Hi George

I thought the Box was meant to be the 550 successor. PCNA even has a commercial to that point.

The actual production car is much larger than the show car. I remember the explanation being they couldn't meet the fed regulations with the smaller car -- which is why the Elise isn't sold here as well.

You're right it's a big car, much bigger than my 993.

They got the proportions right though -- it looks small.

M

 

I understand the Elise is coming this Fall- at 38K fully loaded. But with only 120HP; from what I'm hearing it will not be an Elise enthusiasts (or at least that I) would want- the horsepower figures and the added weight of options and safety features would seem to dictate it won't be the same thing you get in the UK or Australia.

I don't mean to diss the Boxster- I think its a fine car- it's just that for my money there are cars (say an M3/M Roadster/Coupe) that offer much more value for the money and are more palatably sized.

 

Hi All,
Are we back to all this 'LOVE...HATE MY BRAND' again?

Boys and girls, we live in the 21st Century. For any manufacturer (irrespective of product lines) to survive they must be profitable. To be profitable you need PRODUCTS, not A PRODUCT, that will sell. A bulging order book is the ‘Holy Grail’ for the 21st Century manufacturer and a good sign that your PRODUCTS are selling. Take note…wide range, means better choice. Better choice means customer satisfaction guaranteed!

In the good 'ol days, manufacturers made one or two lines for the privileged few. Of those bespoke hundreds of car manufacturers, I can count the remaining independent ones ALL on one hand! That is the reality for those boys & girls who are constantly moaning about manufactures venturing into new markets.

Truly, you can’t have your cake (i.e. single line bespoke products for the privileged few) and eat it (i.e. cost effective – CHEAP TO BUY & MAINTAIN, well developed, reliable, unique, desirable & exclusive)

 

Look guys, Porsche builds cars that are automotive works of art. Under the skin no other car can compare. Yes there are those with similar and even better numbers on paper. Go read about the Subaru WRX. Impressive. Go drive one. Crap. Look under the skin of a Boxster and you too will see impressive engineering. Sure, Porsche could build a $30 to $35K Boxster, but it wouldnt have 4 piston Brembo brakes, super lightweight alumunim(read EXPENSIVE) suspension components, etc. It would be more like an MR2 or something worse! Porsches excellence is under the skin. Yes the Boxster still looks the same since 97, but a 2002 is a different car than a 97. Its what we dont see that makes our cars WAY better than the others...

ROCK ON PORSCHE!!!

 

Sorry, fellas..

I have torn down and rebuilt too many cars (including various Porsche models) to buy into the idea that everything Porsche builds is excellent. I think a lot of what they have produced is brilliant, but they have had their share of boneheaded designs as well. Engineering schools all teach the same subjects; physics is physics; no manufacturer has the edge on technology, particularly since most manufacturers farm out so many sub elements. That being said, Ford Motors and others love to sell the top end vehicles since the profit margin is so high per unit sold. The mechanical difference between a loaded Ford SUV and a Lincoln SUV is minimal; the added price is for the nameplate. Producing a low end car leaves one open to economic ups and downs. But, the high end buyer is less sensitive to market and economic glitches; they have the money anyway. Porsche is selling the idea to those who can afford it that this new vehicle is the answer to their ego problems. Good or bad, the vehicle will sell. Porsche LOVES this hype; as one wag once said "Even bad publicity is better than no publicity at all".

 

Bob S - I agree. But I would add that the Brand has changed. In 1993, when I was 19, I had the priviledge of buying a 1979 911SC Targa for $11,500. Anytime I passed a Porsche on the road, EVERY Porsche owner would waive or flash me the brights. This was true from old 924s up to new 911 Turbos. It was a club, and I loved both the look of the car and the bullet-proof engineering (yes, I still own the car and have put on 50K miles with minimal maintenance problems)... When I moved to Silicon Valley during the late 90s, NO ONE waived.... In fact, I have NEVER had a Boxster owner waive to me.

My point? Porsche has changed. And they can't blame the buyer. My close friends who were "Porsche Nuts" have moved on to M3s and Corvettes because of the value. A few are now into Ferrari's because of the exclusivity. I chose not to buy a new C4 Cab because the interior is cheap, so I went for a 94 Speedster and am still looking for a perfect black 93 RSA. I get more value and a solid car. It is sad but true. And now an SUV? They sold out, and I will never forgive them for it. And btw, that damn SUV is ugly. What were they thinking?

(Sorry for being so hostile - but I am so disheartened by what has become of the brand)

-Blake

My Dream List-
-94 Speedster (got it)
-93 RSA
-98 C4S
-550 Spyder (Beck)
-73 RS

 

94 Speedster,

You stole my thoughts, what can I say?

 

There isn't a company on the planet (that is doing well)that hasn't sold out.

What exclusivity are you talking about with Ferrari? They revamped everything in order to sell more cars and they do. Out here in Southern California you can see multiple 360's, 550's and Maranello's running around. Sometimes on the same block. Of course they took a different route in reshaping the offerings in order to attract more buyers (and it worked) but Ferrari has been and always will be more exclusive than Porsche. Period.

As for some of the cheapness in the newer models, I would agree with you on that. On the whole though, across many different makes, I think this is true however as they all seek to streamline costs and the production process.

 

Does Ferrari have an SUV? Have they lowered their prices? Are more people flocking to Ferrari than before? Look, if I have $100K to spend on a car, I probably can afford a $150K car as well. My point is that Porsche has lost buyers to Ferrari, BMW and Corvette based on value received and exclusivity. I will agree that in SoCal Ferraris are more exclusive than Porsches, but that does not apply in New York/New England. In the late 80s/early 90s all of the rich doctors, lawyers and brokers who COULD buy Ferraris were buying Porsches because they were more reliable, the social group was larger, there was more opportunity for track events, and they were just as much fun to drive. In a different context, which is more exclusive – golf or polo? Millions more play golf, but I would argue that both hold equal footing as an exclusive sport. Porsche made their money for half a century by selling exclusive sports cars and providing engineering consulting services. Both are high margin businesses. Both have provided them with a very strong reputation and a powerful brand. Now brand extension is not new – the fashion industry has been doing it for years. But they do it to a point. Has Ralph Lauren offered his name to the auto industry? No– because he only plays in the fashion business (i.e. what we wear and what our homes look like). Referencing your tractor analogy, why has John Deere not produced a pick-up truck, or at least partnered with Chevy or Ford to make one? It is because their brand represents reliability, and they have not found a competent partner. Makes sense to me. Streamlining costs is one thing. Affecting quality is another – and the two do NOT have to come together (just look at ANY Japanese car – the quality is there for a fair price)

 

Real Porsche nuts value what is Real Porsche in their Porsches. I care most for the unique driving performance that defines the Porsche idiom. If you really want that, there is no alternative. In my experience, a great deal of it remains in the current line-up, along w/ impressive design & engineering enhancements.

We shall see about the C - I'm avoiding a priori judgements. My current opinion is that it will succeed (be profitable) over 5-7 years & Porsche will leverage the new powertrain development into the next (last?) great "911". Conditions may then dictate that they drop the SUV line like the 928.

So what? As long as they make a uniquely Porsche 911-type sports car, its ok by me.

 

Ferrari does not have an SUV and my statement, "Of course they took a different route in reshaping the offerings in order to attract more buyers....." was meant to reflect just that.

Had Porsche gone the same route as Ferrari, I do not think it would have succeeded. As for the Japanese, who do you think came in to show Porsche how to do things? Toyota. Let us take a closer look at the Japanese. The guys in the factory make less money than their German and American counterparts AND get less vacation time than Americans who in turn get FAR LESS vacation time than Germans. That's why German manufacturers are building a bunch of cars here on U.S. soil. We're their Mexico.

So, as soon as you find some Germans that are willing to give up those six week summer vacations and big salaries, you let me know. I'm quite certain they can then figure out a way to build Porsche's to Japanese specs.

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