LVDell

I'd have to 100% disagree with your diagnosis Brad. No offense, and I know your have your tech stuff down but the hesitation is something that is NOT a learned dme program. If it is, then that is one seriously assinine feature. But coming to a stop at a stop sign and realizing there is a clearning the brake is released and the gas is mashed to have nothing happen other than a second or two (which seems like eternity) of ZERO acceleration with cars approaching rather fast. Not safe at all and like I said, dont' agree for a second that is a drivers learned issue with the dme.

Don't forget, I used a smiley

mudman2

My 2c

Even after a long time since adaption reset, I can hit my favorite 90 degree turn with "no" problem.

On approach at 50, in good time kick down to 3rd and let engine braking do its stuff. Near the apex kick down to 2nd make the turn and floor it. NO hesitation. oh and never touch the brake.

OK now do that with the wife in the other seat !

Make sure you have a prenup.

bancu

It's not:
- drive-by-wire
- PSM
- because it's an automatic transmission
- left foot braking
- because it's a Japanese transmission
- lag on the Turbo

Those are the BS answers that I've had some Porsche dealers and PCNA try on me. My all time favorite is from a SA who said it it was a safety feature 'if they gave you all the power you'd lose control'.

Neither a dealer or PCNA tossed the Japanese one at me but I've seen it on the forum and its ethnic slamming irritates me. Any slamming should be aimed at the 'we don't make mistakes' designing, or perhaps integrating in this case, hard headed Porsche folks.

I've had several vehicles with automatics and drive-by-wire and none of them exhibit this behavior. If you have access to a drive-by-wire) Mercedes (even an SUV) just put the Porsche tech in it and show them what the relationship between throttle application and acceleration should be. If you really want to have fun put him (or her for that matter) in an AMG version to really get the point across.

99firehawk is correct about checking the TCM (starting in 1st vs. 2nd with PSM off) on the 2003 and 2004ish Cayennes but I'm to the point that I don’t buy that it's totally related to the learned lazy shifting behavior from how we have to drive around town. I do agree that TCM reset seems to make it better but I don't see that as a solution since I don't know how to do that 'at home'.

This is a design issue that is a safety concern which Porsche and PCNA won't acknowledge. That's why I (and others) have filed complaints with the NHTSA. If you're in the US and experience this issue and you really need to file a NHTSA claim. That gets it documented outside of PCNA's world which has got to count for something when we get in an accident because of this behavior.

I think the issue is worse for people that do a lot of in town driving and are smooth with the throttle. You remember that basic 'smooth is 90% of fast' car control stuff right? Hmmm...I wonder why that would happen with people that are interested in a Porsche even if it is an SUV.

How weaselly is Porsche on this front? Try this for the 'situation' title of the latest TSB that applies to this issue:
'Driver's subjective opinion: "Engine slow to respond."'

I just love that 'subjective opinion' dig.

The attempted fix to the DME programming was introduced as of April 3, 2006. The interesting part of the programming update, that seems to apply to the situation around town, is "When the brake pedal is released, the engine torque builds up faster". Did you catch that? Brake pedal release and faster torque build up.

I'm not saying that things are completely fixed but this DME update has made a difference in my around town driving. Even after several weeks. It's most noticeable in stop-and-go driving especially when I'm on-and-off the brake and making a turn coming out of a stoplight line. There's that "brake pedal is released, the engine torque builds up faster" from the TSB.

It's not just the faster building of torque that appears to be better the latest DME update. The CT seems to hold the torque better (if that makes sense) and it also holds the gears longer even without jabbing acceleration pedal application.

bancu

This makes sense if their build date before the '06 date I noted above.

Likemystoppie?

This isn't about going from 50mph entering a corner; this is about heading down the road, braking to stop to let on coming traffic pass, and then turning into a parking lot or other road, when you let off of the brake, and press accelorator- ZIP happens for, like stated above seems like forever.


update**** The techs uploaded the new software and the the computer took it. The only thing the software upload does is change the timing of lifting the brake off and then accelerating.

We'll see how this pans out.

mudman2

Perhaps you missed the irony in my comment

You are not unique, I have called the "we hate customer" desk many times having missed death by inches.

Likemystoppie?

I think I'm missing more then your irony here.

bancu

Did the Techs think that the vehicle already had the latest update based on a version check? I'm asking because that's what I was told when I took mine in. I had to push for them to flash it and _see_ that it actually took as you described.

The off 'brake to torque' delay is all it is documented to do. I find that the update also helps with more aggressive shift pattern selection under normal/smooth accelerator application.

As I put it to Porsche several years ago, if I was the first one at a light when it turns green I could power through a turn acceptably. When I was towards the middle or back of the line it would up shift too soon and leave me hanging in the third gear dead zone by the time I made the turn.

The update also seems to help a _little_ (and it's so little that it could be in my mind) with down shifting from 3rd when you're making turns at residential speeds. They still haven't seemed to get it into their heads that dumping more gas or boost in 3rd gear doesn't cut it coming out of a turn or merging. It would help things greatly if they'd program it to drop to 2nd as you enter the turn or get the revs up for in town lane changes.

mudman2

From the TSB I think that fix is for a relatively new variation of the problem. I think it only effects 06's and maybe late 05's.

They changed everything on mine including putting in an 05 transmission plus matching modules, quite a noticable change indicating my 04 transmission was hosed but no long term cure to the hesitation.

At least the PSM off button now acts as its supposed to.

After a reset on the EGas Adaption it feels great but within a few days its back to normal.

bancu

Are we thinking about the same TSB?

The one I'm talking about says "Model Year: As of 2003 up to 2006." Looking at the date of introduction it seems to be anything produced April 3, 2006 and prior to a listed VINs for Cayenne, Cayenne S and Cayenne Turbo S.

I don't have a 'new' transmission in my '04 but I do have an updated TCM that activates the 1st gear starts and really aggressive shifting and throttle response with PSM off.

I agree that a e-gas and TCM reset (if the TCM replacement can be called that) makes things much better and also adapts out over time.

The improvement I'm experiencing is in line with the 'brake pedal is released, the engine torque builds faster' description in the TSB and has made a difference for some of the problems I hit with in city driving. The torque is building faster in stop and go traffic and it's using a more aggressive shifting map (holding the gears longer) even with smooth and non jabbing accelerator pedal application.

Things still aren't where I feel they should since it's still pretty dead when I'm in 3rd gear and need to accelerate. I'd also like to see it drop to 2nd at a bit higher RPM to make residential turns livable.

mudman2

Oh I see, they have extended it back, the original did not inlcude earlier years. I think at this point they are just throwing anything at the problem to see if they can shut us up. The safety issue alone is going to cost them millions at some point, we all know it, and have been close.

The problem cannot be fixed, not sure about the 08's, maybe because they have a totally changed electronic infrastructure, Brad have you seen any difference in the 08's ?

I think everyone know that it hits the wrong gear on turns, if they could have fixed it simply i think it would have been done. In the meantime they will keep paying people to keep there mouths shut, at least allegidly.

Similarly, why didn't they give us a switch sequence to reset adaption. That would have shut up 50% of the suckers.

bancu

I didn't realize they changed the effected models date. That could explain why some shops aren't picking up on it as a potential fix.

ltc

mudman2

MadFox

What you laughing at.. don't all drivers use the left foot for the brake and the right foot for the gas... my 97 year old grandmother taught me that method?!?