mpm '95 C4

Give me a break...

He states, "It is the clearly stated policy of the PCA to welcome Cayenne owners unreservedly." He goes on the make it seem like Porsche created the whole SUV concept, or at least has been close to it in spirit. ANd further that it is almost natural that this is where Porsche should expand its product line.

Please...

Attention Micheal Cotton and everyone else back in Stutgart (and especially Fred Schwab at PCNA), the only reason you built this thing is to get a piece of this SUV market. Nothing wrong with making money. We need you to make money.

But guess what - the market is dead. Nobody is buying SUVs. You've taken your eye off the ball, and shifted Porsche brand into the also-ran catagory. Dr. Ferry is rolling over in his grave. And this hugh investment is DOA. Thanks a lot.

You could have spent those hard earned Euros on a sports sedan that will always find a market. Or, God help us, on a racing program that we could all be proud of. It's great that we ruled the GT3 class (untill BMW pulled a Porsche move and stuffed a V8 into the M3). But were else is Porsche represented - except by the privateers?

Sorry Micheal Cotton...

The Cayanne has to earn its stripes, just as the 996 has to, and don't be surprised when this SUV experiment goes down in flames. I only hope all the marketing geniuses don't take the company down with them.

ked

Is there any reason that the Porsche Club of America should be UNwelcoming toward first time member-enthusiasts who arrive via the Cayenne?

mpm '95 C4

That's partly my point. But just because it's a Porsche doesn't mean it won't face a lot of scrutiny.

It comes across as a plea, or worse a demand. Porsche bet the farm on this sport-truck, I hope it doesn't bring the marque to its knees.

DonW-Cape Cod

Regardless of what anyone says I believe Porsche will amortize their portion of this platform with a 4 passanger sports sedan. It has to happen

Adrian

Dear Don,
I often laugh at the comments like "Ferry" will be rolling in his grave. Quite the contrary. If you read about the guy he wanted to be a major player in the automotive business as a manufacturer of all classes of autos. If anyone visits Germany highly recommend a visit to various Technical Museums around the place. Many of Porsches test vehicles and plans are on display. Sports cars was how he got started, simply because of circumstance. Ferry Porsche initiated the SUV in partnership with Mercedes way back in the early 90s. This is all on the public record. Wherever he is now and regardless of what we might think or do think, I am sure he has a great big smile on his face. Remember he was very proud of his 928 station wagon.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Adrian

Forgot to mention. Porsche has asked ALL CLUBS around the world to accept Pepper Pot owners into their ranks.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

Mike in CA

With all due respect, I gotta say that I'm glad you aren't making the marketing decisions at Porsche For Porsche to build a sports sedan, in competition with virtually every other premium car manufacturer on the planet would be a huge mistake. What could they offer in the way of performance in a sports sedan that BMW or Mercedes hasn't offered already?

The reason that the Cayenne will succeed, on the other hand, is that Porsche will be able to differentiate it from all the other SUV's. With the possible (and I'm being generous here)exception of BMW, what other manufacturer offers a truly performance oriented SUV with exceptional brakes, handling and overall vehicle dynamics that rival a sports car? As a Porsche owner, who appreciates those qualities and needs a more versatile vehicle than your sports car, wouldn't such an SUV interest you? That is the target Porsche is aiming for, and if they come anywhere close to hitting it they will carve out a niche in the SUV market for themselves, make lots of money, and fund those racing programs that we all want to see them involved with!!

Mike

DonW-Cape Cod

Porsche will carry 4 people in a non-suv street vehicle within a decade!

Kaz

I don't care what kind of handling this new Porsche SUV is supposed to have, drivers will get in that thing, TRY to drive it like a 996 and subsequently roll them. I'd rather Porsche had made their SUV to rival the off road prowess of a Range Rover, LandCruiser or even a Humvee.

There is just no point to these high powered SUV's no matter who makes them or what kind of "car like" handling the builders claim to have engineered into them. They are fast, their center of gravity is high, and they're being sold to the same knuckleheads who couldn't keep their M3's,M5's, 996's, Corvette's on the pavement. I guess these SUV's will serve the purpose of thinning the gene pool which now that I think about it a bit more isn't really a bad thing.

K

mpm '95 C4

I'm with Kaz...

CA Mike - if the sports sedan market is saturated what do you call the SUV market? Not only is it saturated it's dead. And if they follow BMW's X5 and not build any real cargo room (read: dogs) it will be the ultimate folley.

Adrian - Dr. Ferry may be smiling, I just hope this decision doesn't wipe it off his - 'er 'um face. If he liked the 928 wagon, how about a wagon instead? That would have given us the 4 door, added space for the dogs, kept it low to the ground (so it really handles like a Porsche), and hit the market in its sweet spot.

I don't have to tell a European (do the Swiss consider themselves European )how accepted estates are over there. They are growing by leaps and bounds here. And instead of spending extra Euros on designing an entire new platform with VAG - they could have quickened their time to market using a already acceptable VAG avant platform.

The decision to build the SUV has ego written all over it, and I suspect Fred Schwab had a big roll in the sales job. I really hope it's successful - but I fear it's going to kill the firm I cherished for 40+ years.

Kaz

MPM, I think Porsche is about to learn the true meaning of the phrase, "A day late and a dollar short". I'm curious to see who will purchase this new SUV.

You know what Porsche should do with this new SUV? They should immidiately suit it up and enter it in the Paris-Dakar rally for 2003. Just to salvage something since they sure aren't racing anything else.

I also really hope this twin turboed V8 engine will fit in my 88S4. I plan to stake out the Porsche dealership in Santa Monica for hapless SUV buyers. I will then follow him/her into the Malibu Canyons and wait for the ensuing wreck. (Could wait for the DUI's on Sunset for that matter) I will then follow the wrecker to whatever yard he's towing that baby and be there to pick up my new TT V8 engine at auction.

K

Adrian

Dear mpm,
I am actually Australian. Do the Swiss consider themselves European. Jein, Ja und Nein but that is another story.
Did you know that it was Swiss money that got Ferry and Louise started. Without this money Porsche as we know it would never have happened. It was a Swiss sports car dealer that had enough faith in Ferry and Louise to loan them 50,000CHF which was a lot of money in those days.
Why did Porsche go with a SUV. It was what Ferry wanted. He was alive and involved in all of this. The SUV concept was done and dusted before he died. The SUV is aimed 100% at the USA. Nowhere else. However inthe end it maybe Europe that saves the project. SUV sales are rising across Europe.
Porsche did build a number of prototypes. I have seen data on the Minivan and a few other projects.
I believe Porsche will be absorbed, purchased within the next 10 years by one of the big boys.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: The original plan had Porsche and Mercedes building all their SUVs in the USA. This got scrapped when the deal fell through. Leipzig was purely political.

Kaz

Adrian,

We Americans can be just so collectively stupid sometimes, ok, many times. Talk to any American SUV owner and he/she thinks SUV's are built for their safety and well being, not because they're the only idiots on the planet who will drive them down the highway at a 110mph.

I was in Munich Germany three weeks ago and I can count on one hand the number of X5 BMW's I saw. Now Munich is just one small piece of Europe but I don't see Europeans in general losing their minds and running out to buy inefficient SUV's. Not with all the tiny, space saving, fuel efficient cars I saw running around.

K

Mike in CA

Kaz-"I don't care what kind of handling this new Porsche SUV is supposed to have, drivers will get in that thing, TRY to drive it like a 996 and subsequently roll them."

Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up! It's amazing that people have such strong opinions about a vehicle they've never even seen much less driven. Maybe other drivers aren't quite as stupid as you give them credit for being. Are X5's rolling over all over the place because they are BMW's and people get them confused with M5's? For myself,I'm willing to wait for the finished product before I pass judgement.

mpm- "CA Mike - if the sports sedan market is saturated what do you call the SUV market?"

The choices for good-handling performance oriented sports sedans are pretty well covered by other manufacturers. The choices for good-handling performance oriented SUV's are pretty much NON-EXISTENT. As I posted previously, IF Porsche can hit that target with their SUV, there will be a demand for them.

Mike

Mike in CA

Kaz,

I appreciate your point of view, but I still disagree with some of it . I find it interesting that many people who argue against the Porsche SUV use the same reasoning that you did. For example, you said "the last thing they or anyone else needs is another high powered, high center of gravitied vehicle" and "it's bad enough with what the population is driving now, high powered sedans, and rice rockets."

As far as the high powered part is concerned, Porsche is going to offer 3 versions of the Cayenne, as I understand it, and only the 450 hp twin turbo V8 is going to be outside the norm for SUV's. My bet is that you won't find too many folks in the general population who will be plunking down $75k+ for this vehicle, which will likely represent a small percentage of the Cayenne's that are sold. It will find it's
way into the hands of enthusiasts who will have a better handle on it's capabilities. The argument that "we don't need" another high powered vehicle is kind of strange coming from a Porsche board. We don't really "need" 300+hp sports cars either, do we? Dodge makes the 500+ hp Viper that is a real beast on the street and is downright dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing, low center of gravity notwithstanding. Yet when is the last time you heard a car enthusiast say that we don't "need" cars like the Viper? Since when did Porsche owners become spokespersons for the safety lobby?

I also find the comment about it being "bad enough with what the population is driving now" interesting. You realize of course, that most people out there consider US to be the ones who are irresonsible with our high powered sports cars zooming in and out of traffic. It's ironic that THEY think that WE are the problem and WE think that THEY are the problem.

Personally, I think it's great that manufacturers continue to push the envelope with better performance, better safety, better whatever and make it available to everyone. In a free market that is the reward and you have to accept the risks. Otherwise you start setting limits for performance, make all cars the same, restrict who drives what, and spell the beginning of the end for enthusiast vehicles.

I'll make this point one more time. It may be fun to engage in these discussions, but it is ILLOGICAL to reach conclusions based on incomplete information. Why do we keep repeating this stuff about unstable high center-of-gravity, careening-out-of-control SUV's when we don't know if it will even apply to the Cayenne. In fact, if you take everything you know about Porsche, it would appear far more likely that it WILL NOT apply. YOU may not need a vehicle that can carry kids, go to the snow, haul a few things and is fun to drive, but that doesn't mean no one does. The Cayenne may not match the 996 (almost nothing else does) but if it outhandles and outbrakes 90% of the vehicles out there, has great power, is fun to drive, offeres good utility, and has room for more of your stuff (including the dog)if that is required, why on earth wouldn't you want one if you were looking for that type of vehicle? Why wouldn't ANYONE want one who can afford the price of admission?
Just my $.02

Mike