Hi, everyone. I'm a reporter, working on a story about the Cayenne, and I'm hoping you all can help me. I'm trying to talk to as many tried-and-true Porsche devotees as I can, and get their opinions of the new SUV. If you've got thoughts, I'd love to hear them. Shoot me an email offline at jasontanz@mac.com. (And yes, I'm legit. I promise.)

Thanks for your time.

Best,
Jason Tanz

 

Folks on this board are pretty passionate about the Cayenne, both pro and con. You should hear from a few. I'm struggling mightily to be noncommittal until I see one in the flesh and drive it.

I recommend reading all (maybe most) of the prior threads on this board, although I don't know how the posters would/should feel about attribution in some instances.

 

Here's one, this is from another post I wrote:

I'm sure Cayenne will be very fine truck, no doubt about it.

It's just that the direction where Porsche is heading: They've dumbed their roots, the reason why Porsche is what it is, Racing heritage, in order to build an SUV. Maybe it's nice that Porsche will earn tons of money (which they already have) because of this but at the same time they have lost their most valuable thing they had. This all might be fine for few years but where will Porsche be after five years, or 10, 20?

If Porsche had done this same 'smart' move (stopped racing & started building cars like SUV) in the 70's, where would Porsche be today??

That's a scary thought but in my mind I can't see Porsche being what it still (not for long I imagine) is today: sportscar manufacturer with glorious racing heritage which you can find in their products.

Sad though, but I think 20 years from now, Porsche is just another car (note: not sportscar) manufacturer that we all remember while driving with our vintage 993 Porsches.

Another note: I just read latest 911& Porsche world magazine and the story about Cayenne revealed what was the final step that made Porsche to go ahead and build Cayenne:
California yuppies!

I hate California yuppies!" <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

 

Hey Finn,
I don't know where you get the idea that Porsche was rolling in the cash and just had plenty of it to throw around. The fact is, that they are struggling to maintain independence. Are you really that plugged into Porsche management that you know for a fact that they are "abandoning racing to build SUVs"? I mean, I am not to happy about their being almost no racing presence from Porsche over the last few years as well, but really... just for a second consider that this may be a platform to launch a whole new breed of Porsche racing engines. Porsche worked long and hard to get the BMW M3 GTR banned from competition for having a V-8 in it, instead of the street versions V-6. But I think they also caught the message that they might want to eventually consider alternate platforms other than the flat-six for future racing endeavors. I don't want to start a huge discussion about the merits of a V-8 vs. a flat-six, but at least it shows some forward thinking as opposed to being trapped by tradition. Honestly- I can't wait to see the first 996 - Cayenne TT engine swap kit. LOL

 

[quote] The fact is, that they are struggling to maintain independence. <hr></blockquote>

Really? They have had the best back-to-back-to-back years in their history. They pretty much paid for this rig and the plant to build it from cash surplus, and that came at the expense of a factory racing effort.

[quote]... just for a second consider that this may be a platform to launch a whole new breed of Porsche racing engines. <hr></blockquote>

Really? This is a truck platform, that has no other purpose then being a truck platform. As far as the V8TT, you'll get no arguement on the need for more horsepower.

 

Interviews with Porsche company representatives in Excellence and Panorama give the reader that idea that they have sufficient cash. That being said, there is no public access to their balance sheets. So, to claim either way is simply a guess. I see the Cayenne as a bold move, but typically German...."Do not sway me with facts, my mind is made up".......If the economy falters, then it is a gamble. If the economy rebounds well, then it is a lead pipe cinch. Because of the novelty, it should do quite well for the first few years. After that, my crystal ball becomes quite cloudy.

Now, as an individual, I would have been happier if the company had developed the vehicle as "The Cayenne by Porsche" rather than the "Porsche Cayenne". Porsche, to the world, is synonumous with a teardrop shaped sportscar, not with a high centered heavy trucklike vehicle. Any vehicle "Built by Porsche" will, to many, indicate strength and agility. But, like one Rennlister puts it "It may have a Porsche crest, but if it has four doors and can be mistaken for an Outback, I ain't interested".

Porsche can build anything it wants. And it can call it anything it wants. But to most of the world, the Cayenne will probably never be foremost in people's minds when they hear the word "Porsche".

 

Scott,

I'm just referring what Porsche management has said in various different occasions.

mpm pretty much summed it up.

They've had huge succes during last few years and Porsche management SAID that they'll lay off the racing because they are building this truck.
They originally said it will be for a year or so but it has been for three years now and I'm still not seeing any efforts towards racing.

This thing is built for California Yuppies (again, I haven't made that one up) to make money and for sure is not any kind of effort towards racing.

Racing is what made Porsche what it is today, let's see how long will it take for Porsche to be just another car manufacturer without racing & with building trucks.
Because that's where 'we' are heading.

 

I for one don't know what all the fuss is about. Actually a truck/4WD vehicle fits in with Porsche's heritage. Before the 356 there were:

Porsche VK. 45.01(H) prototype(forerunner of best tank in WWII, the Tiger)

188-ton Maus (mouse)

Jagdpanzer SdKfz 184 Ferdinand

VW Schwimmwagen

Jagdwagen type 597

As far as racing, don't you think that F. Piech, Chair of Audi and Porsche descendent, had some influence on that decision.

 

Paul,

Pleeease.

 

By the way my post was not entirely tongue in cheek; I really think the racing thing has alot to do with NOT beating Audi. As far as Cayenne, the market will tell. I bet most Porsche enthusiasts have SUVS and tow vehicles anyway, so why not a Porsche? They will sell a ton in Saudi I bet.

I look at it this way. If independence is a key (e.g., not being owned by VW or Daimler-Chrysler) then they have to do what they must to stay profitable. I'd hate to see them become part of a conglomerate.

FYI, Check this one out:

<a href="http://leo.worldonline.es/jaumepor/angles/porsches/por_166en.htm" target="_blank">http://leo.worldonline.es/jaumepor/angles/porsches/por_166en.htm</a>

 

Jason, my best advice to you is to spend half an hour reading over the past threads in the Cayenne forum. You'll get a pretty good spread of opinions as to how the enterprise sits with those of us who inhabit this corner of the Porsche scene.

The most interesting thing I have observed from the debate is how the new model highlights different peoples perception of Porsche.

Most interestingly, it would seem that Porsche has succesfully marketed itself in America on the back of it's Sports Car competition success. Le Mans, Can Am etc have been embedded in the pysche of the Marque enthusiast in North America to a great extent. This has manifested itself in a resentment against the recent factories decision to suspend it's prototype racing effort.

You get a very different feeling here in Europe, closer to the home of the manufacturer. Instead of the "racing is everything" view, Porsche in Europe has always been regarded as a car manufacturer and engineering specialist that has very succesfully used that knowledge in motorsport. Just as important to many over here as the Le Mans wins, was Porsches involvement in the F1 successes with McLaren and the TAG engines in the 80's. There was the engineering and technical know-how of a small specialist firm being demonstrated at the leading edge of competition.

You bought your 80's Porsche with the feeling that the same knowledge had been engineered into the cars. But I would argue that you never regarded Porsche as a racing firm manufacturing cars. Quite the opposite.

Perhaps the difference in perception of Porsche comes from the comparative market in Europe and North America. Over here Porsche has been in competition with a myriad of similar car manufacturers, large and small. There has always been a culture of smaller manual gearbox cars.

Right from the fifties and sixties, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Austin Healey, Ferrari, Maserati, Lamborghini, Alfa Romeo, Alpine, BMW, Jensen, Lotus, Mercedes, MG etc produced a stream of small sporty cars that were regarded as almost unremarkable in configuration to most European car enthusiasts.

Of these only two could argue to be Racing manufacturers with a car sideline - Ferrari and Lotus. Both had dominant owners for whom racing was their first love. I would argue that Porsche was very different. He was an engineer in the same way Chapman was, but car production and manufacture was where he excelled. Not until the seventies would Porsche begin to dominate motorsport, long after the car production was established and successful.

I am not an American expert, but imagine that Porsche's have always been regarded even more highly across the atlantic down to the huge differences between them and the more standard US built everyday "Auto". Large, heavy, automatic gas guzzling "wagons" parked alongside a 911 makes a stark contrast.

To many in this forum, not taking a Porsche to a track and "using it to it's full potential" is akin to some form of sacrelige. I would argue that this view is most predominant in the US.

Over here Porsches are highly regarded as fast road cars, designed for roads. A few models are specified with suspension, brake and engine modifications that improves their track performance. But to suggest that any model has been designed with track performance at the top of the priority list is just plain wrong.

And here is where the paradox of the Cayenne raises itself. To most Europeans, the Cayenne will be judged on it's merits as a car, in competition with Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover etc. If it is better than the ML, X5, Range Rover and appeals to the aspirations of those SUV owners it will do well. However, in America, where it's potential biggest market lies, it has to break free from the motorsport association that Porsche has so succefully exploited.

To many American enthusiasts it also has to justify itself alongside the unhappiness that the withdrawl from Prototype racing has provoked.

Will it manage to triumph over such a handicap? If it does I suspect it will be over the wounded bodies of more than a few hardened American Porsche Enthusiasts........ But then perhaps there are enough potential owners new to the Marque for it not to matter.

Makes you wonder though, how many 993 owners will flash or return flash a passing Cayenne.....

 

Porsche has and still does market itself based on it's racing heritage. The company still regards the current 911 like it's a race car.

From the 2002 911 brochure: "Over the past 50 years, there have been more thn 23,000 Porsche race victories...At Porsche, we have always built different race cars for different applications. The same holds true with our 911...Here is an automobile capable of speeds in excess of 170 mph on the race track....By any measue the current 911, rides on one of the most race ready chasis ever created....The technology and componets needed to protect a racing driver at 200 mph can obviously be a signifigant safety asset at highway speeds. Imagine braking safely from over 200 mph for a 40 or 50 mph corner in less than a hundred yards. Porsche race cars do it hour after hour, lap after lap at places like Le Mans, Daytona, and Sebring....etc."

We have no autobahn here, the national speed limit is 75 mph. The track is the only place in the U.S. that one can safely explore all the technology we paid for. Of course that's what we think. As far as the Cayenne, they can boast about the Paris-Dakar Rally. I still think it's weird and ugly.

Written by AFJuvat: "What the hell were they thinking?!" Every SUV needs a 4.5 liter twin turbo engine and cupholders for Juniors Hi-C juice-box in the back seat. Looks like what you would get if a 911 mated with a Hyundai Santa Fe. Expected to be one of the best designed Porsches ever, since they obviously moved the engineers that USED to work on the LeMans cars to the project. This is the one area where airhead and wethead can generally agree: "It ain't a Porsche."

But it is.....

 

[quote]Makes you wonder though, how many 993 owners will flash or return flash a passing Cayenne..... <hr></blockquote>

Christian, here in Boston only 993s and older 911s seem to appreciate the classic P-car salute. I highly doubt soccer moms in their new P-fishies, speeding off to the mall (where you of course get to use all of that 160 mph top end ), will be too busy with that cell phone plugged to their ear to ever even notice <img src="graemlins/oops.gif" border="0" alt="[oops]" />

 

[quote]Originally posted by Christian Stewart:
<strong>To many in this forum, not taking a Porsche to a track and "using it to it's full potential" is akin to some form of sacrelige. I would argue that this view is most predominant in the US.

Over here Porsches are highly regarded as fast road cars, designed for roads. A few models are specified with suspension, brake and engine modifications that improves their track performance. But to suggest that any model has been designed with track performance at the top of the priority list is just plain wrong. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Christian,

As Rob stated, American highways tend to be long and straight, with a lot of slow drivers in the left lane, speed limits of 55 - 70 mph, and laws that allow you to be arrested for exceeding the speed limit by 30 mph. Not exactly a good recipe for spirited driving. The track is one of the few places where you can truly enjoy driving and explore a Porsche's excellent engineering and capabilities.

Of course, any car designed for practical daily road use will by necessity incorporate design features that limit ultimate track performance, but I think Porsche components (brakes, engine, suspension) are designed to withstand the rigors of track use.

I subscribe to a number of British magazines (evo, Autocar, Car), and they suggest that the hunger for track days is steadily growing in Europe as well. Maybe, more Europeans think of Porsches as nice track cars than you realize.

Good luck with your story, Jason.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Anir:
<strong>

I subscribe to a number of British magazines (evo, Autocar, Car), and they suggest that the hunger for track days is steadily growing in Europe as well. Maybe, more Europeans think of Porsches as nice track cars than you realize.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well aware of the track day craze growing here in Europe and most especially the UK, Anir. Mostly down to the increasing urbanisation of England but also the increasing availability of high performance cars to the general public.

Apart from the well known circuits, an increasing number of disused airfields have been converted and it is big business. I've even been known to attend the odd one myself.....

I'm lucky to be from a motorsport family and have spent much of my childhood knocking around various locations and events over here. A small shudder has probably been bred into me as a reaction to seeing the abuse given to "road" cars on circuits.

Now Porsches can cope pretty well - depending on the level of abuse and extent you want to push things. Most however are, as you point out, limited by the compromise given to daily road use, which I maintain is the primary design purpose for most Porsches in the past as well as the present.

If you subscribe to UK mags you will have seen road tests on remote Welsh and Scottish roads. I'm lucky to live in the middle of the Scottish variety and enjoy them to the full. Political correctness with speed cameras and the campaining to make "speeding as socially unacceptable as drink-driving" makes it much harder to enjoy even the roads I love. The latest crackpot scheme is to give all UK "B" roads a 40mph speed limit....... regardless of how remote they are.

So for many the track is the only option - I never take my 87 Cab but have been known to borrow my brothers Lotus Exige for a bit of fun.

I do take issue however with those who seem to hold "road-only" users of Porsches in contempt - they are road cars, get used to it......