ... the "cheapest" 911 was also by far the best car in the (any) showroom ... the world was truly upside down, and I was happy as a clam.

But it only took a little while longer to acclimate to the local market and decide that cars which cost three times as much and fuel that cost twice as much at home were distant memories and my salary had more than doubled, my living costs were less than half, but that didn't change my humble upbringing to hold on to whatever little money I had, so tight that I could rub the face off a penny.

I still get that same "grinder" reputation when I buy a new car ... the local Porsche and Land Rover dealers do not greet me at the door with a hardy handshake ... : )

gt2r

Do you really drive an SUV off road very often? I have had 4 new Cayenne's since it was first released. Minor problems with the 1st one and no issues since. Even though the low range was nice to have in the snow country that I live in, I have used it 4-5 times in the past 8 years. Either one of these vehicles would do well off road but personally I would never use it off road because of the risk of a pannel ding or branch/brush scatches. I use an suv for hawling dogs, golf clubs, skis and other larger items. I would guess 99% of SUV owners do as well. Besides most of the driving is done on roads/highways where the Cayenne is miles ahead of the Rover

sechsgang

I just had a 2011 RR SC and it was a pretty good truck. Fit an finish were nice, drive was pretty good etc etc. But certain things really bothered me. The Infotainment system is ANTIQUE other than being touchscreen. The audio quality is nice but for a 6 hundred-ish watt system lacked a ton of midrange and the vibrations through the steeringwheel that seemed to come off and on (like a tire balance) throughout all sorts of driving bugged the ever loving hell out of me. So I went and drove a new Cayenne GTS and immediately put an order in for it (always liked the cayenne and this one was just too sweet for me to pass up). The kicker of all this is I sold my RR as to avoid taking a hit and in doing so ended up with a 60k 08 denali that Ill be driving till my GTS gets in (Ok, I have my 997 Turbo S for fun duty so its not like Im "stuck"). And I have to admit, I LOVE the Denali. It handles surprisingly well, has ample power, has an easy to use infotainment system (thats actually on par with the range system at least prior to 2013) and oddly, other than normal truck "vibrations", its SMOOTHER than my range rover. FWIW,the cayenne GTS' steering is GLASS SMOOTH. That alone to me is enough to go into that car because I'm incredibly sensitive to that aspect. Oh, and your GL was smoother steering wise than my range rover was...I looked at them too.

Carrera GT

I'm in the minority as far as using these "soft-road" off-road SUVs. Porsche was always at a loss for the likes of me, asking for low-range transfer case, front diff lock, upgraded PASM with longer travel, snorkel etc. When they came along with the Transylvania, well it was a tad late in the product cycle for me and still short of the mark, but that's where I use the Cayenne and Rangie and others -- deep sand, deep snow, off-road trails, climbing through mountain ranges, or winching and hauling around my property. They tend to lead a tough life, though the GL has had it easiest of all -- no low-range in this model, no easy way to mount a winch without (yet another) custom fabrication, etc. Aside from dirt bike riding in deserts or climbing to out of the way mountain biking, it just does the long legged distance running ... not even much towing of late, just no time for track days and nothing more than firewood or a snowmobile to move around. The diesel gives it great range and it's so insanely quiet at speed, but Distonic (automatic/dynamic cruise control) is now on my "must have" option list for this kind of utility vehicle. Invaluable. The Rangie came back on my shortlist solely because it (and the Cayenne) now offer the smart cruise control.

But this next one will be back to snow express and off-road work, a fabricated winch mount, etc. I'll be selling my spare GL wheels and studded snow tires if I don't the next GL, so I do try to figure in the various costs and pencil in line items against each scenario.

As for wear and tear, I try to keep them in mint condition, but I have no hesitation in using them. All the SUVs, even the (then) absurdly expensive $130K Cayenne was subjected to studded snow tires, chains (not recommend by Porsche) on all wheels, towing over its 7700 limit, a 9500lb winch in the rear hitch receiver for self-recovery and for clearing property, removing downed trees ... you name it. It required little more than a trip to the dealer for some scuffs and dent-pro work to have it back to "showroom" condition. Same for the Rangie when it got buried to the axles in mud on the side of a 1:1 slope and ended up balanced on two wheels, with its winch holding it from rolling over. Took it into the dealer and they complained about it clogging up their detail bay with mud! : ) So much for my Camel Trophy wanna-be experiences ...

sechsgang

^^wow damn if you really use the suv like that and want all the lux then go for the range! Or get a ford raptor...haha.