mamoroso

We need to buy a more practical car as we are expecting our second baby. Our current line up consists in my Carrera and my wifes Beetle Turbo.
The Beetle would go so we need a car for my wife

I am not asking which one of the 3 cars is better for you... Since you could get either of them and went for the Cayenne I was trying to understand what the thought process behind it was.

The S costs $56. We don't care much for all the other options. The Tuareg V8 with our specs is $45. The E-class goes from $55 to $65 depending on the engine (320 V6 or 500 V8).

My wife will drive the car most of the time apart from when we go for long trips (beach, mountains etc).

We haven't driven the Cayenne yet. I was expecting to get blown away by the benz after having driven it back to back from the T-reg.... but I wasn't.

As far as look we think the benz is the best. But it is a bit less "young" than the T-reg. The Cayenne is just something different. I can't quite put my finger on it. I love it in some colors and I hate it in others.

So it would be great if you could take the time and give me the 3 most important reasons why you choose the Cayenne S.

Thanks again for your help.

One last thing... any good discounts on cars in stock? The benz dealer was offering $3k on the cars they had there...

PS
We'll be driving an "S" early next week

bjwebster

Handling
Power
Towing
Low Range a must
Style
Unique
I was in the market for a something sporty, that could tow, drive in nasty snowy conditions, have low range for steep descents, and be unique and neat at the same time. The cayenne really fit the bill for me. It does all of those things, and does them well.
As far as discounts, you can get some good discounts on Cayennes on the lots, and even ordered. I think you could do better than 3k off on a cayenne.

hankypanky

I am in a similar situation as you with a small child and another one on the way. My wife drives a 3 series, while I have an LX 470. We live in Chicago area and want an SUV type vehicle but my wife want something which drive more like a car. She things LX is too high, which it is, compared to other vehicles in its class.

Only thing which is holding me back are all the little electrical and other issues on CS. I hope with 2005 they turn a page on this. May be, I am spoiled because of owning a Lexus. But to me it is not if it is a big issue or small issue, but how many trips to the workshop you have to make. With little kids in the house my wife can hardly make a trip to the restroom let alone a Porsche Dealer. Also with most Porshe dealers having service hour timings like Monday-Friday: 9:00 - 5:00 (Service timings for Porsche Exchange, who claims to be the largest dealer in midwest), I will get stuck with taking time off work to have the car serviced.

For pricing please take a loot at my reply here.
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-955-957-2003-2010/153819-southern-california-dealer.html

skl

I had a previous generation E class wagon 4-matic when our kids were little- the rear facing back seat was nice. They loved riding back there. I really don't think the new Benz's are as good a car as pre-Chrsyler. Ours was a 300E and really was pretty slow. My wife found it didn't have enough power turning out of our driveway onto a busy highway and when the kids got a little bigger we got a A4 advant quattro (which we liked a lot more) and it had a stick which we preferred anyway. We needed a SUV now which could occassional tow and still carry people quickly and comfortably- sold a big pickup which my wife wouldn't drive because it was too big. Decided on the pepper over the T-reg (also a nice vehicle) because I liked the driving dynamics better and it was a little sportier. Being a Porsche driver for 33 years also probably had something to do with it... but comparing a car to a SUV is comparing apples to oranges. Let her drive them over several days on her normal routine and then decide. Luckily our dealers here let me have a demo over a long weekend so we could live it for a while. A trip around the block won't cut it...

cobalt

To be honest, my mother just bought a MB E320 nice car however she has had it for 2 months and it has been in the shop twice. The feedback I am hearing is all the new MB products are having serious problems. Apparently their merger with Chrysler has hurt the quality standard. I will say it is a nice car but like you I am not overly impressed.

I know 2 people with Tuareg's. Both have had serious transmission issues one is up for possible lemon law buy back. Otherwise they love the car.

I don't know about the shop by you but the one by me will pick up and drop off my CT for service repairs. I only live about 10 miles from the shop so it is not a problem for them. Their service hours are from 7:30 till 5:00 Saturdays available. Lowner cars are available.

I did my research and I think the design/construction of the Cayenne/Tuareg is by far safer than the MB and many other cars in general. The Porsche offers better air bag placement and far superior fit and finish over the Tuareg. I think you will find you will want the air suspension and comfort options. I believe the factory resolved most of the issues on cars built after 8/03. You can get a very good deal on an 04 left over if you are looking to save.

Although very pricy the Turbo is an outstanding auto. In my opinion one of the best all around vehicles ever designed. (I never thought I would here myself say that, since I was dead set against it from its inception) There is a significant difference between the S and the Turbo. Many features are not available on the S that come standard on the Turbo. My wife wanted an Audi A8 (very nice car) she had no interest in the Cayenne. We drove The Cayenne several times and she fell in love with it. The ride on both are comparable and the CT handles brakes and accelerates much better. I have been trying to get my wife to drive a Porsche for years, now I am going to have a hard time getting seat time in it she likes it that much.

I would try test driving the Cayenne several times. If you can take one out without a salesman even better. My first impression was not great but each time I get in the car I find I like it more and more. It realy grows on you. There is adeqaute room for the car seats and plenty of space for strollers, diaper bags etc. The low stance of the Cayenne/Tuareg makes it easy to load and unlaod. If you get the air ride suspension you can lower the car to facilitate loading easier.

The Cayenne also gets attention like most Porsche's do. I bought the car because it impressed me, I could care less about what other people think. I would give it a chance you might find it to be more than the sum of its parts.

I also know several people that have recently traded in their Lexus SUV's for CS and CT's and said they couldn't have made a better choice.

Good Luck

mamoroso

Cobalt
the CT is out of the picture, don't want to spend over 80 grand for an "all rounder". Besides I am saving for my next purchase (GT3 or 964 RS Euro, havent decided quite yet).

SKL
To me the wagon and the SUVs in question are comparable. We'll never go off-road, no need for towing. Need cargo space for strollers and all the gear 2 under 2yr old kids need. The best feature for the MB was the 3rd row of seats.

In terms of quality I have been lurking on the different msg boards and they all have issues.... If it's not the transmission it's electrical gremlins etc.

I think we'll drive the CS and see whether it is worth (for us) $10k more than the T-reg.
Thanks again for all the inputs!

Alan Smithee

Curious as to why you think the Cayenne is superior in these regards...the Touareg (proper spelling) and Cayenne share transmissions, steering columns, doors (front and rear) and all other body structure from A to C pillars, and seat bases (front and rear).

Also, your claim that both are "by far safer" than the MB E-class is dubious. Yes, both of the SUVs are much heavier, which may help in an impact with a smaller vehicle...but if the impact is with a solid object or heavier vehicle, the weight isn't in places to improve safety (note the plastic front fenders). And both still have a higher center of gravity than any sedan/wagon, and are therefore more prone to rolling when either attempting to or unable to avoid an accident...that's physics, and it can't be argued.

IMO, like most SUVS and contrary to the thinking of the American public, safety was NOT a priority when the Touareg/Cayenne was designed...unlike MB sedans.

cobalt

I thoroughly understand.

I had a special deal to resolve some issues on a previous vehicle, otherwise the thought of spending $80k on a truck was outlandish. Although now that I have the CT I am glad I stepped up. I highly recommend NOT test driving a CT. You will want one and it is not fair to compare the CS with the CT. If you test drive the CS try the air suspension. I think you will find it to be the better ride.

I was under the impression the third seats in the Audi Allroad and MB E class were no longer available. Something about US standards no longer permitting rear facing seats. Come to think of it if you are looking for a nice family wagon type the Allroad is a very capable car for about the same price.

I like the euro 964 RS myself. The CT is a great vehicle but it cannot replace my turbo 3.6 although for the size of the vehicle it is not to shabby.

Good Luck

Alan,

I have seen several Cayennes involved in front end collisions, one had a very high speed impact into the back of a parked truck. The truck they hit was unrecognizable. Other than the air bag damage and the totalled front end there was no evidence of an accident in the interior. Both occupants walked away unscathed. Not even the windshield was cracked. How many vehicles can you site that can withstand an impact like that without intruding on the cabin. I know of someone who had an accident in an E class MB. Serious knee and shoulder damage and they hit a Hyundi. Both cars appeared to have received equal damage.

Although you profess to know better, Porsche/VW designed the chassis of the Cayenne/Touareg (pardon my spelling) with different strength steels and alloys to absorb impacts like this. I was told (Maybe incorrectly) that the Porsche uses different air bags, side curtains than VW, my point was about the fit and finish. I am not concerned with the fenders they are not there to protect the occupants. I have driven both the MB and the Cayenne and the weight is not an issue in the Cayenne. In fact I found the Cayenne to be far more stable and maneuverable than the Audi A8 or the MB E320. The air suspension and PSM take care of extreme conditions. The vehicle is very capable and unless your a twit you would have a hard time flipping it. I have recently driven through 70 mph winds and 2 inches of standing water in the Cayenne and the car was rock solid. My mothers MB would be all over the road in similar conditions. In fact I passed numerous crawling MB's BMW's and other 4x4's without a hint of instability. Anyone can flip a car or truck if they allow themselves to get that far over their head. I am just pointing out that the Cayenne is very capable for its size. I have not researched the Touareg, I do not believe Porsche has licensed out the Tiptronic S transmission, I could be wrong. However everything else is different especially were it counts like the engine and suspension. The suspension is what makes the vehicle so capable.

Alan Smithee

Every accident is unique; there is no way to compare pictures or view damage evidence in two different incidents and determine one vehicle is more safe. If it makes you sleep better thinking the Cayenne/Touareg is safer, that's great...but the only equal measure we have is crash testing, and in that regard I haven't seen anything to prove the Cayenne/Touareg is safer than the cars you cite. And as I said, the higher center of gravity makes abrupt transitions in any SUV more prone to a rollover than a car, so safety is reduced. I'm not arguing that the Cayenne isn't capable and a good handling SUV, but PSM and other Porsche engineering can't change the laws of physics. And you aren't concerned with front fenders? I'm no structural or accident expert, but when Porsche/VW made the Cayenne/Touareg capable of serious off-roading by, for instance, fitting giant springs the size of my thigh...and put plastic fenders on the front in an effort to reduce weight elsewhere...safety wasn't the priority.

All Touaregs and Cayennes...from the VR6s (which they both share) to the twin-turbos (both the gas V8 in the Porsche and diesel V10 in the VW)...use the same Aisin transmission. VW has licensed the
Tiptronic name for manual operation, although US models do not have steering wheel buttons.

The Touareg and Cayenne share very stiff body structures (if you have information to indicate Porsche and VW designed different body structures, I'd love to see it), electronics, suspension designs, braking systems, and drivetrains (only the V8s being different), as well as many body, glass, and interior parts. A look at the identical A-, B-, and C-pillar trim, seat belts, and trim above the side windows in both vehicles including rear seat lighting and grab handles, will confirm they share the same airbag designs underneath as well. (And with many similar parts being assembled on the same line, basic fit and finish is the same in both vehicles. Leather dashboards and other unique Porsche trim pieces notwithstanding.) Sharing so many components is what allowed development costs to be kept down. Firmer suspensions (both air and steel), rear-biased torque split, and a quicker steering ratio is what gives the Cayenne better handling.

mudman2

Alan, I am in the mountains right now haver towed a 14ft laden trailer with my S 350 miles this afternoon, its almost like its not there. You are missing the point I think. Post the creation of the common elements Porsche does its magic and creates the silk purse from the sows ear. Drive both and make the decision for yourself. We did !

bancu

Your statement about the Benz intrigues me. Did you drive a e500 4matic wagon (with its v8 and air suspension) or an e320 4matic wagon? Was it an acceleration issue that bothered you about the Benz? Were you driving it with the transmission in comfort mode?

How did your wife like driving the Benz and is she going to be driving the new vehicle around town mostly?

I'd go into why I went with the Cayenne but it was for me and not my wife so the reasons wouldn't really apply. Further more, before I got the Cayenne my wife make it clear to me that I wasn't going get her out of the ML55 into the Cayenne. The Cayenne is growing on her but she still prefers the ML55 for around town.

Keeping in mind that your wife will be driving your new purchase (and you're looking at the Cayenne and Touareg) most of the time I'd look at the following link and follow my links over to Touareg board:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php...0&page=0#44650

The hesitation issue that seems to hit the Cayenne (and Touareg) impacts me most in our around town when you can't drive the Cayenne in a spirited mode. That's why I asked if your wife will be driving mostly around town.

Please note that I looked for the hesitation issue on the demo Cayennes I drove and did not pick it up. I chalk that up to the fact that I was pushing them aggressively and _not_ driving in traffic. Also the hesitation only hits me sporadically but when it does I feel like I'm a sitting duck in traffic and at the mercy of the Cayenne until _it_ decides to move. At the least I'd be sure to check with the Porsche dealer you're think of using and make it clear to them how you feel about this documented behavior. Porsche appears to finally be making some headway on this issue but I wouldn't want to put my wife and a baby in a Cayenne with this issue.

It's also worth noting that the Touareg has a sport mode on its transmission while Porsche relies (poorly it seems to me around town) on auto adapting the same transmission to your driving style.

Tiptronic seems like it's just a marketing phrase with the Cayenne. A Mercedes transmission (AMG or not) seems better around town and I much prefer the Mercedes one-touch shift into Optimum Gear feature for in town driving.

Finally, Mercedes' Electronic Stability Program (ESP) seems to be more aggressive (or intrusive depending on how you look it at) than Porsche's PSM. I like the PSM approach better but I can still remember this first time I pushed the Cayenne and broke the tail away when we were on an ice track. It just took a touch to bring it back and I commented on how enjoyable it was to my wife. She asked 'and that's safer then the ML?' Thinking about it I had to agree that it probably wasn’t for most folks.

cobalt

Alan,

I am curious to know, have you actually driven any of these cars? You are comparing the basic structure of the Cayenne vs the Touareg and calling them equal discounting, in my opinion, what makes a car most safe. The ability to avoid an accident instead of survive it. A fair part of safety is how you feel and fit behind the wheel, how the car responds to your input and in this case corrects for your mistakes. I suggest you read up on the PSM, PASM and PTM features available as standard on the Turbo and optional on the S. I interjected the merits of the Turbo myself. It is the stiffer suspension, rear-biased torque split, and quicker steering ratio that you mention along with PSM, PASM & PTM that make the Cayenne the stable vehicle that it is. You yourself talk about its stiff structure which is key to surviving. Both in its ability to react quickly without loosing control and in the case of an accident. The little shifter ***** of the Tip S make driving an easier process causing less need to remove hands from the wheel. If the Tip used on the VW is the same they license to Audi etc, I believe you will find it to be somewhat different to the Tip S. Is it is a 6 speed? Yes they are manufactured in Japan.

Porsche and VW have spent extensive money and research using years of racing experience to design a structure that is amazingly stiff for its size and designed to channel impact energy in a controlled manner to shield the passenger compartment. If you could have seen this vehicle after an accident you would agree it is worth 1000 crash tests.

I have driven the Cayenne and the MB and I can tell you that with my 25 years of driving Porsches and performance cars, both on the street and track, the CT is capable of many things the MB E320 is not. The CS equipped with the right options is equally as capable, for equal money the CS would be my choice for carrying my son.

docjackson1

i purchased a cayenne s. an e series is a different animal-a good car, but an awd sedan. to be honest, the major reason to pay 10k more for the cs over the toureg v8 is that you want the porsche, and that you don't want to deal with the vw dealers for service. really, for 43-45k, the v8 treg is one hell of an suv.

alex911s

I've driven both Cayenne, and touareg, and every japanese suv you can imagine, I didnt have to ask my fellow PCA member for advice, I just brought my wife with me. We've owned an RX300, lx450 and 3 generations of 4 runner, and owned a 911S for 10 years. I never sold my porsche, cause i was looking for something that drives like it but more comfort, that's why i have 2 cars for the comfort zone of daily driving. Because of the cayenne I may need to sell my 911S now that I got both luxury and 911 characteristics and very very happy with my Cayenne. None of these SUV's will be worth more than the Cayenne 5 or 10 years from now. My 911S is 30 years old and it's worth more than my LX450. I've driven all 3 models but could only afford the V6 and still the best SUV I've ever driven. But again it's your decision, dont let your wife test drive the cayenne cause you'll definitely go home with it,:-) My wife says , let's take it home and traded her AUDI A4:-)

woogiedaxel

Cayennes are the best performance SUV on planet hands down. I had ML320 and was going to get into a ML55 (for performance reasons), drove the Cay-S and was like whoa! Made ML's feel like even more bigger POS. If your kids are small Cayenne is cool, if they are growing up the room is small in back like an ML, the trunk space is even smaller. A bigger ute like LX450, or Sequioa is more practical if u need more passenger space or your kids are not kids anymore.