First 1000 miles - The complete experience (long)
04-07-2003, 06:23 PM
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First 1000 miles - The complete experience (long)
Well, I’ve put 1000 on the car so far and I just wanted to pass on the total ownership experience for those that may be considering the Cayenne or those that have already committed to the Cayenne.
Rationale behind the purchase of the Cayenne (or “Why would I or anyone need or want to buy a Cayenne) – I have always owned German and Italian cars. I had owned, just prior to the Cayenne purchase, a 95 993 Carrera, 90 Mercedes 420 SEL, 02 Jeep Wrangler, and my wife’s 03 Honda Pilot (somewhere there’s an 86 Alfa Spyder in storage but that’s a whole other thread). I had purchased the Jeep because we have a 16,000 acre ranch in west Texas that we like to spend some of our weekends, especially during hunting season, and the Jeep was to be my off-roader. However, after 1 year with the Jeep, I realized that there just wasn’t enough room for all my gear and the softtop did not provide the security I needed when carrying thousands of dollars worth of gear. The S-Class was my daily driver, but I had always wished that I could drive the Porsche on a daily basis. Having a 7 year old, it just wasn’t possible to drive the Porsche daily as I never knew if I might have to pick him up from school at the last minute. When the Cayenne came out, I realized that it could take the place of both the S-Class and the Jeep. Nothing can replace a 911, so now it lives in the garage next to the wife’s Pilot and the new Cayenne. For anyone who wants a car that can take them hunting or offroading through some hardcore trails during the day and have enough cache to take them to nice social functions at night, has enough room for the family and its gear but drives and handles like a sports car instead of a big land barge, then the Cayenne is the perfect vehicle for you.
Other cars I considered include the Cayenne Turbo (Tons of power, but I’ve got the new Aston Martin AM-V8 on order and 2 super fast cars per family is plenty. Almost too good, but not $30k better than Cayenne S), G-Class Mercedes (I’ve wanted one since the mid 80’s, but after finally driving one, it feels like there is no power steering and daily driving could quickly become a chore. Great trail vehicle that would be a pain in Dallas daily traffic), Land Rover Range Rover (Beautiful car, but a little pricey, and the depreciation history is truly frightening. My 1990 RR’s engine melted after 30k miles), and Hummer H2 (at least 2 at every intersection here in the Park Cities area of Dallas. A little too much guido factor for me. Tahoe Z-71 would be a lot more discreet and do roughly the same).
The Car – I ended up trading the Mercedes and the Jeep for an 03 Crystal Silver/Havana Cayenne S. The color is very close to Arctic Silver. I had preferred a grey interior, but now that I have the Havana interior, I am glad I got it as it makes the car seem brighter and a little more spacious. The quality of the trim is very good. I know that there have been some complaints about the dash material, but because it is textured, it will show less wear and dirt than the smooth leather. One might not like the looks of the textured dash, but it is of a higher quality than something you would find in a Mitsubishi Montero or Land Rover Discovery (No flames from Montero or Discovery owners, please. They are both great vehicles that I have owned in the past). I also got the sunroof, 18”turbo wheels, memory seat package, comfort seats, bi-xenon lights, and variable assist steering. It is said that quite a bit of the vehicle was built in conjunction with Volkswagen. Well, while there are lots of interior items that came from VW Inc., most of them look like they came from the Audi parts bin, such as the sunroof dial, and the on board computer – straight out of my old A6. Not a bad place to be pillaging for parts. There’s plenty of room for front and rear passengers, and a lot more room in the cargo area than BMW’s X5.
Real World On-Road Drivability – Coming from an S-Class and a Jeep Wrangler, I would say the Cayenne with the coils springs is much closer to the S-Class than the Wrangler. I would imagine that with the air suspension option, the ride would be pretty close to that of and S-Class. The only time I notice the suspension being too stiff is when I drive over badly broken up streets or really pronounced speed bumps. Otherwise the ride is fine. The cornering ability is phenomenal for a car this size and the brakes can only be described as “911 like”. Remember, this is a car that has real off-road ability. An FX45 might corner flatter and faster, but once the pavement runs out, it’s useless. The Cayenne is very quiet and stable at speed. I took it on a 300+ mile trip and got 18 mpg on the highway (speeds between 65-110 mph) and 16.5 mpg for the entire trip, including about 50 miles of city driving. After 1000 miles, the computer has me averaging 14.8 mpg. The stereo is an audiophile’s dream, but comes at the price of a spare tire, which I consider an off-roader’s necessity.
Road Presence and Perceived Slow Sales – I want to start off by saying that I think this is definitely a car that grows on you. When I first saw it, I thought it looked quite a bit better in real life than in the pictures. But after spending 3 weeks with it, I think it is as distinctive as a 911 in the sports car world. It really is a beautiful car. With the Crystal Silver, the B & C pillars blend in nicely with the car. The 18” turbo wheels are also very nice. I have gotten lots of compliments and have seen people driving around the block just to take another look at it. The reaction has been almost all positive. Living in the Park Cities area of Dallas, there are seldom times when something new comes out and not everyone already has it (like I said earlier, there’s probably 2 Hummer H2’s on every corner, and 911’s and Ferrari 360’s are pretty common). However, after 3 weeks, I have yet to see another Cayenne. Part of the reason is that dealers only received about 10 – 12 2003 vehicles. The rest are 2004’s and they don’t hit dealers until this week. Most people that talked to me about the car were either surprised that the car was already out, or did not even realize that Porsche made an SUV. However, a lot of them are planning on getting one after seeing it. Therefore, I think the reason that the sales were slow was that Porsche knew it had some 2003’s that it needed to get rid of, and once they are gone, I think the first few months of 2004’s are already pre-sold. As more people become aware of the car, sales should steadily improve. Only us enthusiasts knew about March 15, and yes, some of us need to have the newest toys first (I’m guilty), but the majority of the population are not that fanatical. They just want a good vehicle that does everything well, and I think the Cayenne more than fits the bill and will prove its worth over time.
The Problems – They are a few gripes that I have with the car. Not all of them are the car’s fault:
- First and foremost is that horrible brake squeal at low speeds. I called my buddy the service advisor, and he told me that the reason the brakes were squealing was because I was not driving the car hard enough. WOW. Because the brakes are so large, they need to get good and heated up to get rid of the glazing. Apparently just driving around town is not enough. He recommended that I get on the highway and do a couple of 70 mph to 30 mph 2/3 brake pressure runs to get the brakes warmed up. It has helped some, but they still squeak.
- Rattle from rear cargo cover. The rear cargo cover rattles when going over bumps. I think it’s the net part that goes up, but the only way to find out for sure is to take it out of the car and see if it still rattles
- Bi-Xenon lights have condensation in the lens cover after use on cold evenings. Not a big deal. Dealer said to keep an eye on it now that the weather’s warmer.
- On cold starts (only a couple of times), the car would initially start out in D1 (1st gear). I was under the impression that the only way the car starts in 1st gear is if I manually put it there (M1). It would rev up to about 3000 rpm before switching to D2. Only happens the first time the car is driven off. Once it reaches D2, it does not go back to D1. Like I said, this has only happened a couple of times, and seems like nothing more than a software glitch.
- Off-Road Tire pricing outrageous – Since I do off-road some, I wanted to get a spare set of tires and wheels to change out to when I go to the ranch. I checked with Porsche, and they have an approved set they recommend for off-roading – Pirelli Scorpion 255-55-18. However, for the 4 tire and wheel set, they are asking $3,370. While that’s not a lot of money for Porsche 20” wheels, that’s crazy for an offroad setup. I can get a used mid 80’s Jeep wrangler with 31” BFG A/T and keep it at the ranch full time for under $3,000. Spare tire and carries was not much cheaper.
I’ve rambled long enough. Basically, it is a great vehicle and I think given time, it will carry the torch and represent the Porsche name well. It is not here to replace my 911, but to complement it. Just think, to have a family and still be able to say on weekends “why don’t we all take the Porsche”. Enough said.
Karl
Rationale behind the purchase of the Cayenne (or “Why would I or anyone need or want to buy a Cayenne) – I have always owned German and Italian cars. I had owned, just prior to the Cayenne purchase, a 95 993 Carrera, 90 Mercedes 420 SEL, 02 Jeep Wrangler, and my wife’s 03 Honda Pilot (somewhere there’s an 86 Alfa Spyder in storage but that’s a whole other thread). I had purchased the Jeep because we have a 16,000 acre ranch in west Texas that we like to spend some of our weekends, especially during hunting season, and the Jeep was to be my off-roader. However, after 1 year with the Jeep, I realized that there just wasn’t enough room for all my gear and the softtop did not provide the security I needed when carrying thousands of dollars worth of gear. The S-Class was my daily driver, but I had always wished that I could drive the Porsche on a daily basis. Having a 7 year old, it just wasn’t possible to drive the Porsche daily as I never knew if I might have to pick him up from school at the last minute. When the Cayenne came out, I realized that it could take the place of both the S-Class and the Jeep. Nothing can replace a 911, so now it lives in the garage next to the wife’s Pilot and the new Cayenne. For anyone who wants a car that can take them hunting or offroading through some hardcore trails during the day and have enough cache to take them to nice social functions at night, has enough room for the family and its gear but drives and handles like a sports car instead of a big land barge, then the Cayenne is the perfect vehicle for you.
Other cars I considered include the Cayenne Turbo (Tons of power, but I’ve got the new Aston Martin AM-V8 on order and 2 super fast cars per family is plenty. Almost too good, but not $30k better than Cayenne S), G-Class Mercedes (I’ve wanted one since the mid 80’s, but after finally driving one, it feels like there is no power steering and daily driving could quickly become a chore. Great trail vehicle that would be a pain in Dallas daily traffic), Land Rover Range Rover (Beautiful car, but a little pricey, and the depreciation history is truly frightening. My 1990 RR’s engine melted after 30k miles), and Hummer H2 (at least 2 at every intersection here in the Park Cities area of Dallas. A little too much guido factor for me. Tahoe Z-71 would be a lot more discreet and do roughly the same).
The Car – I ended up trading the Mercedes and the Jeep for an 03 Crystal Silver/Havana Cayenne S. The color is very close to Arctic Silver. I had preferred a grey interior, but now that I have the Havana interior, I am glad I got it as it makes the car seem brighter and a little more spacious. The quality of the trim is very good. I know that there have been some complaints about the dash material, but because it is textured, it will show less wear and dirt than the smooth leather. One might not like the looks of the textured dash, but it is of a higher quality than something you would find in a Mitsubishi Montero or Land Rover Discovery (No flames from Montero or Discovery owners, please. They are both great vehicles that I have owned in the past). I also got the sunroof, 18”turbo wheels, memory seat package, comfort seats, bi-xenon lights, and variable assist steering. It is said that quite a bit of the vehicle was built in conjunction with Volkswagen. Well, while there are lots of interior items that came from VW Inc., most of them look like they came from the Audi parts bin, such as the sunroof dial, and the on board computer – straight out of my old A6. Not a bad place to be pillaging for parts. There’s plenty of room for front and rear passengers, and a lot more room in the cargo area than BMW’s X5.
Real World On-Road Drivability – Coming from an S-Class and a Jeep Wrangler, I would say the Cayenne with the coils springs is much closer to the S-Class than the Wrangler. I would imagine that with the air suspension option, the ride would be pretty close to that of and S-Class. The only time I notice the suspension being too stiff is when I drive over badly broken up streets or really pronounced speed bumps. Otherwise the ride is fine. The cornering ability is phenomenal for a car this size and the brakes can only be described as “911 like”. Remember, this is a car that has real off-road ability. An FX45 might corner flatter and faster, but once the pavement runs out, it’s useless. The Cayenne is very quiet and stable at speed. I took it on a 300+ mile trip and got 18 mpg on the highway (speeds between 65-110 mph) and 16.5 mpg for the entire trip, including about 50 miles of city driving. After 1000 miles, the computer has me averaging 14.8 mpg. The stereo is an audiophile’s dream, but comes at the price of a spare tire, which I consider an off-roader’s necessity.
Road Presence and Perceived Slow Sales – I want to start off by saying that I think this is definitely a car that grows on you. When I first saw it, I thought it looked quite a bit better in real life than in the pictures. But after spending 3 weeks with it, I think it is as distinctive as a 911 in the sports car world. It really is a beautiful car. With the Crystal Silver, the B & C pillars blend in nicely with the car. The 18” turbo wheels are also very nice. I have gotten lots of compliments and have seen people driving around the block just to take another look at it. The reaction has been almost all positive. Living in the Park Cities area of Dallas, there are seldom times when something new comes out and not everyone already has it (like I said earlier, there’s probably 2 Hummer H2’s on every corner, and 911’s and Ferrari 360’s are pretty common). However, after 3 weeks, I have yet to see another Cayenne. Part of the reason is that dealers only received about 10 – 12 2003 vehicles. The rest are 2004’s and they don’t hit dealers until this week. Most people that talked to me about the car were either surprised that the car was already out, or did not even realize that Porsche made an SUV. However, a lot of them are planning on getting one after seeing it. Therefore, I think the reason that the sales were slow was that Porsche knew it had some 2003’s that it needed to get rid of, and once they are gone, I think the first few months of 2004’s are already pre-sold. As more people become aware of the car, sales should steadily improve. Only us enthusiasts knew about March 15, and yes, some of us need to have the newest toys first (I’m guilty), but the majority of the population are not that fanatical. They just want a good vehicle that does everything well, and I think the Cayenne more than fits the bill and will prove its worth over time.
The Problems – They are a few gripes that I have with the car. Not all of them are the car’s fault:
- First and foremost is that horrible brake squeal at low speeds. I called my buddy the service advisor, and he told me that the reason the brakes were squealing was because I was not driving the car hard enough. WOW. Because the brakes are so large, they need to get good and heated up to get rid of the glazing. Apparently just driving around town is not enough. He recommended that I get on the highway and do a couple of 70 mph to 30 mph 2/3 brake pressure runs to get the brakes warmed up. It has helped some, but they still squeak.
- Rattle from rear cargo cover. The rear cargo cover rattles when going over bumps. I think it’s the net part that goes up, but the only way to find out for sure is to take it out of the car and see if it still rattles
- Bi-Xenon lights have condensation in the lens cover after use on cold evenings. Not a big deal. Dealer said to keep an eye on it now that the weather’s warmer.
- On cold starts (only a couple of times), the car would initially start out in D1 (1st gear). I was under the impression that the only way the car starts in 1st gear is if I manually put it there (M1). It would rev up to about 3000 rpm before switching to D2. Only happens the first time the car is driven off. Once it reaches D2, it does not go back to D1. Like I said, this has only happened a couple of times, and seems like nothing more than a software glitch.
- Off-Road Tire pricing outrageous – Since I do off-road some, I wanted to get a spare set of tires and wheels to change out to when I go to the ranch. I checked with Porsche, and they have an approved set they recommend for off-roading – Pirelli Scorpion 255-55-18. However, for the 4 tire and wheel set, they are asking $3,370. While that’s not a lot of money for Porsche 20” wheels, that’s crazy for an offroad setup. I can get a used mid 80’s Jeep wrangler with 31” BFG A/T and keep it at the ranch full time for under $3,000. Spare tire and carries was not much cheaper.
I’ve rambled long enough. Basically, it is a great vehicle and I think given time, it will carry the torch and represent the Porsche name well. It is not here to replace my 911, but to complement it. Just think, to have a family and still be able to say on weekends “why don’t we all take the Porsche”. Enough said.
Karl
04-07-2003, 11:46 PM
#2
Tremendous post -- thanks.
Any obvious design problems aside from the rattle?
Do you have trouble getting the rear seats folded and the head-rests in place?
Anything break?
Any leaks?
Fuel consumption?
As for wheel and tyre packages are pretty pricey from Porsche (and that's my best attempt at an alliteration for now...sorry) try wheelenhancement.com sooner or later tire.com and tireandrack.com will have Cayenne stuff.
As you pointed out, expect to pay for 20" rubber and if you want off-road performance, stick with 18's. The 20's are for road and show. Maybe get some nice 20's for the road and take the 18" Cayenne Turbo wheels with 285/
The Scorpian is a crap tyre (in my humble) especially on heavier vehicles -- I killed a set in 10K miles, the shoulders rubbed off due to high speed cornering (I live on a hilly, twisty road) and the things made a lot of fuss and noise.
Try the Nitto NT404 for road with snow or rain and some modest off-road. Easily the best tyre I've ever used (the Silica tread compound is the key to excellent cold and wet road performance, along with ample factory siping.) For more serious off-road, snow, mud, sand try the Nitto Terra Grappler. I just put these on, well, about 10K miles now, but they're holding up wheel. My SUV (a Chevy Tahoe) weighs about the same as the Cayenne at 5000lbs -ish) and I have a supercharger delivering about 430hp with suspension and wheels, so it handles wheel enough for a piece of junk.
The Terra Grappler is great on road and handles the work of a heavy car at high speed and high cornering loads. The NT404 was better on road but couldn't do much off-road if you really want to go in soft, deep sand or snow or mud or climb and descend steep (say 30 degree) whereas the Terra Grappler is confident on the road, with maybe a loss of 5mph taking a posted 30mph corner at 55 instead of the NT404 which would hold the car in a neutral attitude at just over 60. The Terra Grappler also looks great and doesn't upset the ABS -- if you go to mud-terrain or even some all-terrain tyres, expect to "defeat" ABS under extreme conditions. Also expect the added unsprung weight to really effect noise, vibration and harshness. Both tyres have reinforced sidewalls and put up with running at 12psi at 40mph on sand without visible problems. The Terra Grappler "bites" much better (in a good sense...) but the on-road performance, especially at high speeds at high altitude on cold roads and heavy rain was impressive. I expect to have 20" wheels with NT404's and 18's with T-G's. The Terra Grappler 285/65R18's on the Tahoe now are still square on the shoulder with no more than 30% wear in tread depth after 10K (maybe a little more) miles. And they're not noisy.
Anyhoot, where was I? Right. Thanks for the post about the new toy ...
Any obvious design problems aside from the rattle?
Do you have trouble getting the rear seats folded and the head-rests in place?
Anything break?
Any leaks?
Fuel consumption?
As for wheel and tyre packages are pretty pricey from Porsche (and that's my best attempt at an alliteration for now...sorry) try wheelenhancement.com sooner or later tire.com and tireandrack.com will have Cayenne stuff.
As you pointed out, expect to pay for 20" rubber and if you want off-road performance, stick with 18's. The 20's are for road and show. Maybe get some nice 20's for the road and take the 18" Cayenne Turbo wheels with 285/
The Scorpian is a crap tyre (in my humble) especially on heavier vehicles -- I killed a set in 10K miles, the shoulders rubbed off due to high speed cornering (I live on a hilly, twisty road) and the things made a lot of fuss and noise.
Try the Nitto NT404 for road with snow or rain and some modest off-road. Easily the best tyre I've ever used (the Silica tread compound is the key to excellent cold and wet road performance, along with ample factory siping.) For more serious off-road, snow, mud, sand try the Nitto Terra Grappler. I just put these on, well, about 10K miles now, but they're holding up wheel. My SUV (a Chevy Tahoe) weighs about the same as the Cayenne at 5000lbs -ish) and I have a supercharger delivering about 430hp with suspension and wheels, so it handles wheel enough for a piece of junk.
The Terra Grappler is great on road and handles the work of a heavy car at high speed and high cornering loads. The NT404 was better on road but couldn't do much off-road if you really want to go in soft, deep sand or snow or mud or climb and descend steep (say 30 degree) whereas the Terra Grappler is confident on the road, with maybe a loss of 5mph taking a posted 30mph corner at 55 instead of the NT404 which would hold the car in a neutral attitude at just over 60. The Terra Grappler also looks great and doesn't upset the ABS -- if you go to mud-terrain or even some all-terrain tyres, expect to "defeat" ABS under extreme conditions. Also expect the added unsprung weight to really effect noise, vibration and harshness. Both tyres have reinforced sidewalls and put up with running at 12psi at 40mph on sand without visible problems. The Terra Grappler "bites" much better (in a good sense...) but the on-road performance, especially at high speeds at high altitude on cold roads and heavy rain was impressive. I expect to have 20" wheels with NT404's and 18's with T-G's. The Terra Grappler 285/65R18's on the Tahoe now are still square on the shoulder with no more than 30% wear in tread depth after 10K (maybe a little more) miles. And they're not noisy.
Anyhoot, where was I? Right. Thanks for the post about the new toy ...
04-08-2003, 03:46 PM
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Thanks Carrera GT,
I looked up the Terra Grapplers, but the closest size they have is the 285/60R18's. Will those fit on the Cayenne wheel? Also, if the tire is bigger than the factory specifications, doesn't that interfere with the accuracy of your speedometer and odometer? What about the width - is it too wide for the standard rim?
They look like great tires and I'm definitely going to look at them. just need to make sure I can get wheels they will fit on.
Can any standard Porsche 18" wheel fit the Cayenne? I know it's the standard 5 bolt pattern, but is there an offset required?
Unfortunately, this thing is so new that there just is not a lot of stuff on the aftermarket for it yet.
I looked up the Terra Grapplers, but the closest size they have is the 285/60R18's. Will those fit on the Cayenne wheel? Also, if the tire is bigger than the factory specifications, doesn't that interfere with the accuracy of your speedometer and odometer? What about the width - is it too wide for the standard rim?
They look like great tires and I'm definitely going to look at them. just need to make sure I can get wheels they will fit on.
Can any standard Porsche 18" wheel fit the Cayenne? I know it's the standard 5 bolt pattern, but is there an offset required?
Unfortunately, this thing is so new that there just is not a lot of stuff on the aftermarket for it yet.
04-08-2003, 04:13 PM
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Thank you for the comprehensive post.
I am scheduled to pick up my Cayenne S in ~3-4 weeks (2004 - 19in wheel/memory/moonroof/dark wood steering/xenons with Black exterior and interior). Would've been happy with an '03 (could have saved a couple of dollars), but could not find one equipped/color combo the way I wanted. Besides, I got a fair deal on the '04.
Anyway, much of what you posted resonated with some of the cursory level concerns that I had (i.e. would I really miss/need the Air Suspension, real world gas mileage, appeal of the "natural embossed" finished dash, etc.). It is a reassuring to hear that these items, whereas not perfect, seem to be more than satisfactory or non inhibitors to overall enjoyment of the vehicle.
I really related to your comment on Dallas Park Cities/Preston Hollow area and the proliferation of the "next big thing". A similar phenomenon is seen in west Plano as well. It will be interesting to see how many Cayennes begin to pop up once the 04's dealer inventory begins to stack up.
For me, I think that this vehicle more than meets my needs. There really isn't any other vehicle that I could compare it to other than maybe the BMW X5 (and there are at least 3 of those at every intersection).
I am being compelled to move up to the SUV world as a result of now having two small children (and their associated "stuff") to carry around. Whereas asthetically pleasing, my current Jaguar ends up feeling cramped and a bit unwieldy in terms of cargo and passenger space when my spouse has to ride in the rear to tend to the newborn.
Assuming that they figure out the spare tire issue (which I believe they will), I look forward to long and thorough enjoyment of this vehicle.
Again, thanks for the post.
I am scheduled to pick up my Cayenne S in ~3-4 weeks (2004 - 19in wheel/memory/moonroof/dark wood steering/xenons with Black exterior and interior). Would've been happy with an '03 (could have saved a couple of dollars), but could not find one equipped/color combo the way I wanted. Besides, I got a fair deal on the '04.
Anyway, much of what you posted resonated with some of the cursory level concerns that I had (i.e. would I really miss/need the Air Suspension, real world gas mileage, appeal of the "natural embossed" finished dash, etc.). It is a reassuring to hear that these items, whereas not perfect, seem to be more than satisfactory or non inhibitors to overall enjoyment of the vehicle.
I really related to your comment on Dallas Park Cities/Preston Hollow area and the proliferation of the "next big thing". A similar phenomenon is seen in west Plano as well. It will be interesting to see how many Cayennes begin to pop up once the 04's dealer inventory begins to stack up.
For me, I think that this vehicle more than meets my needs. There really isn't any other vehicle that I could compare it to other than maybe the BMW X5 (and there are at least 3 of those at every intersection).
I am being compelled to move up to the SUV world as a result of now having two small children (and their associated "stuff") to carry around. Whereas asthetically pleasing, my current Jaguar ends up feeling cramped and a bit unwieldy in terms of cargo and passenger space when my spouse has to ride in the rear to tend to the newborn.
Assuming that they figure out the spare tire issue (which I believe they will), I look forward to long and thorough enjoyment of this vehicle.
Again, thanks for the post.
04-09-2003, 02:04 AM
#6
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by EuroCarNut:
I looked up the Terra Grapplers, but the closest size they have is the 285/60R18's. Will those fit on the Cayenne wheel?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't know the width of the Cayenne wheel off hand, but I have the 285's on 8.5inch rims. Check the spec off the Nitto site, it indicates the correct max and min rim widths for each tyres size. Then check your wheel for it's width.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Also, if the tire is bigger than the factory specifications, doesn't that interfere with the accuracy of your speedometer and odometer? What about the width - is it too wide for the standard rim?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Right. If the rolling radius of the new tyre is significantly different (I think Nitto expresses this in revolutions per mile, it will be a number like 670, I think) then your speedo and odometer will be affected. Again, this has to be checked, but I the discrepancy between tyres of the same fitment (size, if you will) and application (off-road, mud, all-terrrain, road) will be minimal. Speedos are not accurate and the change in the reading from the change in tyre, is not, in my humble, a big deal.
Local Porsche guys that get really different road wheel and tyre combinations go to a local instrument guy in Palo Alto -- he can calibrate the speedo.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Can any standard Porsche 18" wheel fit the Cayenne? I know it's the standard 5 bolt pattern, but is there an offset required?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No way! There's more to it than the number of lugs and the distance between the lugs. There's more to it than offset. Talk with Wheel Enhancement or TechArt or Gemballa. They're all 100% up on Porsche wheel fitment. I checked with them the week after the launch (after March 15th) and nobody had solid numbers from the factory at that time. I'm guessing they'll have answers now.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Unfortunately, this thing is so new that there just is not a lot of stuff on the aftermarket for it yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">True, but, as with the RR '03, that will change in a matter of weeks once the makers and sales people know the correct fitment.
If I was to question the T-G, it would be that it's a square shouldered tyre that might not clear the plastic fender inside the wheel well. In other words, with the steering turned fully to lock, left or right, as the suspension moves up and down, the inner shoulder of the tyre just might rub or scrap on the plastic. This is just a "maybe" it really shouldn't happen, but it's worth checking the clearance as soon as the wheel and tyre is on the first time.
By the way, don't use spacers on off-road vehicles -- it's not safe.
Cheers,
I looked up the Terra Grapplers, but the closest size they have is the 285/60R18's. Will those fit on the Cayenne wheel?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I don't know the width of the Cayenne wheel off hand, but I have the 285's on 8.5inch rims. Check the spec off the Nitto site, it indicates the correct max and min rim widths for each tyres size. Then check your wheel for it's width.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Also, if the tire is bigger than the factory specifications, doesn't that interfere with the accuracy of your speedometer and odometer? What about the width - is it too wide for the standard rim?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Right. If the rolling radius of the new tyre is significantly different (I think Nitto expresses this in revolutions per mile, it will be a number like 670, I think) then your speedo and odometer will be affected. Again, this has to be checked, but I the discrepancy between tyres of the same fitment (size, if you will) and application (off-road, mud, all-terrrain, road) will be minimal. Speedos are not accurate and the change in the reading from the change in tyre, is not, in my humble, a big deal.
Local Porsche guys that get really different road wheel and tyre combinations go to a local instrument guy in Palo Alto -- he can calibrate the speedo.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Can any standard Porsche 18" wheel fit the Cayenne? I know it's the standard 5 bolt pattern, but is there an offset required?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">No way! There's more to it than the number of lugs and the distance between the lugs. There's more to it than offset. Talk with Wheel Enhancement or TechArt or Gemballa. They're all 100% up on Porsche wheel fitment. I checked with them the week after the launch (after March 15th) and nobody had solid numbers from the factory at that time. I'm guessing they'll have answers now.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Unfortunately, this thing is so new that there just is not a lot of stuff on the aftermarket for it yet.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">True, but, as with the RR '03, that will change in a matter of weeks once the makers and sales people know the correct fitment.
If I was to question the T-G, it would be that it's a square shouldered tyre that might not clear the plastic fender inside the wheel well. In other words, with the steering turned fully to lock, left or right, as the suspension moves up and down, the inner shoulder of the tyre just might rub or scrap on the plastic. This is just a "maybe" it really shouldn't happen, but it's worth checking the clearance as soon as the wheel and tyre is on the first time.
By the way, don't use spacers on off-road vehicles -- it's not safe.
Cheers,
04-09-2003, 05:13 AM
#7
Okeydoke, I checked <a href="http://www.nittotire.com" target="_blank">www.nittotire.com</a> -- the T-G 285/60R-18 fits eight inch, nominal eight and a half inch up to ten inch (?!) rims.
Porsche has chosen eight inch wheels for the S and Turbo wheels. Groan. This is really pretty weak, almost a joke these days because it limits the tyre selection, at at least the Nittos fit nicely.
If you get them and hate them, just ship them to me and I'll pay you $150/tyre...
I also checked the NT404. Its 285/50R-18 also fits an 18" rim and turns 715 revs per mile. That might be a bit too small in terms of rolling radius. The 305/55R-18 NT404 turns a devilish 666 rpm and that tyre stands just about the same, maybe a little smaller than the 285 T-G which fits perfectly on my current model Tahoe (hardly a scientific appraisal, I know, I'm just trying to convey some general idea, not make a hard and fast recommendation here...)
Anyway, I had the 305/55R18 NT404, which sat on a contact patch about the same width and length as the 285/60R-18 T-G and had about the same apparent rolling radius. Certainly I couldn't see any difference in gearing or subjective speedo performance.
By the way, I've run dozens if not a few hundred quarter mile tests with GPS and a G-Tech Pro Competition accelerometer (sp?) and the difference between the GPS and the speedo is only in the tenths of mph, so I don't think this will translate into any of the speeding ticket or depreciation from artificially high mileage that one might be concerned about with an odo/speedo problem.
At the end of the day, this is a decision for you between a moderate duty off-road tyre like the NT404 and a medium to heavy duty off-road tyre like the Terra Grappler.
Personally, if this wheel set will become your second set for off-road or driving to the ski fields or taking the Cayenne onto a beach, then definitely go for the T-G.
If this wheel set will the all-purpose, every day set that will put down miles on sealed or dirt roads, then get the NT404, no question. And I'd go for the largest diameter rim possible, 20, 22 or 23, no problem. This might sound contradictory, given my preference for 18's off-road, but for on-road handling and braking, I'd prefer to buy the light rim I can get, say arond 20 inches and then fit the 404's. Sure, if you go up to a 22 or 24 (and ther are some 26's available in the last year...) the wheel itself weighs a ton and the rubber is insanely heavy, so anything beyond a 20 inch is tending to the "show" end of the spectrum, but I would definitely go at least as far as 20" inch today to get the precise handling of a lower sidewall.
Ironically, you just would not get me onto a brand like Nitto for my other cars, but for the "truck" I became willing to step outside the usual brand range of Pirelli Scorpian, BFG All Terrain et al because, in words of one syllable, those things are crap tyres. From experience with other 4WD/SUVs I knew I wasn't going to put up with the roar and grind and horrible on-road handling of aggressive all-terrain or mud-terrain tyres, so I needed something with excellent wet road handling (you'll soon realise that a 5000lb car wants to stay inside the envelope ... if you let that much high-centre mass out of the box, there's no way to get it back) that wouldn't create painful road noise and wouldn't wear out in 10K miles.
I've tried everything.
I even started out on a set of 20" inch wheels and the dealer took them back in exchange for 18" wheels after a month. The harsh ride and accentuated plow-on understeer was insufferable. This was a combinatio of already stiff suspension modifications plus primitive tyre technology not designed for 5000lb cars and linear 650lb springs on an SUV.
So the lesson learned there is simple, if you go to 20 inches on an SUV be prepared for the extra unsprung weight to cause the kind of bump-thump that would normally see you talking with a suspension shop about your broken dampers...
Whatever tyre you choose, look for Silica and factory siping -- these two characteristics seem to create exceptional wet and cold road traction.
This is a subtle point, but if you look at the standard issue rubber for Range Rover, its always heavily siped and designated as an uncommon Michelin tyre model (not unlike the Porsche-specific variants of the erstwhile S02) and I've seen several examples of RR owners complaining that their car runs rough and lacks off-road prowess ever since fitting a new set of supposedly better off-road tyres.
Cheers,
Adam
Porsche has chosen eight inch wheels for the S and Turbo wheels. Groan. This is really pretty weak, almost a joke these days because it limits the tyre selection, at at least the Nittos fit nicely.
If you get them and hate them, just ship them to me and I'll pay you $150/tyre...
I also checked the NT404. Its 285/50R-18 also fits an 18" rim and turns 715 revs per mile. That might be a bit too small in terms of rolling radius. The 305/55R-18 NT404 turns a devilish 666 rpm and that tyre stands just about the same, maybe a little smaller than the 285 T-G which fits perfectly on my current model Tahoe (hardly a scientific appraisal, I know, I'm just trying to convey some general idea, not make a hard and fast recommendation here...)
Anyway, I had the 305/55R18 NT404, which sat on a contact patch about the same width and length as the 285/60R-18 T-G and had about the same apparent rolling radius. Certainly I couldn't see any difference in gearing or subjective speedo performance.
By the way, I've run dozens if not a few hundred quarter mile tests with GPS and a G-Tech Pro Competition accelerometer (sp?) and the difference between the GPS and the speedo is only in the tenths of mph, so I don't think this will translate into any of the speeding ticket or depreciation from artificially high mileage that one might be concerned about with an odo/speedo problem.
At the end of the day, this is a decision for you between a moderate duty off-road tyre like the NT404 and a medium to heavy duty off-road tyre like the Terra Grappler.
Personally, if this wheel set will become your second set for off-road or driving to the ski fields or taking the Cayenne onto a beach, then definitely go for the T-G.
If this wheel set will the all-purpose, every day set that will put down miles on sealed or dirt roads, then get the NT404, no question. And I'd go for the largest diameter rim possible, 20, 22 or 23, no problem. This might sound contradictory, given my preference for 18's off-road, but for on-road handling and braking, I'd prefer to buy the light rim I can get, say arond 20 inches and then fit the 404's. Sure, if you go up to a 22 or 24 (and ther are some 26's available in the last year...) the wheel itself weighs a ton and the rubber is insanely heavy, so anything beyond a 20 inch is tending to the "show" end of the spectrum, but I would definitely go at least as far as 20" inch today to get the precise handling of a lower sidewall.
Ironically, you just would not get me onto a brand like Nitto for my other cars, but for the "truck" I became willing to step outside the usual brand range of Pirelli Scorpian, BFG All Terrain et al because, in words of one syllable, those things are crap tyres. From experience with other 4WD/SUVs I knew I wasn't going to put up with the roar and grind and horrible on-road handling of aggressive all-terrain or mud-terrain tyres, so I needed something with excellent wet road handling (you'll soon realise that a 5000lb car wants to stay inside the envelope ... if you let that much high-centre mass out of the box, there's no way to get it back) that wouldn't create painful road noise and wouldn't wear out in 10K miles.
I've tried everything.
I even started out on a set of 20" inch wheels and the dealer took them back in exchange for 18" wheels after a month. The harsh ride and accentuated plow-on understeer was insufferable. This was a combinatio of already stiff suspension modifications plus primitive tyre technology not designed for 5000lb cars and linear 650lb springs on an SUV.
So the lesson learned there is simple, if you go to 20 inches on an SUV be prepared for the extra unsprung weight to cause the kind of bump-thump that would normally see you talking with a suspension shop about your broken dampers...
Whatever tyre you choose, look for Silica and factory siping -- these two characteristics seem to create exceptional wet and cold road traction.
This is a subtle point, but if you look at the standard issue rubber for Range Rover, its always heavily siped and designated as an uncommon Michelin tyre model (not unlike the Porsche-specific variants of the erstwhile S02) and I've seen several examples of RR owners complaining that their car runs rough and lacks off-road prowess ever since fitting a new set of supposedly better off-road tyres.
Cheers,
Adam
Trending Topics
04-09-2003, 09:07 PM
#8
I can't vouch for the accuracy of this tool, but it might work:
<a href="http://miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html" target="_blank">http://miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html</a>
<a href="http://miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html" target="_blank">http://miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html</a>
