[quote]Originally posted by mpm '95 C4:
<strong>They won't race it...(or now the GT for goodness sake )

It has limited cargo "utility"...

It's bloated...

It's ugly...

It's expensive...

It's way too late to market...

And it's ugly (bares repeating)...

Other then that, Porsche should get a lot of respect for building the Pepper-fish </strong><hr></blockquote>


You forgot the most important one: It's not a sportscar! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

 

My soon to be father in law is a long time Porsche guy. One of his P-cars is his 1964 356 SC, of which he is the original owner. He also has a 914-6, a 911, and a 928. He pointed out to me that 356 owners scoffed at the 911 in 1965 and felt it was not a real Porsche.

Pepperfish! I like that one. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

 

you guys can complain about the SUV, but don't go complaining about that engine...


finally a v8tt....think of the things we could be doing with that in the back of our 911s....

i don't like the vehicle, but i damn well want that engine....

'no replacement for displacement'
'only replacement for displacement is technology'

what if we had both???well now we can....a 4.5 litre v8 twin turbo

now that's what i'm talking about

 

I have a 996 C4S currently. It's great, but a bit impractical as an only car. I called my dealer and asked about the Cayenne. They told me that they already have over 50 deposits (more than a years supply) for them so far (the regular one, that is. I wanted a Turbo, and he couldn't even quote a timeframe).

I think there is a chance it might sell ok based on this... You can argue that these are just deposits, but I reckon most people would not shell out 5k non-refundable if they didn't have some intention of getting the vehicle.

Now I personally don't think that my 996 is in any way diluted or less of a Porsche because they are now making an SUV. I actually like the idea of a 4WD Porsche that will seat 4 adults.

M3 owners don't think the fact that BMW makes the X5 as well as the M3 makes it an inferior car do they? Corvette owners don't bitch that their car comes from the same company that makes the Cavalier. (I might though if I owned one...)

You might argue that the two companies I mentioned are bigger and have more resources, so those 2 cars have development done anyway. It's one viewpoint, but another is that I don't care whether they make an SUV, a tractor or a boat. A 911 is STILL a 911 and I'd still want one.

If the Cayenne makes money, Porsche will go into developing something else. At some point they will bring out a new 911. Or a replacement.

If it doesn't sell, then they will go broke, and I'll have one of the last 911s. Either way, a no-lose situation for me...

 

[quote]Originally posted by Alan A:
<strong>...M3 owners don't think the fact that BMW makes the X5 as well as the M3 makes it an inferior car do they? Corvette owners don't bitch that their car comes from the same company that makes the Cavalier...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Those companies never were or never will be pure sportscar companies.

Porsche was, but after C, it won't be anymore.

Get the point?

 

Actually, no I don't [quote] get the point.<hr></blockquote>

Lamborghini started off as a tractor maker.
Does that mean that their cars are now indelibly associated with tractors. Are they less valuable or desirable because of this fact?

Bugatti started out making aircraft engines. The cars fly, but along the ground only.

Porsche only makes sportscars - I'm not sure even that a 924 counts as a sportscar. It's just a rebadged Audi...

If you want to look at it another way, especially since you seem to set stock on racing history, there are really only only 4 car manufacturers founded on racing - Maserati, Ferrari, Lotus, and McLaren. Porsche started out making a sportscar - one that I still drool over when I see it - that it then raced.

I STILL don't see why you care that it is making something else other than a sportscar.

PEOPLE WILL STILL WANT PORSCHES REGARDLESS.

I personally think it's more of a joke that they are selling watches, clothing and bicycles. (A person wearing a porsche baseball cap is obviously trying to compensate for something). No-one seems to care about that though.

At least the Cayenne is a motor vehicle. It appears (at least from the information out so far, and for it's class) that it will be a good one too.

SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?

btw: this is in no way a personal attack. I genuinely don't understand why you care so strongly. It's just a car...

 

"...I STILL don't see why you care that it is making something else other than a sportscar..."

Because that's why Porsche is (soon, read: was) something different. It didin't make sedans, trucks etc.
Every Porsche built was a sportscar, and that's what made it different from Chevy, Dodge etc.

"...PEOPLE WILL STILL WANT PORSCHES REGARDLESS..."

That's for sure, that's why they're making Cayenne.
There are plenty of People (with money) who only want to drive Porsche because there is a badge on the hood. These people would be driving happily Honda Civic's w/ the Porsche badge & hefty price. They don't care/know what good handling is, why ignition key is on left, what's so great about going over 160 and hearing that wonderful flat six 'singing' behind you etc.
Only thing they care is that name. They're cruising around 20 mph and that's it for them.
Irony is that they want to drive Porsche because of that name, mystic etc. that has come from Porsche being true sportscar company, winning LeMans etc.
Now, making this change (to a wrong direction), that mystic, name that they want to shof off to their buddies, might not be like that in future. It soon might be just another car company.

"...SO WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?..."

I just said it.

"...btw: this is in no way a personal attack. I genuinely don't understand why you care so strongly..."

Of course not, this isn't either.

"...It's just a car... "

To many people, I'm sure, it's just an transportation to go from A to B & to show it off, but for me, it's not just a car. 9and that's why this bothers me.

 

Well put Alan A. I always did want a McLaren

 

I always liked TVRs myself. No racing heritage as such, but still great cars.

[quote]Now, making this change (to a wrong direction), that mystic, name that they want to shof off to their buddies, might not be like that in future. It soon might be just another car company.
<hr></blockquote>

Ahh I see, you are saying that it is a good thing the Cayenne is being built as the sporty cars won't be driven by poseurs, but by people who appreciate cars.

I bet you cried when a water-cooled 911 came out. It wasn't a bad thing in the end... 15000 mile service intervals and a 4 year warranty are not so bad. It doesn't detract in any way from the car.

Maybe the Cayenne will do something similar. If not, at least they have a half decent engine for a REAL car.

 

To all:

"...It's year 1979, rumours have been going around that Porsche will start building a Grand tourer (928) along side their loved 911, but instead, they launch a brand new Porsche station vagon at Chicago auto show!
With wooden sides, four doors and rear hatch it's an engineering marvel (they say)!
At the presentation, Porsche also states that they will cut racing for at least four, five years, to be announced in later future if they will go back racing at all.

New model is called Porsche Tabasco.

Now, finally every Porsche lover can take their crocery trips with Porsche. It has lots of gargo room, electric seats, A/C, 3 speed automatic tranny (stick is not an option) and best of all, two (2) cupholders for each passenger!

Now this is a family car that every Porsche lover is looking for their family needs says Porsche! Porsche people have not been too happy about this though, since they think Porsche should only be making sportcars and continue racing, not stationg vagons! Porsche management says this will 'save' Porsche and help it in a long run, further discussions about building a pick-up truck have been..."

Fast forward to the year 2002, where do you 'see' Porsche at and how does Porsche's current line up look like? Does Porsche still have 911? Does thay have sportscar at all? Is there a Porsche?

 

[quote]Originally posted by Alan A:
[QB]...I bet you cried when a water-cooled 911 came out. It wasn't a bad thing in the end... 15000 mile service intervals and a 4 year warranty are not so bad. It doesn't detract in any way from the car...QB]<hr></blockquote>

No I didn't.

I might not be the biggest fan of the 996 and to my taste it's a bit too much of a GT with all it's amenities etc. but for heavens sake, it's a sportscar!

 

[quote]Originally posted by Curt N:
<strong>

You're absolutely right on that one... The day they started rolling Porsches off the line with Tiptronic and cupholders was a sad day indeed... It pains me to see what was one a no nonsense pure race car now plauged with useless extra weight and "soft" suspensions to make that trip to the grocery store more comfy.... </strong><hr></blockquote>

Have to disagree with you here Curt, on the Tiptronic side at least. I may be completely wrong here, but wasn't the Tiptronic program a direct successor to the work done with the PDK semi-automatic gearbox developed from '85 onwards in the 956/962??

Good enough for Hans-Joachim Stuck in the eighties and a Nurburgring 1000km winner known to me who's getting his 996TT Tiptronic in September, then it's good enough for me.......

 

924 not a sportscar?

Alan A - have you driven a 924 or 924s?

What is that opinion based on?

I respect people's opinions, but expect people to back those opinions up...

Paul

 

Paul, the 924 is a sporty car - it was intended as a joke about the fact that it was assembled in the Audi factory, hence the
I did have the 'pleasure' of driving one once a few years ago - in the wet; scared the crap out of myself...

I'd rather have a either a 356 + another car (not practical in NYC) or a 996 though to be honest.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Christian Stewart:
<strong>

Have to disagree with you here Curt, on the Tiptronic side at least. I may be completely wrong here, but wasn't the Tiptronic program a direct successor to the work done with the PDK semi-automatic gearbox developed from '85 onwards in the 956/962??

Good enough for Hans-Joachim Stuck in the eighties and a Nurburgring 1000km winner known to me who's getting his 996TT Tiptronic in September, then it's good enough for me.......</strong><hr></blockquote>

Point taken, but Tiptronic is (for now, perhaps not after some future technological gain,) heavier and slower (and IMO, less fun!) than a manual transmission.... Not exactly a plus in my books.