RobertG

im 6'9" and I had a hell of a time fitting in the Cayenne. Front and rear. But for some reason the front passenger seat had a real lack of leg room. My knees bashed right up against the dash. Also, on the drivers seat. My shoulder would hit the B piller getting in and withthe seat all the way down My head still hit the roof. I guess 3" makes a big difference. The interior space reminded me ofa Jeep Cherrokee in terms of me fitting inside of it. Also the door and center console handles hit my knees in a bad place. Can those handles be removed? I guess I had too many knee surgeries

Anir

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Difference Engine:
<strong>I don't mind the Range Rover. It's roomy, it's comfortable, it looks great, it's drivers nicely. But, it's handling is pathetic. My lifted Jeep XJ that's running 32 inch tires has less body roll in corners. Maybe the active suspension thing they have improves things, but I've never experienced that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">DE,

Nicely worded and well thought out reponse, and more candid and honest than our local Kentucky salesman who believes that journalists have created the "sold out" story on their own.

It sounds like you've not yet driven the 2003 Range Rover. It's a totally new design from the 2002 (and prior) models, with a BMW engine, BMW transmission, etc, etc. It is only available with an active air suspension - one that is so well done that it makes the one in my previous 2000 Mercedes S500 look antique by comparison. In slow corners, there is a fair amount of lean. On the highway, it is completely stable and hugs long, sweeping corners at 90 mph without any problem. It's not like I could drive an SUV any faster than that on our public roads, anyway (which is one of the reasons I don't "get" the Cayenne). Our example has been flawless in the first 6,000 miles.

The Cayenne does indeed have one negative feature, which you did not mention but is important to a lot of current Porsche owners. It is truly ugly - easily as ugly as the FX45. I know this issue has been beaten to death, but there's no way around it. Hopefully, Porsche will come through with the rumored facelift in 2004.

Some folks argue that looks simply aren't that important, but I disagree, particularly when it comes to high-end vehicles. Beautiful styling is at least as responsible for Ferrari's success as is their performance. A car's beautiful and/or harmonious lines are typically the first thing that draw you to a car, and definitely one of the main things that cause you to look back over your shoulder every day after parking. Styling matters, and Porsche's designers got it wrong on this one. I think they know it, too, based on their plans to update it so quickly.

KBlair

George, you may change you mind about the styling when you see one in person. I wasn't too crazxy about it from the pictures, but last month I saw 4 in person in Brimingham, AL. didn't get an upclose look but they crossed in front of me at an intersection on Hwy 280 just before I-459. 2 black and 2 blue. I like the styling much better now that I've seen it in person.

ked

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Anir:
<strong>It is truly ugly.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">C'mon Anir, I have read your posts, share your appreciation for Italianesque shapes & respect your analytical pov. I assume you recognize the distinction between the tastes of a marketplace and one's own - it is risky to confuse the two. One can know one's own tastes, only time will reveal those of the marketplace. Ciao!

dawktah

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RobertG:
<strong>im 6'9" and I had a hell of a time fitting in the Cayenne. Front and rear. But for some reason the front passenger seat had a real lack of leg room. My knees bashed right up against the dash. Also, on the drivers seat. My shoulder would hit the B piller getting in and withthe seat all the way down My head still hit the roof. I guess 3" makes a big difference. The interior space reminded me ofa Jeep Cherrokee in terms of me fitting inside of it. Also the door and center console handles hit my knees in a bad place. Can those handles be removed? I guess I had too many knee surgeries</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Are you sure the seat was all the way back and all the way down? I saw the picture you posted and the seat was way forward. However, at 6'9" what vehicle are you able to fit comfortably that qualifies as "sport." At 6'0" its a little tight in Boxster, better in 996.

Anir

Kevin,

You're definitely right, but judging from all the negative press (and the comments of my friends and family), I'm not alone in my design interpretation.

I actually hope that it sells like hotcakes, because I want Porsche to do well and design a great 997 and other future sports cars.

Difference Engine

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Anir:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Difference Engine:
<strong>I don't mind the Range Rover. It's roomy, it's comfortable, it looks great, it's drivers nicely. But, it's handling is pathetic. My lifted Jeep XJ that's running 32 inch tires has less body roll in corners. Maybe the active suspension thing they have improves things, but I've never experienced that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">DE,

Nicely worded and well thought out reponse, and more candid and honest than our local Kentucky salesman who believes that journalists have created the "sold out" story on their own.

It sounds like you've not yet driven the 2003 Range Rover. It's a totally new design from the 2002 (and prior) models, with a BMW engine, BMW transmission, etc, etc. It is only available with an active air suspension - one that is so well done that it makes the one in my previous 2000 Mercedes S500 look antique by comparison. In slow corners, there is a fair amount of lean. On the highway, it is completely stable and hugs long, sweeping corners at 90 mph without any problem. It's not like I could drive an SUV any faster than that on our public roads, anyway (which is one of the reasons I don't "get" the Cayenne). Our example has been flawless in the first 6,000 miles.

The Cayenne does indeed have one negative feature, which you did not mention but is important to a lot of current Porsche owners. It is truly ugly - easily as ugly as the FX45. I know this issue has been beaten to death, but there's no way around it. Hopefully, Porsche will come through with the rumored facelift in 2004.

Some folks argue that looks simply aren't that important, but I disagree, particularly when it comes to high-end vehicles. Beautiful styling is at least as responsible for Ferrari's success as is their performance. A car's beautiful and/or harmonious lines are typically the first thing that draw you to a car, and definitely one of the main things that cause you to look back over your shoulder every day after parking. Styling matters, and Porsche's designers got it wrong on this one. I think they know it, too, based on their plans to update it so quickly.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks, I try to word things well because I don't think that slamming and badmouthing the competition will get me anywhere. Plus, I'll leave the name calling and insults for others.

Unfortunately, I have driven the 03 Range Rovers. At training in Birmingham they had there for comparison, and my next door neighbor recently bought one and let me take it out. It is vastly improved over the model it replaces. The BMW drivetrain is flawless, and it is totally comfortable. I still wasn't happy with the handling. I felt it swayed and rolled in the corners a lot more than it should. Especially if the active suspension is standard. It's still a lot better when compared to the G500 or any of the American Lux-SUVs like the Escalade or Navigator.

Styling is totally personal preference. I like the way the Cayenne looks. I think it looks like a truck, yet retains a lot of the Porsche styling cues. Is there anything I would have done differently? Probably, but I think Porsche did a great job with the styling. They have yet to design a vehicle I've found unattractive, although the interiors of 924s and early 944s is close. To each their own though, everyone's going to have differing opinions on looks. Some will not like it, but many people will. And you're right, looks are definitely important when considering a vehicle. For example, no matter how good it is, I wouldn't consider an FX45 or a Mercedes ML, solely because of it's looks. But, that's why there's choice.

As a side note, I got a phone call this morning, our first Cayennes are due to arrive within the next hour or so. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

John Murray

John from WA

With Mr. Weiderleaking going around telling the press that the Cayenne is all sold out implies, to the normal casual observer, that they are all sold to customers.

He should publicly clarify his comments by explaining his definition of sex isn't a blow job... oops wrong case (Clinton)... I meant explaining his definition of "sold out" as having sold the entire production run to his fully controlled subsidiary, not actual end customers. It shows a lack of integrity on his part... and since his comments do influence stock price, if the Cayenne fails abysmally, guess who is going to sue?

Imagine Sears going to the press and telling them that they have sold there entire annual production run of Whirlpool fridges... then not saying anything about the customer being a wholly owned subsidiary. That would start an SEC investigation in no time.

Adrian

Dear John (the one from Boston)
I have my moderators hat on now. Slipping in commercial posts on the forums is not really in keeping with the Rennlist charter! I wonder if you are prepared to make some fianancial donation to Rennlist if you make a sale to a rennlister picked up from these forums. Maybe even look at some form of sponsorship. In your posts you do not identify your dealership either. This policy will be applied in future to all commercial posts as they come up.
Please think about this. This forum and others are a great place to pick up new customers and I and the rest of moderators feel that a premium should be paid to rennlist.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

John Murray

George from MD

Mr. Murray, just so you know who the heck I am please be advised that I'm a card carrying Rennlist member, longtime (some 15 years now) Porsche owner and fan who's active in the local PCA club (as active as I can be anyway). I instruct at DE's and HPDC's and even attended Porsche's own driving clinic a few years ago. I also happen to own a BMW x5 4.4 (as well as a 528) and would (or should) be the kind of client you'd want to lure into your showroom to see the Cayenne.

So I'm sorry to question your credibility but, to me, you sound exactly like the worst in car sales. A respected automotive journalist and world class magazine finds the x5 4.6's performance is superior to the Cayenne S. You say the opposite- I ask why and you haven't bothered to answered the question- until now.

Without any data or basis in fact- you contend that it will top the x5 in "all ... areas BY A LARGE MARGIN" (your caps). I say BS- and I also say statements like those cause me to question your credibility.

Sorry but until I've had the chance to test them for myself "back to back" I'll take Car magazine's word over yours. You can't say anything bad about the Cayenne, you've described my car's performance as "silly" in comparison thereto and you haven't identified yourself as anything other than a car selling shill for the Cayenne.

I think you're losing more sales than you're making.

John H. in DC Area

I wonder if Porsche has the ability and the will to force the Cayenne allocations onto PCNA and the dealers for next year, and the year after that, and so on ad infinitum? Heck, they could perpetually claim that the Cayenne is sold out for its entire existence. Also, does the first year "sold out" claim apply to model year 2003 Cayennes or one year's worth of Cayennes starting from its introduction at the end of calendar 2002/beginning of 2003 (to include MY 2003 and 2004 Cayennes)?

All of these "virtual" sales accomplishments have me baffled.

Going to see and drive the C tomorrow evening.

RobertG

John, I picked you out being a Porsche Salesman from your posts even before you said so yourself. Your posts do have a commercial aire about them and using your personal email doesnt mean a thing. That can be construed as a way of getting around the sponsorship/AD duties. It is pretty Blatent. Sorry to say that. I like your posts but they do run like a constant Cayenne infomercial.

John Murray