Drove Cayenne S and Turbo back to back
03-21-2003, 01:10 AM
#1
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Drove Cayenne S and Turbo back to back
Circumstances permitted me to drive both the S and the Turbo back to back over the space of about an hour yesterday. Tremendous fun. Each time I drive the Cayenne, I like it all the more. I decided to put a deposit on the S in silver with black and I'll wait until they build it with air suspension and detachable sway bars. Should be June or July. The sticker worked out to $72K ... so much for $55,900. I can't say I'm impressed with Porsche and the numbers they write on the options list or the options that just plain should be standard equipment.
Back to the driving, I found two things that I just couldn't "drive around" in the Turbo -- first, the throttle response is too smooth (sp?) on the Turbo, lacking the "relentless" force I wanted to feel. S,econd, the Turbo has plow-on understeer on 20" wheels and the suspension set to low/sport, whereas the S seemed pretty neutral (with 18" wheels on steel springs) and despite repeated attempts to get the Turbo to balance, I just couldn't get that big dog to heel.
Maybe it was me getting too excited, but the dealer didn't seem to think it was abnormal or unacceptable. Maybe it was the "Servotronic" steering that actually seems to make the steering feel a little dead compared to the standard power assist and so tend to induce more lock than appropriate. Servotronic gives Cadillac levels of assistance at walking pace but quickly drops to normal Porsche-like levels above about 40mph. It seems also to react to the "work" of the steering input, offering more assistance as the driver takes the car through more vigorous cornering. Or so it seemed.
I was hoping for more thunder from the Turbo (I have a supercharged Tahoe and it has better throttle reponse and certainly much more lively acceleration from a standstill or at over-taking speeds.)
Perhaps the four wheel traction and PTM and PSM et al holds the Turbo back -- you have to wait half way through the rev range for the turbos to spool up and then, sure enough all in a split second, the boost comes on and the transmission whips the engine from red-line into the next gear, so you feel the torque convertor stealing tenths of a second as it trys to rein back 450 horses.
All that said, driving the Turbo was exhilirating, it certainly feels faster and more agile than the ML55. Maybe if I had lesser expectations, I might have been better pleased. I think I'm also just not on board with the US$100K sticker.
It seems to me that the S and the Turbo are not trying to play straight line performance as a trump suit. In fact, it seems like the Cayenne is more an off-road vehicle than on-road. Sure enough it has great on-road manners, but I just don't see how it can ever live up to the expectations of that badge.
I look forward to seeing Cayennes lining the paddock at every race event across the planet -- if you're going to buy an SUV, send the revenue to a company you love.
Adam
Back to the driving, I found two things that I just couldn't "drive around" in the Turbo -- first, the throttle response is too smooth (sp?) on the Turbo, lacking the "relentless" force I wanted to feel. S,econd, the Turbo has plow-on understeer on 20" wheels and the suspension set to low/sport, whereas the S seemed pretty neutral (with 18" wheels on steel springs) and despite repeated attempts to get the Turbo to balance, I just couldn't get that big dog to heel.
Maybe it was me getting too excited, but the dealer didn't seem to think it was abnormal or unacceptable. Maybe it was the "Servotronic" steering that actually seems to make the steering feel a little dead compared to the standard power assist and so tend to induce more lock than appropriate. Servotronic gives Cadillac levels of assistance at walking pace but quickly drops to normal Porsche-like levels above about 40mph. It seems also to react to the "work" of the steering input, offering more assistance as the driver takes the car through more vigorous cornering. Or so it seemed.
I was hoping for more thunder from the Turbo (I have a supercharged Tahoe and it has better throttle reponse and certainly much more lively acceleration from a standstill or at over-taking speeds.)
Perhaps the four wheel traction and PTM and PSM et al holds the Turbo back -- you have to wait half way through the rev range for the turbos to spool up and then, sure enough all in a split second, the boost comes on and the transmission whips the engine from red-line into the next gear, so you feel the torque convertor stealing tenths of a second as it trys to rein back 450 horses.
All that said, driving the Turbo was exhilirating, it certainly feels faster and more agile than the ML55. Maybe if I had lesser expectations, I might have been better pleased. I think I'm also just not on board with the US$100K sticker.
It seems to me that the S and the Turbo are not trying to play straight line performance as a trump suit. In fact, it seems like the Cayenne is more an off-road vehicle than on-road. Sure enough it has great on-road manners, but I just don't see how it can ever live up to the expectations of that badge.
I look forward to seeing Cayennes lining the paddock at every race event across the planet -- if you're going to buy an SUV, send the revenue to a company you love.
Adam
03-21-2003, 10:36 AM
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honestly who is going to do any Serious OFF ROADING in a Cayenne?,,,the New Porsche paint is notorious for scratching and chipping on the raod cars. Off road, rubbing bushes and sand will scrape off ALL the paint in seconds....Sorry, but yeah the Pepper has ALL the potential in the world. But no one is going to be stupid enough to put the pepper through its paces off road. By Off Rad, I dont mean, romping through 2" of snow or driving on a dirt road....I mean REAL Off Roading
03-21-2003, 11:37 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by watt:
<strong>Now that ebay is the marginal price indicator, it's pretty clear the pig ain't sellin'.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What are you talking about? I don't see any great Cayenne deals on eBay. I've sold three cars privately though eBay and it's an interesting process. Newer higher spec cars rarely sell directly through eBay. It's more of a marketing vehicle to generate interest. Most buyers prefer to work a deal directly with the seller rather than go through the auction process at the price points were talking about.
You do understand how eBay works right? You realize that the current bids on their web site don't relate to the actual trading prices, don't you?
<strong>Now that ebay is the marginal price indicator, it's pretty clear the pig ain't sellin'.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What are you talking about? I don't see any great Cayenne deals on eBay. I've sold three cars privately though eBay and it's an interesting process. Newer higher spec cars rarely sell directly through eBay. It's more of a marketing vehicle to generate interest. Most buyers prefer to work a deal directly with the seller rather than go through the auction process at the price points were talking about.
You do understand how eBay works right? You realize that the current bids on their web site don't relate to the actual trading prices, don't you?
03-22-2003, 03:07 AM
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Any of you guy's ever hear the expression "if you don't have anything good to say don't say it". Almost every time someone is excited about purchasing this vehicle some of you guys have to post something negative. Please next time post what you drive so I can use every opportunity to tell you what junk you drive.
03-22-2003, 03:32 AM
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oooh you boys are defensive. here's the latest from autoextremist:
As was reported in Automotive News this week, if eBay is any sort of barometer, the Cayenne is in trouble. The eBay website has become a hotbed of buying and selling for all of the "first-on-the-block" lemmings who want a crack at the latest and greatest cars, either before or right when they first come out. Dealers have mined this phenomenon quite skillfully by putting hard-to-come-by cars on the website, bidding up prices way over sticker. Funny thing is, the Cayenne SUV has been its own version of the Titanic right out of the gate - at least when it comes to the eBay bazaar. Buyers wouldn't even bid near the sticker price for any of the Cayennes on the site. A Canadian dealer tried to get $5,000 over sticker for a Cayenne Turbo and didn't receive one bid. And a Texas dealer couldn't even get sticker for an S model, so the bidding ended with it going unsold. As Peter said many times before over the last three-and-one-half years, "The Cayenne is the wrong vehicle at the wrong time from the wrong car company." And judging by the soaring gas prices and plunging SUV sales, his words ring more prophetic than ever. Still convinced the Cayenne will be successful, Wendelin? You and your loyalists are probably the only ones left convinced of that.
As was reported in Automotive News this week, if eBay is any sort of barometer, the Cayenne is in trouble. The eBay website has become a hotbed of buying and selling for all of the "first-on-the-block" lemmings who want a crack at the latest and greatest cars, either before or right when they first come out. Dealers have mined this phenomenon quite skillfully by putting hard-to-come-by cars on the website, bidding up prices way over sticker. Funny thing is, the Cayenne SUV has been its own version of the Titanic right out of the gate - at least when it comes to the eBay bazaar. Buyers wouldn't even bid near the sticker price for any of the Cayennes on the site. A Canadian dealer tried to get $5,000 over sticker for a Cayenne Turbo and didn't receive one bid. And a Texas dealer couldn't even get sticker for an S model, so the bidding ended with it going unsold. As Peter said many times before over the last three-and-one-half years, "The Cayenne is the wrong vehicle at the wrong time from the wrong car company." And judging by the soaring gas prices and plunging SUV sales, his words ring more prophetic than ever. Still convinced the Cayenne will be successful, Wendelin? You and your loyalists are probably the only ones left convinced of that.
03-22-2003, 04:09 AM
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They failed to mention all of the people that purchased the rights to buy one for $500 to $2500.. and as Jim Lamb mentioned ebay is more of a advertising tool... check to see how many cars actually meet reserve.. very few. most deals are done out of e-bay.. E-bay is no barometer what so ever to see how a car is doing overall... As I said before to all of the bashers.. the verdict is out, majority of the people are surpirsed that it looks better in person than on there 17" Computer Screen.. If you don't like it go start a forum... <a href="http://www.icantaffordacayenne.com" target="_blank">www.icantaffordacayenne.com</a> 
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03-22-2003, 08:41 AM
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Watt,
In all fairness, autoextremist has been very biased against the Cayenne all along, and does not strike me as the voice of authority. It would be more valid to look at dealership sales data.
Based on my personal needs (or wants) for a truck, I chose a Range Rover over the Cayenne, but that does not preclude me from respecting what Porsche has been able to accomplish with the Cayenne. I think it will sell well.
For those anti-Cayenne folks that feel that Porsche has "lost its way", it may help to remember that the company has recently brought the GT2, GT3, and Carrera GT to market. Pretty decent sports car offerings, I'd say.
If I may be so bold, it would be nice if some of the posters on this Cayenne board would join Rennlist to support John D's efforts. It's only $17, and I think we can all afford it.
In all fairness, autoextremist has been very biased against the Cayenne all along, and does not strike me as the voice of authority. It would be more valid to look at dealership sales data.
Based on my personal needs (or wants) for a truck, I chose a Range Rover over the Cayenne, but that does not preclude me from respecting what Porsche has been able to accomplish with the Cayenne. I think it will sell well.
For those anti-Cayenne folks that feel that Porsche has "lost its way", it may help to remember that the company has recently brought the GT2, GT3, and Carrera GT to market. Pretty decent sports car offerings, I'd say.
If I may be so bold, it would be nice if some of the posters on this Cayenne board would join Rennlist to support John D's efforts. It's only $17, and I think we can all afford it.