do you think BMW fans agonized over the X-5?
12-23-2002, 05:22 PM
#16
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From a price/value standpoint, Porsche is certainly delivering if performance is the yardstick: The turbo and the GT2 are good value. When i looked at the order form for my [small] Cayenne it was $97K; I'm not sure if that's good value yet. That means my Cayenne XL will be $110K? Wait 'til the limo stretchers you see in DuPont Registry start selling stretched Cayennes!!!! That'll pull a few chains...
12-24-2002, 01:43 PM
#18
The Cayenne is a four-door family vehicle.
If you would like to see Porsche concentrate its efforts on producing great four-door family vehicles, then you have every reason to be excited about Cayenne. It will be an outstanding family vehicle, probably the sportiest in its class.
However, if you would prefer Porsche concentrate on building great two-door sports cars, then you have reason to be concerned with Cayenne.
From a certain point of view, why should Porsche even bother making sports cars anymore? After all, sports cars are expendable purchases that fluctuate with the ebb and flow of the economy.
Couldn't Porsche ensure greater profitability and independence by producing additional family vehicles? Are you ready to support a Porsche station wagon, minivan, sedan, and pickup truck?
Porsche has already suspended the factory racing program to develop the Cayenne. If you had been told ten years ago that Porsche would quit racing to make a family truck, would you have believed it possible? What else will be suspended to develop more family vehicles and enhance Porsche profitability?
I'm sure the Cayenne is going to be a big sales success for Porsche. I'm not so sure that it takes the company in a direction that sports car fans will like.
But fans of family vehicles have every reason to be thrilled.
If you would like to see Porsche concentrate its efforts on producing great four-door family vehicles, then you have every reason to be excited about Cayenne. It will be an outstanding family vehicle, probably the sportiest in its class.
However, if you would prefer Porsche concentrate on building great two-door sports cars, then you have reason to be concerned with Cayenne.
From a certain point of view, why should Porsche even bother making sports cars anymore? After all, sports cars are expendable purchases that fluctuate with the ebb and flow of the economy.
Couldn't Porsche ensure greater profitability and independence by producing additional family vehicles? Are you ready to support a Porsche station wagon, minivan, sedan, and pickup truck?
Porsche has already suspended the factory racing program to develop the Cayenne. If you had been told ten years ago that Porsche would quit racing to make a family truck, would you have believed it possible? What else will be suspended to develop more family vehicles and enhance Porsche profitability?
I'm sure the Cayenne is going to be a big sales success for Porsche. I'm not so sure that it takes the company in a direction that sports car fans will like.
But fans of family vehicles have every reason to be thrilled.
12-25-2002, 08:54 PM
#19
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[quote]Originally posted by watt:
<strong> That means my Cayenne XL will be $110K? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Watt -- totally agree. The Cayenne is just too small looking. It reminds me of the very first 996 body. Where are the bulges and curves? And what's the point of an SUV doing 165 unless it is the size of an Excursion. Let's see people make fun of the Cayenne XL as it comes at them like a freight train! In fact, let's give it a train horn!
Put me on the wating list for the XL!
<strong> That means my Cayenne XL will be $110K? </strong><hr></blockquote>
Watt -- totally agree. The Cayenne is just too small looking. It reminds me of the very first 996 body. Where are the bulges and curves? And what's the point of an SUV doing 165 unless it is the size of an Excursion. Let's see people make fun of the Cayenne XL as it comes at them like a freight train! In fact, let's give it a train horn!
Put me on the wating list for the XL!
12-26-2002, 08:28 PM
#21
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Hey Kevin, how ya been?
"Defenders of Porsche Purism"
Been away from the controversy for a while, but I like that term for the anti-Pepper crowd.
Did you consider "Defenders Interested in Porsche Purism", or were you concerned about an unfortunate acronym?
Mike
"Defenders of Porsche Purism"
Been away from the controversy for a while, but I like that term for the anti-Pepper crowd.
Did you consider "Defenders Interested in Porsche Purism", or were you concerned about an unfortunate acronym?
Mike
12-27-2002, 03:32 PM
#22
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Mike, Happy Holidays & New Year! As no doubt have we all, trying to assure that '02 was a great business year by working like a fiend through December.
There is no such thing as an unfortunate acronym... How 'bout Dispirited Understanders of Porsche EugenicS?
Seriously, I am fairly sure we all agree on far more (concerning Porsches, anyway) than we differ about. It seems that Porsche Enthusiasts are passionate, unafraid to voice their opinions, & (mostly) don't give a whit for censure from the "mainstream".
In addition to getting in a few nice country drives, I will be playing w/ "O" scale electric trains this weekend - isn't it great getting toys (for the kids, of course) for Christmas?
There is no such thing as an unfortunate acronym... How 'bout Dispirited Understanders of Porsche EugenicS?
Seriously, I am fairly sure we all agree on far more (concerning Porsches, anyway) than we differ about. It seems that Porsche Enthusiasts are passionate, unafraid to voice their opinions, & (mostly) don't give a whit for censure from the "mainstream".
In addition to getting in a few nice country drives, I will be playing w/ "O" scale electric trains this weekend - isn't it great getting toys (for the kids, of course) for Christmas?
12-27-2002, 08:20 PM
#23
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Enjoy their toys while you can Kevin.
They grow up and want to play with your toys, or even worse, want toys as expensive as yours.
Happy New Year
Mike
They grow up and want to play with your toys, or even worse, want toys as expensive as yours.
Happy New Year
Mike
12-28-2002, 06:28 PM
#24
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[quote]Originally posted by Serge914:
<strong>Peoples used to say that Porsche was racing in order to sell cars but Ferrari was selling cars so they can race.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is still soo true! I don't see Ferrari building SUV's to "save" the brand. On the contrary they have a healthy F1 program with scored of fans following. Not to mention revenue associated with merchandising, TV rights etc. Yes it belongs to FIAT but...isn't FIAT loosing money and Ferrari making? Pleeeeeeeaaaasssseeeee I'm really sick and tired of the argument that the Fish will save Porsche. Yeah yada yada yada bout the P fish being this and that, I'm not interested in the argument of who should drive it or not. If you fail to recognize terms like brand image then maybe you do not care that the prices of your new toys nosedived or that whoever buys a new P fish will loose so much money when it's time to sell it. Just look at the prices of the S series for the 993's. Constantly at least 10K higher than a regular 993 if not appreciating as the time goes by. Look at the Boxster owners one day the caugh up big money to get in, the next their Boxsters sell cheaper than the 968's...
By the way for those raving about the Performance which objectively it remains to be seen, this is what Georg Kacher wrote in his review of the TT Cayenne in this month's Automobile magazine:
"We returned our Cayenne Turbo with mixed feelings."
" This is an automotive decathlete, skilled in a variety of disciplines" "Still, like a decathlete, the Cayenne isn't a master of any event and comes off lacking some of the crispness and entertainment value for which Porsche is famous".
For those who will get the P Fish enjoy it! Maybe racing heritage, maybe the sound of the flat six does not mean much to , it does not matter we are all different and I accept other people's positions and theories. For me I was willing to accept the PFish if it would mean that Porsche would go back to racing but it does not seem this way anymore. The bottom line from them seem to be money money money. How much of a profit is enough?
In my book a BMW SUV is a natural product and a very nice one at that. The same goes for Mercedes etc. Sorry If i just cannot accept it as part of a Porsche line up.
<strong>Peoples used to say that Porsche was racing in order to sell cars but Ferrari was selling cars so they can race.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is still soo true! I don't see Ferrari building SUV's to "save" the brand. On the contrary they have a healthy F1 program with scored of fans following. Not to mention revenue associated with merchandising, TV rights etc. Yes it belongs to FIAT but...isn't FIAT loosing money and Ferrari making? Pleeeeeeeaaaasssseeeee I'm really sick and tired of the argument that the Fish will save Porsche. Yeah yada yada yada bout the P fish being this and that, I'm not interested in the argument of who should drive it or not. If you fail to recognize terms like brand image then maybe you do not care that the prices of your new toys nosedived or that whoever buys a new P fish will loose so much money when it's time to sell it. Just look at the prices of the S series for the 993's. Constantly at least 10K higher than a regular 993 if not appreciating as the time goes by. Look at the Boxster owners one day the caugh up big money to get in, the next their Boxsters sell cheaper than the 968's...
By the way for those raving about the Performance which objectively it remains to be seen, this is what Georg Kacher wrote in his review of the TT Cayenne in this month's Automobile magazine:
"We returned our Cayenne Turbo with mixed feelings."
" This is an automotive decathlete, skilled in a variety of disciplines" "Still, like a decathlete, the Cayenne isn't a master of any event and comes off lacking some of the crispness and entertainment value for which Porsche is famous".
For those who will get the P Fish enjoy it! Maybe racing heritage, maybe the sound of the flat six does not mean much to , it does not matter we are all different and I accept other people's positions and theories. For me I was willing to accept the PFish if it would mean that Porsche would go back to racing but it does not seem this way anymore. The bottom line from them seem to be money money money. How much of a profit is enough?
In my book a BMW SUV is a natural product and a very nice one at that. The same goes for Mercedes etc. Sorry If i just cannot accept it as part of a Porsche line up.