fortune article
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fortune article
<a href="http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ceo/articles/0,15114,418670-2,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ceo/articles/0,15114,418670-2,00.html</a>
Guys, read this; CEO basically contradicts his meaning of Porsche...
and this letter to Autoextremist has a point:
The Real Crime Committed By Porsche.
I enjoy reading your constant rants about Porsche and the Cayenne. Personally, I don't begrudge the fact that they have succumbed to their greed and produced an SUV - companies are full of people who want to make a wad of money. Yeah, sure, they blather on about how the Cayenne is the Porsche of SUVs (I guess it's got the same DNA). Big Deal. I always thought of Porsche as more than just a sports car company anyway. Rather, an avant-garde company - a company on the cutting edge of ideas and technology. So I can cope with the fact that the Cayenne isn't anything like a 911. What is inexcusable is that they were not among the first to produce a modern SUV - nevermind that they are most definitely the last company to join the fray. Porsche coming out with a shiny new SUV in 2003 makes about as much sense as Apple introducing a fabulous new web browser - smart idea if it was 1993, incredibly dumb if it's 2003.
Guys, read this; CEO basically contradicts his meaning of Porsche...
and this letter to Autoextremist has a point:
The Real Crime Committed By Porsche.
I enjoy reading your constant rants about Porsche and the Cayenne. Personally, I don't begrudge the fact that they have succumbed to their greed and produced an SUV - companies are full of people who want to make a wad of money. Yeah, sure, they blather on about how the Cayenne is the Porsche of SUVs (I guess it's got the same DNA). Big Deal. I always thought of Porsche as more than just a sports car company anyway. Rather, an avant-garde company - a company on the cutting edge of ideas and technology. So I can cope with the fact that the Cayenne isn't anything like a 911. What is inexcusable is that they were not among the first to produce a modern SUV - nevermind that they are most definitely the last company to join the fray. Porsche coming out with a shiny new SUV in 2003 makes about as much sense as Apple introducing a fabulous new web browser - smart idea if it was 1993, incredibly dumb if it's 2003.
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From: Chevy Chase, MD
Thanks for the link, Watt! That was a very informative article, and to the extent we can trust that the writer's facts are sound, and comport with Wiedeking's view of recent Porsche history, we don't have to pontificate/speculate/fill-in anymore about when decisions were made and by whom, and what the logic was behind them. One thing that is true, however, and like it or not, is that the modern company called Porsche has grown to be very much the mirror image of its CEO.
Also, while the success of the Cayenne is being reported as an automatic, foregone conclusion, note the hint in the article about the development of a wagon, perhaps crossover, as insurance. It generally wouldn't make sense to me to manufacture the Cayenne, in its present form, and a wagon at the same time, but perhaps they've infused the Cayenne with such offroad prowess (a loaded term around here, I know) that it could be clearly differentiated from a wagon which would lack such prowess, but likely have very similar on-road performance and storage capacity. Hmmm, food for thought.
Thanks again.
Also, while the success of the Cayenne is being reported as an automatic, foregone conclusion, note the hint in the article about the development of a wagon, perhaps crossover, as insurance. It generally wouldn't make sense to me to manufacture the Cayenne, in its present form, and a wagon at the same time, but perhaps they've infused the Cayenne with such offroad prowess (a loaded term around here, I know) that it could be clearly differentiated from a wagon which would lack such prowess, but likely have very similar on-road performance and storage capacity. Hmmm, food for thought.
Thanks again.
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From: Naples, FL
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by watt:
<strong>Porsche coming out with a shiny new SUV in 2003 makes about as much sense as Apple introducing a fabulous new web browser</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The fabulous new web browser is called "Safari", beta for now, but it works great! Simple, quick and very streamlined.
Get it here ------------><a href="http://www.apple.com/safari" target="_blank">Apple</a>
The sad thing is this cool new browser is only available to users of the world's best working, easiest to use and beautifully designed computers.
The beautiful and thoughtfully splendid Porsche Cayenne however, can be driven by all!
Get it here ------------><a href="http://www3.porsche.com/countryselector.htm" target="_blank">Porsche</a>
<strong>Porsche coming out with a shiny new SUV in 2003 makes about as much sense as Apple introducing a fabulous new web browser</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The fabulous new web browser is called "Safari", beta for now, but it works great! Simple, quick and very streamlined.
Get it here ------------><a href="http://www.apple.com/safari" target="_blank">Apple</a>
The sad thing is this cool new browser is only available to users of the world's best working, easiest to use and beautifully designed computers.
The beautiful and thoughtfully splendid Porsche Cayenne however, can be driven by all!
Get it here ------------><a href="http://www3.porsche.com/countryselector.htm" target="_blank">Porsche</a>
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Here I Go. 
Open your EYES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Read the forward in Excellence. I'm sure Wiedeking will have that guy fired somehow like he did Schwab.
In summary.
Cayenne, new tech, 8 cyl.TT , more metal, more leather about $80K.
996TT, old tech, 6 cyl. TT, less metal, less leather about $116K.
Anyone of us could have increased shareholder equity while..
1) Cutting the Race Program--
Leaving the soul of P-car owners behind.
2) Ride the skirts of Boxster sales--
New buyers were welcomed to the rudeness of
Porsche Sales and Service. It's note quite
Lexus or MB here. I don't hear of many Boxster
buyers re-upping for another one.
3) Outsource production--
Production & parts with Japanese
trannies for the Cayenne.
4) Assembly line productivity--
I preferred the hand made,hand screwed door
and sound of my 993 than I do of my plastic
tabs on my new 996. I thought thats why I
paid over $95K for my cab.
5, 6, 7, blah blah blah. Off to bed. Sorry.
Tom
02C4 Cab
ex 97S
Open your EYES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Read the forward in Excellence. I'm sure Wiedeking will have that guy fired somehow like he did Schwab.
In summary.
Cayenne, new tech, 8 cyl.TT , more metal, more leather about $80K.
996TT, old tech, 6 cyl. TT, less metal, less leather about $116K.
Anyone of us could have increased shareholder equity while..
1) Cutting the Race Program--
Leaving the soul of P-car owners behind.
2) Ride the skirts of Boxster sales--
New buyers were welcomed to the rudeness of
Porsche Sales and Service. It's note quite
Lexus or MB here. I don't hear of many Boxster
buyers re-upping for another one.
3) Outsource production--
Production & parts with Japanese
trannies for the Cayenne.
4) Assembly line productivity--
I preferred the hand made,hand screwed door
and sound of my 993 than I do of my plastic
tabs on my new 996. I thought thats why I
paid over $95K for my cab.
5, 6, 7, blah blah blah. Off to bed. Sorry.
Tom
02C4 Cab
ex 97S
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,620
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From: Centennial Colorado
It also might be worth noting that the editors of road and track(or was it C&D??) picked the Touareg as there favorite SUV, they totaly loved it. and kept mentioning the fact that it was half the cost of the porsche.
Way to go Wiedeass
Way to go Wiedeass
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From: Porschetown, Germany
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by M Danger:
<strong>It also might be worth noting that the editors of road and track(or was it C&D??) picked the Touareg as there favorite SUV, they totaly loved it. and kept mentioning the fact that it was half the cost of the porsche. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">..ahhh, now that must be the reason why Porsche has sold 25.000 Cayennes and VW 2.000 Touaregs so far...
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Way to go Wiedeass</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Are you <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> ?? Without Mr. Wiedeking Porsche would be bankrupt. Plain and simple.
<strong>It also might be worth noting that the editors of road and track(or was it C&D??) picked the Touareg as there favorite SUV, they totaly loved it. and kept mentioning the fact that it was half the cost of the porsche. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">..ahhh, now that must be the reason why Porsche has sold 25.000 Cayennes and VW 2.000 Touaregs so far...
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Way to go Wiedeass</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Are you <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> ?? Without Mr. Wiedeking Porsche would be bankrupt. Plain and simple.
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From: Orange County
ngfan:
No border wars OK. But MDANGER is pretty accurate.
As someone who has dealt extensively with German companies engineering and sales departments(medical equipment), I can honestly say that they all treated products SOLD to their US marketing arm as SOLD.
Unfortunately, the pull through to U.S. customers was left up to U.S. division. The Germans never understood that their products were often priced out of the market, designed for ROW use, and had average support.
The attitude was it was superior, will last forever, the ROW accepts it as the standard of care and the doctors must not understand it because...IT WAS GERMAN ENGINEERED SO IT IS FLAWLESS. Honestly, a bit much to take.
Tom
No border wars OK. But MDANGER is pretty accurate.
As someone who has dealt extensively with German companies engineering and sales departments(medical equipment), I can honestly say that they all treated products SOLD to their US marketing arm as SOLD.
Unfortunately, the pull through to U.S. customers was left up to U.S. division. The Germans never understood that their products were often priced out of the market, designed for ROW use, and had average support.
The attitude was it was superior, will last forever, the ROW accepts it as the standard of care and the doctors must not understand it because...IT WAS GERMAN ENGINEERED SO IT IS FLAWLESS. Honestly, a bit much to take.
Tom
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Thread Starter
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From: Way Back In, New Zealand
I remember i wrote a tirade to fred schwab in 1991 about my 1991 C2 being too luxurious and too much like a MB -not 1971S enough for me-, and if i wanted a MB instead of a sports car, i would go buy one and i went off and bought a 600sl. Yeeech.
Porsche are a business now, maxing the the cash. the love of the end product seems muted and faint, but for the [bright] glimmers one sees in the the very $$$ models. However,The fact that they build a TT Cayenne is pure porsche in spirit and gives me hope.
Porsche are a business now, maxing the the cash. the love of the end product seems muted and faint, but for the [bright] glimmers one sees in the the very $$$ models. However,The fact that they build a TT Cayenne is pure porsche in spirit and gives me hope.
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From: Scotland
For those who've also read the thread regarding the CAR test of the Cayenne, ML and X5 it's worth hunting out a copy for the articles on pages 60 and 88.
Page 66 is a comparison test between the Boxster Z4 and TT - the conclusion - quote
"The Porsche isn't as extroverted as the BMW or as introverted as the TT. Instead it is homogeneous and creamy - a little toned down, perhaps, but no less convincing for that. If you hate drama, take the Audi. If you love drama, take the Z4. If you couldn't care less about drama, take the Porsche. It will pump as much adrenalin as you can handle, yet at the same time it will always deliver in a sublime, telepathic, sweet mannered way - seven days a week, rain or shine, distance no object, any challenge accepted. That's the Z4 done. Right, who's next then?"
Onto page 88 and please - buy a copy because there are stunning photographs of almost exactly where I live. The review is of a wet and windy New Year road test of the 996 C4S in the Scottish Highlands - the conclusion - quote -
"After two days around Glencoe, I head home, late in the afternoon, and take the back roads all the way from the North-West Highlands to the North-East of England, a three hour non-stop blast across country. Afterwards I feel like I've been holding my breath the whole way. I've been lucky enough in my job to drive Ferraris through the south of France, those Lamborghinis in Italy. I've got my mental list of Top Ten Great Drives Of All Time in my head, and those three hours in the Carrera 4S are now firmly fixed in the top three. If I had the money I'd go out and buy one of these things tomorrow and drive it every single day of the year. Less scary than the GT2, more focused than the regular coupe, I reckon the new Carrera 4S is the most useable 911 you can buy. And north or south, wet or dry, it makes no difference: it's also one of the most accomplished all-weather sports cars in the world."
Not bad press for a company run by accountants.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
Page 66 is a comparison test between the Boxster Z4 and TT - the conclusion - quote
"The Porsche isn't as extroverted as the BMW or as introverted as the TT. Instead it is homogeneous and creamy - a little toned down, perhaps, but no less convincing for that. If you hate drama, take the Audi. If you love drama, take the Z4. If you couldn't care less about drama, take the Porsche. It will pump as much adrenalin as you can handle, yet at the same time it will always deliver in a sublime, telepathic, sweet mannered way - seven days a week, rain or shine, distance no object, any challenge accepted. That's the Z4 done. Right, who's next then?"
Onto page 88 and please - buy a copy because there are stunning photographs of almost exactly where I live. The review is of a wet and windy New Year road test of the 996 C4S in the Scottish Highlands - the conclusion - quote -
"After two days around Glencoe, I head home, late in the afternoon, and take the back roads all the way from the North-West Highlands to the North-East of England, a three hour non-stop blast across country. Afterwards I feel like I've been holding my breath the whole way. I've been lucky enough in my job to drive Ferraris through the south of France, those Lamborghinis in Italy. I've got my mental list of Top Ten Great Drives Of All Time in my head, and those three hours in the Carrera 4S are now firmly fixed in the top three. If I had the money I'd go out and buy one of these things tomorrow and drive it every single day of the year. Less scary than the GT2, more focused than the regular coupe, I reckon the new Carrera 4S is the most useable 911 you can buy. And north or south, wet or dry, it makes no difference: it's also one of the most accomplished all-weather sports cars in the world."
Not bad press for a company run by accountants.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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From: Porschetown, Germany
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom 97 C2-S, So. Cal.:
<strong>ngfan:
No border wars OK. But MDANGER is pretty accurate.
Tom</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, Tom, I can't see where I started any border war
... and I cannot see much accuracy in MDANGER's post either.
The Touareg isn't half the price of a Cayenne, at least over here. Instead they come pretty close prizewise. That's one of the reasons why VW has big sale problems with its Touareg. The usual Volkswagen customer in Germany just won't spend $ 75.000 for a VW. VW faces the same image problem with the Touareg as they do with the Phaeton.
To call Mr. Wiedeking "Wiedeass" is simply outrageous, don't you think ?
It is pretty legitimate to discuss management decisions in an unemotional way. But to portray the PAG CEO like he did totally disregards Mr. Wiedeking's successful efforts to safe PAG and steer it through the shallow waters of recession.
<strong>ngfan:
No border wars OK. But MDANGER is pretty accurate.
Tom</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, Tom, I can't see where I started any border war
... and I cannot see much accuracy in MDANGER's post either.The Touareg isn't half the price of a Cayenne, at least over here. Instead they come pretty close prizewise. That's one of the reasons why VW has big sale problems with its Touareg. The usual Volkswagen customer in Germany just won't spend $ 75.000 for a VW. VW faces the same image problem with the Touareg as they do with the Phaeton.
To call Mr. Wiedeking "Wiedeass" is simply outrageous, don't you think ?
It is pretty legitimate to discuss management decisions in an unemotional way. But to portray the PAG CEO like he did totally disregards Mr. Wiedeking's successful efforts to safe PAG and steer it through the shallow waters of recession.
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From: Milton, MA
Interesting article - he certainly doesn't suffer from ego, but not many CEOs do... <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />
This whole P-fish affair sure does makes for good copy...
This whole P-fish affair sure does makes for good copy...
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NGFAN:
Sorry. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> My comment thought vs. written came off not as intended. We all love the marque, but various continents and regions get and have different perspectives.
The accuracy from MDANGER is in how Porsche GMBH treats cars "sold". PO's from the Porsche US/Porsche US Dealers don't represent cars sold to conumers.
My reference to the medical business, is that the German manufactures I deal with treat sales the same way both from an accounting and marketing position.
Hey, who would not want to be a shareholder.
Regards,
Tom
Sorry. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> My comment thought vs. written came off not as intended. We all love the marque, but various continents and regions get and have different perspectives.
The accuracy from MDANGER is in how Porsche GMBH treats cars "sold". PO's from the Porsche US/Porsche US Dealers don't represent cars sold to conumers.
My reference to the medical business, is that the German manufactures I deal with treat sales the same way both from an accounting and marketing position.
Hey, who would not want to be a shareholder.
Regards,
Tom
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From: Porschetown, Germany
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom 97 C2-S, So. Cal.:
<strong>NGFAN:
Sorry. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> My comment thought vs. written came off not as intended. We all love the marque, but various continents and regions get and have different perspectives.
The accuracy from MDANGER is in how Porsche GMBH treats cars "sold". PO's from the Porsche US/Porsche US Dealers don't represent cars sold to conumers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> Alright, don't worry, now I got your message
Regards,
NGFAN
BTW: So.Cal. = LAX or La Jolla ?
<strong>NGFAN:
Sorry. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> My comment thought vs. written came off not as intended. We all love the marque, but various continents and regions get and have different perspectives.
The accuracy from MDANGER is in how Porsche GMBH treats cars "sold". PO's from the Porsche US/Porsche US Dealers don't represent cars sold to conumers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"><img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> Alright, don't worry, now I got your message
Regards,
NGFAN
BTW: So.Cal. = LAX or La Jolla ?