Mark,

Welcome to the board. Nice first post.

I am the guy who sold the 2002 M3 after 8 months of ownership and a blown engine at 8,000 miles. I just finished writing about the overall experience for a new installment of a Running Report in the British magazine, 911 & Porsche World.

Across the board, cars are getting more high-tech and more bloated. It's difficult to find a sports car nowadays that weighs less than 3,000 lbs. Perhaps, the relatively lower weight of the Boxster is one of the main reasons it is so popular, because it fosters a better driving experience.

I like electric windows and leather as much as the next guy, but I hope high-end sports car manufacturers (especially Porsche) will find a way to get the weight of future sports cars like the 997 back under 3,000 lbs. I would gladly trade PSM, etc, etc, for a purer driving experience. They may also need to look at using more aluminum (or maybe other carbon fiber composites), ala Audi and the new Jaguar.

Having said this, I'm still amazed by how much better my 993TT drove than the M3, given the fact that they differed in weight by only 92 lbs.

 

Hello Anir,

The M-3 is so impressive on so many levels. The fit and finish is better than the Boxster (by far in my opinion), everything seemed like it should have been better..but BMW just is clueless on road and clutch 'feel'..Even Porsche has lost the way a bit. I like the feel of your 993 better than a 996.

They could have made the M3 so much better by not trying to make it a Lexus. In the hands of an expert driver, maybe it will outperform the Boxster S but I could never do it and wouldn't even want to try.

I prefer my 964 in many ways regarding 'feel' even to the Boxster S.

Seems most of these new cars would be better suited as 5 speeds..The M-3 stays one gear up from any Porsche I have driven..My Porsche's don't see 4th on the street, ever! The M insists on it.

I get so annoyed reading rave after rave of the M-3. This month's Autobile has a long term wrap up on their M-3..They give it 5 stars..when one of the writers comments that it is a little 'harsh' in the ride, they call it a 'man's suspension'. What a joke! It has the most iritating suspension I can imagine in a so called high end vehicle. There is no excuse. It is not a matter of better performance. IT IS WRONG!! Help!

haha..It will make someone happy, I guess.

I am selling it for a huge loss and glad to be done at this point.

I look forward to reading your story!

Mark

 

Mark,

I also read that Automobile long term wrap, and had to chuckle. The M3 is much too luxury-oriented to function as a true sports car, for me at least. I hope you don't take a huge loss. We were lucky enough to get $51K from the dealer last September for our example, but then heard that it took the dealer 6 months to unload it. I bet they wouldn't be willing to give that much for it again.

I purchased the M3 based on the reviews, without ever having driven one. I've promised myself never to do that again. In fact, I'm very interested in the upcoming Aston Martin AMV8, but will force myself to wait until it's been out a couple of years before considering it.

 

I have driven both vehicles and bought the Cayenne. The FX45 has the feel and look of a station wagon on steroids, the interior feels cramped and overwhelmed by brushed aluminum accents. It certainly is fast but the ride is harsh and typical of Japanese cars, not all that connected to the road. The FX45 that I drove seemed pretty cheap inside in contrast to a very civilized and comfortable Cayenne interior. I suspect that three years from now, my Cayenne will lose less value than the Infiniti.

I generally use the New York Times to wrap fish so I am not at all surprised for them to offer an article of such striking negativity. Frankly, where would a NY Times writer use a Cayenne?

The article was amusing but should have little influence on those of us that believe that Porsche builds a terrific product.

 

Congrats on the Cayenne, Cay-ute. I do not disagree with your take on the design. But I enjoyed the ride, stiff suspension and all. It definetely looked cheaper on the interior as well. I predict it will drop like a stone in value compared to the Cayenne. I would never purchase one. I would lease it if I were to get it.

I thought it was a blast to drive and think it would blow the Cayenne off the road.

But it is not a POrsche, that is for sure.

I think driving in NY City is an 'off road' experience.

Mark

 

Mark, Having Driven the FX and the Cayenne S (and TT) I would not agree that the FX would blow the Cayenne off the road. The FX is very sporty below 4000, probably quicker than the Cayenne,but midway thru 3rd the Cayenne S really hits stride and is much more powerful, faster.

1/8 mile - FX45
1/4 mile - even
1/2 mile - Cayenne

I do agree that driving in NY is an "off road" experience1

Cheers,

Ken

 

Cay-ute

You crack me up...

1/8 mile - FX45
1/4 mile - FX45
1/2 mile - FX45
Top End - FX45

Cayenne huffing and puffing to try and catch it's fat a$$ up to the FX45.

FX45 "cheap on the inside" ? Hello, what are you smoking now? I have pictures that prove the FX45 is every bit as good if not BETTER than the Cayenne on the inside. Check out <a href="http://www.smiley.net/carshow03.htm" target="_blank">http://www.smiley.net/carshow03.htm</a> for yourself and see. Pictures don't lie.

If you are wondering about Porsches losing value, take a look at the 996's and Boxsters selling for way below what people thought they would be due to the economy. A 2001 Boxster S that sold new for 58K just sold for $32K on Ebay recently. 2 years and more that $25K drop, OUCH! At this point it is pure speculation which car will hold its value more the FX45 or the Cayenne, but considering that Porsche has already announced a redesign for the Cayenne to fix some of its shortcoming I don't see how the first year models will hold their value as well as later models might. Besides the whole "holding value" is a pretty stupid argument anyway, cars depreciate, they aren't investments, if you want to do something smart with your money invest it in a guaranteed return investment (CD, etc.) and ride a bicycle to work, better for your financials, better for the environment and better for your health...

So let's get back to the important topic of the March Madness brackets, anyone else out there think that the selection committee made some major screw ups this year and WAY over stacked the West region???

 

Yep, the West is loaded.

Based on all the top 20 teams that lost in their last outing before the Dance, I'd say this year tournament could be wide open.

 

Ken2ks - I guess you see Ebay as the definitive source on pricing for Porsches - I think you spend too much time on the computer and not enough in the real world. I drove both vehicles, both were quick, both have a style their own. The FX45 is a typical Japanese vehicle, plenty of gadgets, but high on copying someone elses development.

Interior wise- the FX45 looks like a high tech Tokyo sushi bar, plenty of aluminum counterspace, lousy ergonomics, nice leather but cheaply constructed seat cushions. It does have a nice nav system but lousy stereo. I don't need pictures, I drove the FX for a couple of hours 2 weeks ago. I know what I saw, maybe you should actually see a Cayenne so you would add an inch of credibility to your comments.

Performance wise, I thought the FX had plenty of power. But not as powerful as the Cayenne

Save your economic comments for yourself, since your post clearly demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the topic. If you shop for Porsches on EBAY, then you are not qualified to comment on the economics of the vehicle. By the way, what's a 2 year old Q 45 sell for these days?

I would be pleased to personally demonstrate my Cayenne against your sushi bar on wheels any day.

Have a nice discussion on the tournament and leave the Cayenne discussion to those who actually have something of value to discuss.

Can you feel the love?

 

Ken2ks - I guess you see Ebay as the definitive source on pricing for Porsches - I think you spend too much time on the computer and not enough in the real world.

Ebay, Cars.com, autobytel.com, carpoint.com and several others are GOOD indicators of value in the open market, just as good as your local paper or the most recent copy of Excellence or Panorama, although prices are likely to be a little higher in the latter due to the enthusiast audience targeted. I suppose those sellers on those websites and others aren't real people but just ficticious dealers and individuals?

I drove both vehicles, both were quick, both have a style their own. The FX45 is a typical Japanese vehicle, plenty of gadgets, but high on copying someone elses development.

And whose development would that be?? The FX45 is a completely new platform based on Nissan's FM platform shared by the G35 and incorporates the ATTESA system made famous on the Skyline GTRs. The Cayenne is a much closer copy of other similar SUV's than the FX45 is of have you not looked at the X5, Mercedes and others? Oh wait there's that VW Touareg too, hmmm yes I know joint development but one could argue that the Cayenne is a copy of the T-reg.

Interior wise- the FX45 looks like a high tech Tokyo sushi bar, plenty of aluminum counterspace, lousy ergonomics, nice leather but cheaply constructed seat cushions.

WHAT??????????? The leather in the FX is TOP NOTCH, look at any of the reviews of this vehicle, Seating is the most comfortable of any vehicle in its class hands down. Our neighbors are avid Mercedes enthusiasts and after riding/driving our FX remarked that the seats were just like fine leather seats they'd buy for their home, much better than anything in their Mercedes.

It does have a nice nav system but lousy stereo.

Lousy Stereo? Are you deaf from listening to too much Willie Nelson or something? 300+ watts of power to a very well balanced Bose system. I let members of our local PCA club sit in the back and watch Star Wars Episode 2 on the DVD screen with the movie pumping through the Bose system and several remarked that it sounded better than their home theater systems in terms of balance, clarity and excellent bass response. These are guys that buy Linn and other fine top end audio gear, not Sony "Xplode" buyers.

I don't need pictures, I drove the FX for a couple of hours 2 weeks ago. I know what I saw, maybe you should actually see a Cayenne so you would add an inch of credibility to your comments.

Maybe you missed the fact that I've driven the Cayenne on multipe occassions now? A fact mentioned in this and other threads prior, although I will admit that I didn't do any serious off-roading in my testing, something that the Cayenne would excel in versus the FX.

Performance wise, I thought the FX had plenty of power. But not as powerful as the Cayenne

Have you even LOOKED at the torque specs or the power to weight ratio? SOmething is wrong with your "butt-dyno", you should get it checked out.

Save your economic comments for yourself, since your post clearly demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the topic. If you shop for Porsches on EBAY, then you are not qualified to comment on the economics of the vehicle. By the way, what's a 2 year old Q 45 sell for these days?

I don't know, I'm not in the market for a 2 year old Q45, and I can, will and do shop for Porsches in a variety of places, including Ebay and am much more qualified to talk about the "economics" of Porsche and other vehicles than you can probably ever hope to be.

I would be pleased to personally demonstrate my Cayenne against your sushi bar on wheels any day.

Sure, I made the challenge to a BMW X5 4.6 owner who backed down, I'll make the same to you, bring your Cayenne to the PCA DE event at HPT in April and I'm happy to watch you disappear in my rear view mirror while comfortably sipping water from my 20oz bottle that actually fits in a "cup holder"

Have a nice discussion on the tournament and leave the Cayenne discussion to those who actually have something of value to discuss.

Can you feel the love?

I can feel the ignorance in your posts if that's what you mean by "love". You keep right on believing that you bought a "performance" Porsche, unless you are going off-road there's really no reason for you to reply and dig yourself in any deeper......

 

FX45 torque: 329 lb-ft
Cayenne S torque: 310 lb-ft

FX45 weight: 4299
Cayenne weight: 4949

FX45 max tow capacity: 3500 pounds
Cayenne S max tow capacity: 7716 pounds!

Sometimes number are misleading. I don't understand why the FX45 has a so good torque/weight ratio and is so poor at towing.

If it was towing at least 6000 pounds I would consider it...

Ken2KS have you tried a Cayenne. If think you'll be positively surprised.

Arnaud

 

Ken2kS - The Cayenne is my 11th Porsche, so please quit with the authorative tone of your posts, others on this forum do have experience, some, pray tell, more than you. Indeed, I have noticed your previous threads and more interestingly, I have noticed the keen interest that many of the other folks on this forum took to your unsubstantiated comments, followed quickly by weak-kneed defenses on your part.

What's wrong with WIllie Nelson anyway? Although I would assume Barry Manilow is more your style?

I appreciate the fact that you enjoy your FX45 - although it is not to my taste - I need a vehicle that can actually go offroad, I wonder if the FX45 will race in the Pikes Peak Hill Climb - There are at least two teams planning to race private Cayennes there this July. I doubt we will see the Infiniti - as we will probably never see the FX45 in Paris-Dakar or other events of that type.

I may get this part wrong, but isn't the G35 a street car? I think I saw one the other day, very nice. Tell me how exactly that this platform benefits an SUV, SAV or whatever you want to call it? Joint development of the Cayenne/Toureg/Pikes Peak between Porsche/Audi/Volvo is not copying, it is a smart way to share platform development costs.

Look, this is probably getting us no where other than to trade barbs and totally avoid the opportunity to exchange information. I am very happy with my Cayenne, I am pleased that you enjoy the FX45.

If you will decrypt the HPT acronym, I will consider coming and we can put the vehicles to the test.

PS visited your website, very nice Boxster and well done site.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Ken2KS:
<strong>...Are you deaf from listening to too much Willie Nelson or something?...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What's wrong with listening good ol' Willie?!

 

I looked at the FX45 before I bought a Cayenne S. We have a dealer that sells Porsche and Infiniti (as well as MB, Land Rover, etc.). The FX45 looks good on paper, but I couldn't warm up to the design in the flesh. I didn't particularly care for the Cayenne in the darker colors (to much contrast with the aluminum trim). There's nothing inherently wrong with either one - just didn't suit our tastes.

I will say that the FX45 has fairly poor rear visibility. Infiniti has tried to ameliorate that shortcoming with the rear-looking camera option. I don't think the FX45 will fare nearly as well off-road as the Cayenne. I'd tend to agree with Ken that the FX45 would probably take a Cayenne S through the half-mile. I doubt it would take it up through the top-end though. I could'nt find any top-speed information on Infiniti's web site, but I'm guessing it will be speed-limited to 130-something for liability reasons. The Cayenne S tops out at 150.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Flying Finn:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Ken2KS:
<strong>...Are you deaf from listening to too much Willie Nelson or something?...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What's wrong with listening good ol' Willie?!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">YEA?!?!?!