So after seeing every other SUV made - this is Porsche's answer?
04-21-2002, 02:16 PM
#31
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mpm,
Interesting article on the Blackwood. In my heart, I do believe that the Cayenne will fare somewhat better, because it is a fully enclosed, wagon-like SUV that will appeal (and is being marketed to) soccer moms. I'm just not sure that Porsche will be able to achieve the 25,000 annual sales figure.
I'm even less sure that legions of traditional, mostly male, Porsche customers will buy one. It's going to be an interesting business/marketing exercise to watch.
Interesting article on the Blackwood. In my heart, I do believe that the Cayenne will fare somewhat better, because it is a fully enclosed, wagon-like SUV that will appeal (and is being marketed to) soccer moms. I'm just not sure that Porsche will be able to achieve the 25,000 annual sales figure.
I'm even less sure that legions of traditional, mostly male, Porsche customers will buy one. It's going to be an interesting business/marketing exercise to watch.
04-21-2002, 02:34 PM
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Yeah Anir, I too really don't want to see Porsche get burnt over this, but man it's so ugly and hughly expensive, what were those bone heads thinking? Clearly they knew the risk of failure - but this could be massive in scale. It could dwarf the BMW/Rover debacle.
Especially seeing the market they are trying to capture. If they think it will cross over from Porsche loyalist, who want to match their P-car with a Pepper-pot, to the mass soccer mom market, they are in for a big surprise.
The $40-50,000 high end soccer mom SUV market is dead. Navigators, Suburbans, and even Range Rovers, MLs and X5s (the upper-end market that the Pepper-pot squares off against) are sitting around everywhere and their resale values are plummeting. Just how many Porsche owners is Freaky Freddy counting on?
Can't wait for his next B-school speech...
Especially seeing the market they are trying to capture. If they think it will cross over from Porsche loyalist, who want to match their P-car with a Pepper-pot, to the mass soccer mom market, they are in for a big surprise.
The $40-50,000 high end soccer mom SUV market is dead. Navigators, Suburbans, and even Range Rovers, MLs and X5s (the upper-end market that the Pepper-pot squares off against) are sitting around everywhere and their resale values are plummeting. Just how many Porsche owners is Freaky Freddy counting on?
Can't wait for his next B-school speech...
04-21-2002, 02:52 PM
#33
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MPM
I'm not so sure the statements about the SUV market being dead are accurate.
I just checked the Automotive News (the automotive trade industry publication) website. Their US production figures (a downloadable pdf for US prod only on the right side of the page)
They show Jeep Gc, M-class, Explorer, Rendezvous, Escalade, Blazer, Suburban, Tahoe, Xterra are up.
Are Tundra and Sequoia SUVs? They're up too.
Maybe they are overbuilt, but it looks as if my Jeep dealer's lot turns over fairly rapidly.
Mike
I'm not so sure the statements about the SUV market being dead are accurate.
I just checked the Automotive News (the automotive trade industry publication) website. Their US production figures (a downloadable pdf for US prod only on the right side of the page)
They show Jeep Gc, M-class, Explorer, Rendezvous, Escalade, Blazer, Suburban, Tahoe, Xterra are up.
Are Tundra and Sequoia SUVs? They're up too.
Maybe they are overbuilt, but it looks as if my Jeep dealer's lot turns over fairly rapidly.
Mike
04-21-2002, 03:10 PM
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Hmmm...I'd call your list the entery to mid-range group of SUV (even the entry ML320), but your right "dead" is a dramatic overstatement - as is most of my un-ending <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> ranting on this subject. I'm just so miffed over the decisions being made by the brand I've cherished since childhood...
Do you know if those are production stats or sales (and sales to dealers is different then dealer sales)? An old trick is to "sell" inventory to dealers, and make it their problem. That's what some senior sales mgmt people at Clair were bitching about while we were talking about the fate of Porsche due to the Pepper-pot.
The low end C will be what, $55,000+? I think that puts it way out of the market for most SUV shoppers and the NA target is 12,500 units, and 12,500 in Europe. Do people in Europe really want SUVs? We've gone to Europe for a week or two every year for the last 5 or so, and I only see estates - as far a utlity haulers go.
I really do hope I'm wrong about its sales success, but don't be surprised to see the criticism continue...
Do you know if those are production stats or sales (and sales to dealers is different then dealer sales)? An old trick is to "sell" inventory to dealers, and make it their problem. That's what some senior sales mgmt people at Clair were bitching about while we were talking about the fate of Porsche due to the Pepper-pot.
The low end C will be what, $55,000+? I think that puts it way out of the market for most SUV shoppers and the NA target is 12,500 units, and 12,500 in Europe. Do people in Europe really want SUVs? We've gone to Europe for a week or two every year for the last 5 or so, and I only see estates - as far a utlity haulers go.
I really do hope I'm wrong about its sales success, but don't be surprised to see the criticism continue...
04-21-2002, 03:40 PM
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They are North American production numbers, I don't know if they represent dealer sales - an entirely different and ultimately more important #.
You're right these are the more mid level trucks.
I missed the X-5 numbers the first time. They are up 35% vs year ago.
Like you I'm concerned about the future of the cars I love.
I do think the issues they face are real, and we are best off if PAG is financially healthy and independent.
Obviously I don't mind SUVs, I've got a Jeep GC with over 100,000 mi. But I would never consider one to replace my 993s.
I also don't think I would spend 60,000+ on an SUV.
So I'm in the target, but not a prospect.
I'd love to sit in on some of the research groups they've done in the last few years. In fact, I was solicited for some a couple of times, but have been bounced when they learn my occupation.
You're right these are the more mid level trucks.
I missed the X-5 numbers the first time. They are up 35% vs year ago.
Like you I'm concerned about the future of the cars I love.
I do think the issues they face are real, and we are best off if PAG is financially healthy and independent.
Obviously I don't mind SUVs, I've got a Jeep GC with over 100,000 mi. But I would never consider one to replace my 993s.
I also don't think I would spend 60,000+ on an SUV.
So I'm in the target, but not a prospect.
I'd love to sit in on some of the research groups they've done in the last few years. In fact, I was solicited for some a couple of times, but have been bounced when they learn my occupation.
04-21-2002, 03:50 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Mike in Chi:
<strong>In fact, I was solicited for them a couple of times, but have been bounced when they learn my occupation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mike,
That's funny! In an analagous situation, you'll never find a doc on a jury panel, because we get bounced, as well. Overly analytical, a scientist's demanding of hard data to support claims, and too much capacity for independent thought.
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
<strong>In fact, I was solicited for them a couple of times, but have been bounced when they learn my occupation.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mike,
That's funny! In an analagous situation, you'll never find a doc on a jury panel, because we get bounced, as well. Overly analytical, a scientist's demanding of hard data to support claims, and too much capacity for independent thought.
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
04-21-2002, 03:56 PM
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Hi Doc
"Overly analytical, a scientist's demanding of hard data to support claims, and too much capacity for independent thought."
I wasn't bounced for any reason as good as those -- I was bounced because I'm in advertising.
"Overly analytical, a scientist's demanding of hard data to support claims, and too much capacity for independent thought."
I wasn't bounced for any reason as good as those -- I was bounced because I'm in advertising.
04-21-2002, 04:54 PM
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I did one research group for Audi (I think). They wanted to know about driving habits, brand loyality, and how the service experience effects the brand. Gave me a brand spankin' new Ben for my time...
Mike, what was that website for production?
Mike, what was that website for production?
04-21-2002, 06:58 PM
#39
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mpm
<a href="http://www.autonews.com/" target="_blank">http://www.autonews.com/</a>
on the right hand side about halfway down is a box for North american car and truck production.
Download the pdf file there.
It has columns that compare '01 to '02 production.
I can e-mail you the file if you can't get it.
(Automotive News is a trade publication that's kind of the car industry's bible.)
Mike
<a href="http://www.autonews.com/" target="_blank">http://www.autonews.com/</a>
on the right hand side about halfway down is a box for North american car and truck production.
Download the pdf file there.
It has columns that compare '01 to '02 production.
I can e-mail you the file if you can't get it.
(Automotive News is a trade publication that's kind of the car industry's bible.)
Mike
