This is Porsche today (and tomorrow?)
12-17-2002, 01:42 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
This is Porsche today (and tomorrow?)
So this is the Cayenne:
Foot-operated emergency brake!
No manual gearbox for the Turbo, ever.
No manual gearbox at all, until one eventually makes it into the S.
"Big Reds" that aren't big, just red -- the S and the Turbo have the same brakes and calipers, but the Turbo's are painted red -- clearly, marketing has taken priority over engineering.
5,000 - 5,200 pounds
Same as the VW:
- Platform -- the body and chassis, except for the fenders, rear doors, and 70% of the roof -- the whole STRUCTURE!
- Driveline, except engines
- Suspension
- VW builds it, ships it to Leipzig for assembly
According to Ian Kuah's article, Excellence magazine, Feb 2003 issue:
- The column stalks are VW
- Much of the switchgear have "VW internals with covers unique to Porsche."
- Lagaay is quoted, "It was our stated objective that this car must look and feel like a Porsche. So while economics dictated that many of the bits you can't see are shared, all the bits that you can see are unique to the Cayenne."
-- So, what about the "feel" aspect? What you can see doesn't make it feel like a Porsche IMHO!
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
Foot-operated emergency brake!
No manual gearbox for the Turbo, ever.
No manual gearbox at all, until one eventually makes it into the S.
"Big Reds" that aren't big, just red -- the S and the Turbo have the same brakes and calipers, but the Turbo's are painted red -- clearly, marketing has taken priority over engineering.
5,000 - 5,200 pounds
Same as the VW:
- Platform -- the body and chassis, except for the fenders, rear doors, and 70% of the roof -- the whole STRUCTURE!
- Driveline, except engines
- Suspension
- VW builds it, ships it to Leipzig for assembly
According to Ian Kuah's article, Excellence magazine, Feb 2003 issue:
- The column stalks are VW
- Much of the switchgear have "VW internals with covers unique to Porsche."
- Lagaay is quoted, "It was our stated objective that this car must look and feel like a Porsche. So while economics dictated that many of the bits you can't see are shared, all the bits that you can see are unique to the Cayenne."
-- So, what about the "feel" aspect? What you can see doesn't make it feel like a Porsche IMHO!
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
12-17-2002, 02:43 PM
#2
Race Director
<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />
12-17-2002, 03:27 PM
#4
Addict
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> ....... <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> ......... 
..did someone have something new to add..... 
......what a pity, for a second I thought someone might have driven one or at least sat in one....... oh well..... <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> .....
..did someone have something new to add..... ......what a pity, for a second I thought someone might have driven one or at least sat in one....... oh well..... <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> .....
12-17-2002, 04:10 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
993RS -- that's hilarious!
Christian -- you're missing my point. I fully expect it to be the best-performing SUV -- anything less would be even more of a travesty. But since you asked, here's the opinion of someone who drove the Turbo -- Ian Kuah in the above-referenced article: He says the on-road behavior "equals [the X5] in most respects and beats it on some -- most notably straight-line acceleration." He goes on to say, "But it's always obvious that this is a very, very heavy vehicle with a high center of gravity." The emphasis on "very" is Kuah's.
Christian -- you're missing my point. I fully expect it to be the best-performing SUV -- anything less would be even more of a travesty. But since you asked, here's the opinion of someone who drove the Turbo -- Ian Kuah in the above-referenced article: He says the on-road behavior "equals [the X5] in most respects and beats it on some -- most notably straight-line acceleration." He goes on to say, "But it's always obvious that this is a very, very heavy vehicle with a high center of gravity." The emphasis on "very" is Kuah's.
12-17-2002, 04:51 PM
#6
Addict
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Speedraser, I quite possibly did miss your point... my apologies for a somewhat flippant use of Graemlins.... however,
No manual gearbox - hardly surprising considering the combination of vehicle weight and engine torque/power - the six speed tiptronic gets good reviews in most press in manual mode, less favoured responses when left in auto mode. The question is do you really want to stir a stick in an SUV?
Brakes - every review I've read raves about the stopping power despite of the vehicles weight - seems to me you should be raising the Red colour of the brakes as a prime example of how well Porsche can configure discs.....
Weight - it's an SUV so I'm hardly surprised it's lardy - Audi's aluminum take on the sector will no doubt be lighter, but the main competitor to the Cayenne is the RR - hardly a featherweight.
Same as the VW - the chassis, part of the shell and many parts may be the same, but you are gloriously ignoring the fact that the Touareg and Cayenne have been developed seperately with limited sharing of information. So the VW handles more like a Landcruiser and the Cayenne outpoints the X5 in every handling department - something to do with power split ratio's, centre differential programming more akin to Mitsubishi Evo Rally cars etc etc...
As for the shipping from VW to Leipzig, where do you think the 996 frame come from..... BMW and it does alright considering in my book....
Magazine reviews - the vast majority agree that it's going to be the daddy of SUV's, seemingly defying the theory or dogma that a good on road 4x4 can't be any good off road and vica versa. It's still an SUV and most reviews have accepted that, the only question being raised is the same one here - can people accept an SUV being a Porsche.....??
I have no problem, but that's been established some time ago....
Respectfully yours
No manual gearbox - hardly surprising considering the combination of vehicle weight and engine torque/power - the six speed tiptronic gets good reviews in most press in manual mode, less favoured responses when left in auto mode. The question is do you really want to stir a stick in an SUV?
Brakes - every review I've read raves about the stopping power despite of the vehicles weight - seems to me you should be raising the Red colour of the brakes as a prime example of how well Porsche can configure discs.....
Weight - it's an SUV so I'm hardly surprised it's lardy - Audi's aluminum take on the sector will no doubt be lighter, but the main competitor to the Cayenne is the RR - hardly a featherweight.
Same as the VW - the chassis, part of the shell and many parts may be the same, but you are gloriously ignoring the fact that the Touareg and Cayenne have been developed seperately with limited sharing of information. So the VW handles more like a Landcruiser and the Cayenne outpoints the X5 in every handling department - something to do with power split ratio's, centre differential programming more akin to Mitsubishi Evo Rally cars etc etc...
As for the shipping from VW to Leipzig, where do you think the 996 frame come from..... BMW and it does alright considering in my book....
Magazine reviews - the vast majority agree that it's going to be the daddy of SUV's, seemingly defying the theory or dogma that a good on road 4x4 can't be any good off road and vica versa. It's still an SUV and most reviews have accepted that, the only question being raised is the same one here - can people accept an SUV being a Porsche.....??
I have no problem, but that's been established some time ago....
Respectfully yours
12-17-2002, 04:58 PM
#7
Race Director
An experience Porsche racer told me the key to good handling is to limit weight transfer..
How do you do this?
Lower, Lighter, Wider...
Hmm lets see does the Cayenne follow these principles???
How do you do this?
Lower, Lighter, Wider...
Hmm lets see does the Cayenne follow these principles???
Trending Topics
12-17-2002, 05:24 PM
#8
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No -- this would make it a CAR designed for use on the road and not off. As opposed to the mission the Cayenne was designed for -- to be an extremely capable off-road car that also performed well on the road. The Cayenne is the best performing SUV on the road - period. It is also very capable off-road. Mission accomplished I think.
12-17-2002, 06:21 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Christian,
With all due respect, everything in your response furthers my point, which I think you may still be missing.
BTW, my problem with the red calipers on the Turbo is that red calipers used to mean bigger and better -- different -- than the black calipers on the standard model. On the Cayenne, the red ones are the same as the black ones -- only the paint is different. "Big Reds" USED to mean something.
With all due respect, everything in your response furthers my point, which I think you may still be missing.
BTW, my problem with the red calipers on the Turbo is that red calipers used to mean bigger and better -- different -- than the black calipers on the standard model. On the Cayenne, the red ones are the same as the black ones -- only the paint is different. "Big Reds" USED to mean something.
12-17-2002, 06:32 PM
#10
Nordschleife Master
[quote]Originally posted by Speedraser:
<strong>
BTW, my problem with the red calipers on the Turbo is that red calipers used to mean bigger and better -- different -- than the black calipers on the standard model. On the Cayenne, the red ones are the same as the black ones -- only the paint is different. "Big Reds" USED to mean something.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The BIG BLACK brakes on the 928GTS are the same size as the BIG RED brakes on the 993TT...
<strong>
BTW, my problem with the red calipers on the Turbo is that red calipers used to mean bigger and better -- different -- than the black calipers on the standard model. On the Cayenne, the red ones are the same as the black ones -- only the paint is different. "Big Reds" USED to mean something.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The BIG BLACK brakes on the 928GTS are the same size as the BIG RED brakes on the 993TT...
12-18-2002, 02:21 AM
#12
20 years ago, when you said you had a porsche, people looked at you with envy. (the porsche mystique).
10 years ago when you said you had a porsche, people looked at you with envy. (the porsche mystique)
Today when you say you have a porsche, people say cool (still a little bit of the porsche mystique left)
In the future, when you say you have a porsche, people will reply : oh, those trucks? I got one of those, too. ( the porshe mistake ?)
10 years ago when you said you had a porsche, people looked at you with envy. (the porsche mystique)
Today when you say you have a porsche, people say cool (still a little bit of the porsche mystique left)
In the future, when you say you have a porsche, people will reply : oh, those trucks? I got one of those, too. ( the porshe mistake ?)
12-18-2002, 11:29 AM
#14
3rd Gear
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: indy
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by Kevin E Davis:
<strong>20 years ago, Porsche enthusiasts didn't care what people said about them. Now, it seems that is what many owners care most about. Their mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll second that
<strong>20 years ago, Porsche enthusiasts didn't care what people said about them. Now, it seems that is what many owners care most about. Their mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll second that
12-18-2002, 11:33 AM
#15
Addict
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Rennlist
Lifetime Member
Speedraser, believe it or not, I think I did get your point - it's just that I fundementally disagree with it - in an entirely agreeable manner if you get my drift..... 
Perhaps the various different howls of anguish are best addressed in a new thread - to allow everything to remain on-topic so to speak.... My views on The Porsche Canton will follow.....
Perhaps the various different howls of anguish are best addressed in a new thread - to allow everything to remain on-topic so to speak.... My views on The Porsche Canton will follow.....