Autoweek says VWToureg Diesel Twin Turbo coming this fall!
03-30-2003, 01:16 AM
#3
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>Since when do diesels have lots of HP??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">For decades. I will resist the temptation to race off on a tangent about the giant diesels in ocean liners or mining equipment. But look directly at the generation of high pressure direct injection turbo diesels. These things are quiet (without the stereotypical clatter of a diesel) and pick up revs with throttle response capable of being equivalent to a sedan, if not say a high-end sports sedan.
Anyway, the numbers for the VW Touareg TDi :
master/slave 90º (degree) V10
313hp
750Nm (from 2000rpm)
6spd tiptronic
0-100 km/h 7.8sec
max 225 km/h
12.2l per 100 km
I can't say I understand the slow 7.8sec time to 100 km/h which is a half second slower than V8 340hp Cayenne.
Driving the Cayenne Turbo, it handled like the 250lb weight gain from the S was located in the engine bay and gave the care more plow-on understeer. The V10 TDi engine will presumably be at least as heavy as the V8 Turbo, so the Touareg might be quite a pig in handling. I hope not -- that 750Nm of stump-pulling torque will make it a superb off-roader. I hope Porsche is sharing the detachable sway bars with VW.
<strong>Since when do diesels have lots of HP??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">For decades. I will resist the temptation to race off on a tangent about the giant diesels in ocean liners or mining equipment. But look directly at the generation of high pressure direct injection turbo diesels. These things are quiet (without the stereotypical clatter of a diesel) and pick up revs with throttle response capable of being equivalent to a sedan, if not say a high-end sports sedan.
Anyway, the numbers for the VW Touareg TDi :
master/slave 90º (degree) V10
313hp
750Nm (from 2000rpm)
6spd tiptronic
0-100 km/h 7.8sec
max 225 km/h
12.2l per 100 km
I can't say I understand the slow 7.8sec time to 100 km/h which is a half second slower than V8 340hp Cayenne.
Driving the Cayenne Turbo, it handled like the 250lb weight gain from the S was located in the engine bay and gave the care more plow-on understeer. The V10 TDi engine will presumably be at least as heavy as the V8 Turbo, so the Touareg might be quite a pig in handling. I hope not -- that 750Nm of stump-pulling torque will make it a superb off-roader. I hope Porsche is sharing the detachable sway bars with VW.
03-30-2003, 12:34 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
TDI engine is much heavier than V8. Look Touareg specs:
Touareg V8 2320 kg
v10 DIESEL 2530 kg.
Hevier 210 kilos, all on the fron axle.
Cayenne S 2220 Kg
Cayenne Turbo 2355 Kg
Hevier 125 kg-s.
So, Cayenne is considerably lighter than Touareg!
Touareg V8 2320 kg
v10 DIESEL 2530 kg.
Hevier 210 kilos, all on the fron axle.
Cayenne S 2220 Kg
Cayenne Turbo 2355 Kg
Hevier 125 kg-s.
So, Cayenne is considerably lighter than Touareg!
03-30-2003, 01:51 PM
#5
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Jack Ennuste:
<strong>Jack Ennuste
Carrera 993'95
TPC supercharger</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for doing the research into weights.
How's that TPC kit going in the 993? That must be quite the rocket. Do you know if TPC plan on doing the Cayenne? They were first out with a bolt-on blower for the Boxster. This should be a great business for them.
Hopefully they'll go to a twin-screw for the V8 with more space under the hood.
Cheers,
ps. For US readers, a Kg is about 2.2lbs. That's some heft. Some of the weight difference is in the air suspension, but otherwise, as you say, for the Turbo and TDi, it's all hanging over the front axle doing no good for polar moments etc etc.
<strong>Jack Ennuste
Carrera 993'95
TPC supercharger</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks for doing the research into weights.
How's that TPC kit going in the 993? That must be quite the rocket. Do you know if TPC plan on doing the Cayenne? They were first out with a bolt-on blower for the Boxster. This should be a great business for them.
Hopefully they'll go to a twin-screw for the V8 with more space under the hood.
Cheers,
ps. For US readers, a Kg is about 2.2lbs. That's some heft. Some of the weight difference is in the air suspension, but otherwise, as you say, for the Turbo and TDi, it's all hanging over the front axle doing no good for polar moments etc etc.
03-30-2003, 02:11 PM
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Jack,
Thanks for the conformation on the weights. I'd heard that the Touareg was going to be about 500lbs heavier. This would suggest that it wouldn't really be in the same "sport' category as the Porsche. Since the sizes are similar, then I presume they will have the similar "utility" (except for the diesel's towing ability?).
There was, hopefully, a handshake deal between Porsche and VW at the outset as to which segments they would each address, and they probably recognised that there would be a little cross-over.
Apparently, the Touareg will be "no substitute" for the Cayenne.
Thanks for the conformation on the weights. I'd heard that the Touareg was going to be about 500lbs heavier. This would suggest that it wouldn't really be in the same "sport' category as the Porsche. Since the sizes are similar, then I presume they will have the similar "utility" (except for the diesel's towing ability?).
There was, hopefully, a handshake deal between Porsche and VW at the outset as to which segments they would each address, and they probably recognised that there would be a little cross-over.
Apparently, the Touareg will be "no substitute" for the Cayenne.
03-30-2003, 03:00 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Carrera GT look more from <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007877" target="_blank">http://forums.rennlist.com/forums/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007877</a>
Colm: do You Americans understand kilograms? I have to search for internet converer every time I read weights in lbs
At least drug dealers in USA calculate with kilos??? As seen in the movies.
210 kg (difference between C Turbo and Touareg V10 Diesel) is excactly 463 lbs !
Colm: do You Americans understand kilograms? I have to search for internet converer every time I read weights in lbs
At least drug dealers in USA calculate with kilos??? As seen in the movies.210 kg (difference between C Turbo and Touareg V10 Diesel) is excactly 463 lbs !
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03-30-2003, 06:20 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>Since when do diesels have lots of HP??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sadly diesels have been unknowns in the US. While I was working in Europe I had the oportunity to drive a bunch of them. Most rental cars are diesels, usually turbocharged. Fuel economy if fantastic, and they have mightly torque. Granted they do not sound or feel like preformance engines, most will die over 4500 rpm, but I must tell you that diesels have come a long way to being realy competitive with normal cars and hands down winners on the gas pump.
personally i think the T-egg should be just perfect with the TT diesel engine especially with the present gas prices. Why people expect sports car handling from any SUV in beyond me. People accepting 10mph to the gallon on an SUV is even more incredible...
<strong>Since when do diesels have lots of HP??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Sadly diesels have been unknowns in the US. While I was working in Europe I had the oportunity to drive a bunch of them. Most rental cars are diesels, usually turbocharged. Fuel economy if fantastic, and they have mightly torque. Granted they do not sound or feel like preformance engines, most will die over 4500 rpm, but I must tell you that diesels have come a long way to being realy competitive with normal cars and hands down winners on the gas pump.
personally i think the T-egg should be just perfect with the TT diesel engine especially with the present gas prices. Why people expect sports car handling from any SUV in beyond me. People accepting 10mph to the gallon on an SUV is even more incredible...
03-30-2003, 07:13 PM
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According to Autoweek the 5.0L V-10 TDi is supposedly scheduled for next Spring, not Fall of this year.
It has 313hp, but the important power statistic is 553lb-ft (!) of torque. To handle that, the Touareg must have a significant number of beefed-up components relative to the V8, it would not simply be heavier in front--although it no doubt will be. Same thing that happens to supercharged AMG's versus basic Merc models, and why a GT-3 with partly stripped interior weighs more than a 996 C2.
It is also said to make 24mpg, so it is clearly NOT intended to be positioned versus against the Cayenne Turbo which is more like 10-12mpg.
That version would be the W12, with 420hp, 405lb-ft of torque, probably list for $60,000.
It has 313hp, but the important power statistic is 553lb-ft (!) of torque. To handle that, the Touareg must have a significant number of beefed-up components relative to the V8, it would not simply be heavier in front--although it no doubt will be. Same thing that happens to supercharged AMG's versus basic Merc models, and why a GT-3 with partly stripped interior weighs more than a 996 C2.
It is also said to make 24mpg, so it is clearly NOT intended to be positioned versus against the Cayenne Turbo which is more like 10-12mpg.
That version would be the W12, with 420hp, 405lb-ft of torque, probably list for $60,000.
03-30-2003, 08:16 PM
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<a href="http://www.rallypartsireland.com/DakarPhotos/" target="_blank">http://www.rallypartsireland.com/DakarPhotos/</a>
Is it going to have a body like that, or more like what we've seen in the news releases?
Is it going to have a body like that, or more like what we've seen in the news releases?
03-31-2003, 03:39 AM
#13
Nordschleife Master
I'm well aware that diesels have killer torque...and that they redline around 4500 (based on those that I've seen)...I saw a huge number of diesels in europe...
However, aren't diesels in general more of a torque monster than a horsepower powerhouse?
However, aren't diesels in general more of a torque monster than a horsepower powerhouse?
03-31-2003, 08:35 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>
However, aren't diesels in general more of a torque monster than a horsepower powerhouse?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">True, very true, however Torque is what counts on the day to day life of a street car. Not to mention pulling capacity...
<strong>
However, aren't diesels in general more of a torque monster than a horsepower powerhouse?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">True, very true, however Torque is what counts on the day to day life of a street car. Not to mention pulling capacity...