High Milage Advice?
04-18-2024, 12:15 PM
#16
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I have an 05 S that I bought 15 years ago. It now has 280,000 miles of which I have put on 230,000. It is still in very good shape inside and out. No dents or dings, full leather interior, air suspension and an aftermarket stereo system that is amazing. Running 265/65 BFG's for the last 80,000 miles, this thing goes off road quite a bit with no problems. I have had most every established Cayenne problem with this one repaired. Right now it needs both upper and lower control arms replaced, the bushings are shot.
Given the miles my mechanic thought I should think twice about doing this, cost is around $3,200 with alignment. I have the the oil changed every 10k miles, I have not had to add one quart of oil since I bought it, engine runs great. Transmission shifts hard from 2nd to 3rd and from 3rd to 2nd sometimes, but it has done this since I replaced the valve body about 120,000 miles ago, doesn't bother me. Still shifts through the gears smoothly when accelerating though. Just looking for advice from any other high mileage owners out there on whether or not I should do the repair or buy a newer one. I hate to give this one up, it has never let me down.
Any others out there with this many miles on whether or not I should keep fixing this one? How long can a good thing last?
Thank you in advance!
Given the miles my mechanic thought I should think twice about doing this, cost is around $3,200 with alignment. I have the the oil changed every 10k miles, I have not had to add one quart of oil since I bought it, engine runs great. Transmission shifts hard from 2nd to 3rd and from 3rd to 2nd sometimes, but it has done this since I replaced the valve body about 120,000 miles ago, doesn't bother me. Still shifts through the gears smoothly when accelerating though. Just looking for advice from any other high mileage owners out there on whether or not I should do the repair or buy a newer one. I hate to give this one up, it has never let me down.
Any others out there with this many miles on whether or not I should keep fixing this one? How long can a good thing last?
Thank you in advance!
04-18-2024, 02:23 PM
#17
Race Director
We have a similar ownership history - my 04 CTT went from just under 80K to about 275K and it's in on the lift today waiting for me to get home and install four new struts and all new control arms (again!) I've done all the usual suspects at least once and for years have had my eyes on other cars but when I really start to compare pro's vs con's - what am I really getting? The 955 is so well built, the fixes are so well documented, and the shared parts with VW make it pretty reasonable to put money into even sticking with TRW, Lemforder, etc. I'm even about to put a new OEM bumper, set of OE headlamps on it, and respray the roof. There's nothing else like these old pigs - I've been around these cars for a long time and while I thought the 955 was blasphemy when it came out, I'll be damned if it hasn't excelled at everything I've asked it to do and put a smile on my face every time I get behind the wheel that only vanishes when I hit the gas pump.
That said I think $3200 a bit high but what isn't these days? I would feel better paying (or charging) $2500 but those thinking it should cost $1000 don't appreciate how much more work it is to change the upper control arms on the air suspension vs the spring or don't value their trusted mechanics time and skills. Minimum of 4 hours. Plenty of annoyances. To those that say it's not much different than a Honda and reduce it to "its essentially remove some stuff and reinstall some new parts" or that a competent general mechanic will charge less for his education on this job than a Euro specific indy will charge for their experience I say see how willing you are to do this job for...
~$480 per control arm (no hardware of any kind) through the dealer (no shop is warrantying their labor on aftermarket or customer provided parts) x4 plus say 8% tax and we are over $2K before labor, broken clips, worn sway bar links, seized hardware, the time spent looking for those torx bolts that hold the false firewall on when you drop em on the undercover, replacing the brittle plastic air hoses covering one of the passenger side strut mount bolts at your expense because the customer will flip out even though just looking at them , or removing the (also seized) wiper arms so you can remove the cowl (please don't break) to get the other PITA strut mount bolt, etc.
Oh don't forget to align the car - good luck with it taking any less than 45 minutes from rolling the car on the rack to rolling it off with the 20 year old hardware the customer didn't want in the estimate is now needing replaced so the tech has to pull the car off the rack, get price and availability for replacement hardware, call customer for approval, get accused of "upselling" and for the car not being done yesterday, wait for the dealer hardware to show, get the car back on the rack and aligned, Total everything up realize the tech has 6 hours in this job and you ate $300 worth of plastic **** that broke and seized hardware, dead bushings, etc that the customer didn't want to pay for in the initial estimate but were needed in any case..... man $3200 doesn't seem too unfair now!
Yes you can do this job DIY for WAY less but you will need tools, knowledge, and time. A shop exists to make money and if you want them to stand behind their work they are going to use OEM parts and account for the stuff they know they will need to replace incidental to the job and make enough money to pay good help that won't bring be-backs with them
That said I think $3200 a bit high but what isn't these days? I would feel better paying (or charging) $2500 but those thinking it should cost $1000 don't appreciate how much more work it is to change the upper control arms on the air suspension vs the spring or don't value their trusted mechanics time and skills. Minimum of 4 hours. Plenty of annoyances. To those that say it's not much different than a Honda and reduce it to "its essentially remove some stuff and reinstall some new parts" or that a competent general mechanic will charge less for his education on this job than a Euro specific indy will charge for their experience I say see how willing you are to do this job for...
~$480 per control arm (no hardware of any kind) through the dealer (no shop is warrantying their labor on aftermarket or customer provided parts) x4 plus say 8% tax and we are over $2K before labor, broken clips, worn sway bar links, seized hardware, the time spent looking for those torx bolts that hold the false firewall on when you drop em on the undercover, replacing the brittle plastic air hoses covering one of the passenger side strut mount bolts at your expense because the customer will flip out even though just looking at them , or removing the (also seized) wiper arms so you can remove the cowl (please don't break) to get the other PITA strut mount bolt, etc.
Oh don't forget to align the car - good luck with it taking any less than 45 minutes from rolling the car on the rack to rolling it off with the 20 year old hardware the customer didn't want in the estimate is now needing replaced so the tech has to pull the car off the rack, get price and availability for replacement hardware, call customer for approval, get accused of "upselling" and for the car not being done yesterday, wait for the dealer hardware to show, get the car back on the rack and aligned, Total everything up realize the tech has 6 hours in this job and you ate $300 worth of plastic **** that broke and seized hardware, dead bushings, etc that the customer didn't want to pay for in the initial estimate but were needed in any case..... man $3200 doesn't seem too unfair now!
Yes you can do this job DIY for WAY less but you will need tools, knowledge, and time. A shop exists to make money and if you want them to stand behind their work they are going to use OEM parts and account for the stuff they know they will need to replace incidental to the job and make enough money to pay good help that won't bring be-backs with them
04-18-2024, 03:12 PM
#18
Racer
We have a similar ownership history - my 04 CTT went from just under 80K to about 275K and it's in on the lift today waiting for me to get home and install four new struts and all new control arms (again!) I've done all the usual suspects at least once and for years have had my eyes on other cars but when I really start to compare pro's vs con's - what am I really getting? The 955 is so well built, the fixes are so well documented, and the shared parts with VW make it pretty reasonable to put money into even sticking with TRW, Lemforder, etc. I'm even about to put a new OEM bumper, set of OE headlamps on it, and respray the roof. There's nothing else like these old pigs - I've been around these cars for a long time and while I thought the 955 was blasphemy when it came out, I'll be damned if it hasn't excelled at everything I've asked it to do and put a smile on my face every time I get behind the wheel that only vanishes when I hit the gas pump.
That said I think $3200 a bit high but what isn't these days? I would feel better paying (or charging) $2500 but those thinking it should cost $1000 don't appreciate how much more work it is to change the upper control arms on the air suspension vs the spring or don't value their trusted mechanics time and skills. Minimum of 4 hours. Plenty of annoyances. To those that say it's not much different than a Honda and reduce it to "its essentially remove some stuff and reinstall some new parts" or that a competent general mechanic will charge less for his education on this job than a Euro specific indy will charge for their experience I say see how willing you are to do this job for...
~$480 per control arm (no hardware of any kind) through the dealer (no shop is warrantying their labor on aftermarket or customer provided parts) x4 plus say 8% tax and we are over $2K before labor, broken clips, worn sway bar links, seized hardware, the time spent looking for those torx bolts that hold the false firewall on when you drop em on the undercover, replacing the brittle plastic air hoses covering one of the passenger side strut mount bolts at your expense because the customer will flip out even though just looking at them , or removing the (also seized) wiper arms so you can remove the cowl (please don't break) to get the other PITA strut mount bolt, etc.
Oh don't forget to align the car - good luck with it taking any less than 45 minutes from rolling the car on the rack to rolling it off with the 20 year old hardware the customer didn't want in the estimate is now needing replaced so the tech has to pull the car off the rack, get price and availability for replacement hardware, call customer for approval, get accused of "upselling" and for the car not being done yesterday, wait for the dealer hardware to show, get the car back on the rack and aligned, Total everything up realize the tech has 6 hours in this job and you ate $300 worth of plastic **** that broke and seized hardware, dead bushings, etc that the customer didn't want to pay for in the initial estimate but were needed in any case..... man $3200 doesn't seem too unfair now!
Yes you can do this job DIY for WAY less but you will need tools, knowledge, and time. A shop exists to make money and if you want them to stand behind their work they are going to use OEM parts and account for the stuff they know they will need to replace incidental to the job and make enough money to pay good help that won't bring be-backs with them
That said I think $3200 a bit high but what isn't these days? I would feel better paying (or charging) $2500 but those thinking it should cost $1000 don't appreciate how much more work it is to change the upper control arms on the air suspension vs the spring or don't value their trusted mechanics time and skills. Minimum of 4 hours. Plenty of annoyances. To those that say it's not much different than a Honda and reduce it to "its essentially remove some stuff and reinstall some new parts" or that a competent general mechanic will charge less for his education on this job than a Euro specific indy will charge for their experience I say see how willing you are to do this job for...
~$480 per control arm (no hardware of any kind) through the dealer (no shop is warrantying their labor on aftermarket or customer provided parts) x4 plus say 8% tax and we are over $2K before labor, broken clips, worn sway bar links, seized hardware, the time spent looking for those torx bolts that hold the false firewall on when you drop em on the undercover, replacing the brittle plastic air hoses covering one of the passenger side strut mount bolts at your expense because the customer will flip out even though just looking at them , or removing the (also seized) wiper arms so you can remove the cowl (please don't break) to get the other PITA strut mount bolt, etc.
Oh don't forget to align the car - good luck with it taking any less than 45 minutes from rolling the car on the rack to rolling it off with the 20 year old hardware the customer didn't want in the estimate is now needing replaced so the tech has to pull the car off the rack, get price and availability for replacement hardware, call customer for approval, get accused of "upselling" and for the car not being done yesterday, wait for the dealer hardware to show, get the car back on the rack and aligned, Total everything up realize the tech has 6 hours in this job and you ate $300 worth of plastic **** that broke and seized hardware, dead bushings, etc that the customer didn't want to pay for in the initial estimate but were needed in any case..... man $3200 doesn't seem too unfair now!
Yes you can do this job DIY for WAY less but you will need tools, knowledge, and time. A shop exists to make money and if you want them to stand behind their work they are going to use OEM parts and account for the stuff they know they will need to replace incidental to the job and make enough money to pay good help that won't bring be-backs with them
The following users liked this post:
545moose (04-19-2024)
04-19-2024, 12:01 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
We have a similar ownership history - my 04 CTT went from just under 80K to about 275K and it's in on the lift today waiting for me to get home and install four new struts and all new control arms (again!) I've done all the usual suspects at least once and for years have had my eyes on other cars but when I really start to compare pro's vs con's - what am I really getting? The 955 is so well built, the fixes are so well documented, and the shared parts with VW make it pretty reasonable to put money into even sticking with TRW, Lemforder, etc. I'm even about to put a new OEM bumper, set of OE headlamps on it, and respray the roof. There's nothing else like these old pigs - I've been around these cars for a long time and while I thought the 955 was blasphemy when it came out, I'll be damned if it hasn't excelled at everything I've asked it to do and put a smile on my face every time I get behind the wheel that only vanishes when I hit the gas pump.
That said I think $3200 a bit high but what isn't these days? I would feel better paying (or charging) $2500 but those thinking it should cost $1000 don't appreciate how much more work it is to change the upper control arms on the air suspension vs the spring or don't value their trusted mechanics time and skills. Minimum of 4 hours. Plenty of annoyances. To those that say it's not much different than a Honda and reduce it to "its essentially remove some stuff and reinstall some new parts" or that a competent general mechanic will charge less for his education on this job than a Euro specific indy will charge for their experience I say see how willing you are to do this job for...
~$480 per control arm (no hardware of any kind) through the dealer (no shop is warrantying their labor on aftermarket or customer provided parts) x4 plus say 8% tax and we are over $2K before labor, broken clips, worn sway bar links, seized hardware, the time spent looking for those torx bolts that hold the false firewall on when you drop em on the undercover, replacing the brittle plastic air hoses covering one of the passenger side strut mount bolts at your expense because the customer will flip out even though just looking at them , or removing the (also seized) wiper arms so you can remove the cowl (please don't break) to get the other PITA strut mount bolt, etc.
Oh don't forget to align the car - good luck with it taking any less than 45 minutes from rolling the car on the rack to rolling it off with the 20 year old hardware the customer didn't want in the estimate is now needing replaced so the tech has to pull the car off the rack, get price and availability for replacement hardware, call customer for approval, get accused of "upselling" and for the car not being done yesterday, wait for the dealer hardware to show, get the car back on the rack and aligned, Total everything up realize the tech has 6 hours in this job and you ate $300 worth of plastic **** that broke and seized hardware, dead bushings, etc that the customer didn't want to pay for in the initial estimate but were needed in any case..... man $3200 doesn't seem too unfair now!
Yes you can do this job DIY for WAY less but you will need tools, knowledge, and time. A shop exists to make money and if you want them to stand behind their work they are going to use OEM parts and account for the stuff they know they will need to replace incidental to the job and make enough money to pay good help that won't bring be-backs with them
That said I think $3200 a bit high but what isn't these days? I would feel better paying (or charging) $2500 but those thinking it should cost $1000 don't appreciate how much more work it is to change the upper control arms on the air suspension vs the spring or don't value their trusted mechanics time and skills. Minimum of 4 hours. Plenty of annoyances. To those that say it's not much different than a Honda and reduce it to "its essentially remove some stuff and reinstall some new parts" or that a competent general mechanic will charge less for his education on this job than a Euro specific indy will charge for their experience I say see how willing you are to do this job for...
~$480 per control arm (no hardware of any kind) through the dealer (no shop is warrantying their labor on aftermarket or customer provided parts) x4 plus say 8% tax and we are over $2K before labor, broken clips, worn sway bar links, seized hardware, the time spent looking for those torx bolts that hold the false firewall on when you drop em on the undercover, replacing the brittle plastic air hoses covering one of the passenger side strut mount bolts at your expense because the customer will flip out even though just looking at them , or removing the (also seized) wiper arms so you can remove the cowl (please don't break) to get the other PITA strut mount bolt, etc.
Oh don't forget to align the car - good luck with it taking any less than 45 minutes from rolling the car on the rack to rolling it off with the 20 year old hardware the customer didn't want in the estimate is now needing replaced so the tech has to pull the car off the rack, get price and availability for replacement hardware, call customer for approval, get accused of "upselling" and for the car not being done yesterday, wait for the dealer hardware to show, get the car back on the rack and aligned, Total everything up realize the tech has 6 hours in this job and you ate $300 worth of plastic **** that broke and seized hardware, dead bushings, etc that the customer didn't want to pay for in the initial estimate but were needed in any case..... man $3200 doesn't seem too unfair now!
Yes you can do this job DIY for WAY less but you will need tools, knowledge, and time. A shop exists to make money and if you want them to stand behind their work they are going to use OEM parts and account for the stuff they know they will need to replace incidental to the job and make enough money to pay good help that won't bring be-backs with them
I appreciate your feedback and good to hear from another high mile Cayenne owner. Cheers!
Last edited by red95993; 04-19-2024 at 12:20 AM.
04-19-2024, 12:19 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I respectfully disagree. If I'm underselling the effort involved in this work, so be it...but you're overselling it. The front suspension on the cayenne is not Porsche specific or somehow overengineered. It's a double-wishbone front suspension found on lots of different makes and models (Hondas too!). I see you're in NY. The OP is in Cali, his car is probably not rusty with seized hardware. Also, once the parts are off the alignment is easy...the eccentric bolts that are used for the alignment are all removed during the repair so they won't be a problem. Don't quote expensive OE parts when there is nothing wrong with aftermarket OEM parts for this job. You will see zero improvement going with original parts here. OP, please let us know what parts these quotes are using. If this is all OE Porsche stuff, fine, that's why you're getting quotes for $3200. You can buy all this stuff from a place like FCP Euro and get a lifetime warranty on everything. You just need a shop that will install customer supplied parts.
This is my take on life, you get what you pay for...
04-19-2024, 01:12 AM
#21
Racer
I like your enthusiasm! However - would you take a Rolex to a general watch repair shop? I did, once, 14 years ago. My wife found an old Rolex from my birth year (hard to do!). It wasn't running right, I didn't have the $$$ at the time to afford the Rolex refurbish repair of $700. I paid a general watch repair shop $250 to revive it. They stripped the crown threads and for some reason replaced the original hands (probably sold them) with ones that didn't match. It ran for one year. Then I took it to the Rolex repair shop, they cleaned the watch, fixed the stripped crown threads, polished the case, gave me a new leather strap and replaced the hands with ones exactly like the original ones. For $800. And it has been running fine now for 11 years. Much cheaper cost per year!
This is my take on life, you get what you pay for...
This is my take on life, you get what you pay for...
Porsche does not manufacture the control arms. They have another company (TRW is one) produce them, put them in a Porsche box/bag, and then mark up the price by 100%. Hell, go buy some the same parts for an Audi Q7 for less (and they are still marked up parts).
You started off this thread asking if it made sense to spend $3200 on your Cayenne at this point. No, it doesn’t. If you insist on paying a premium for parts and labor, it would just take a few other things needing replacement this year for you to spend $5000 on a car that is worth less than that now. Good luck, I hope you make a good decision.
04-19-2024, 03:21 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=BobcatBrian;19394334]T. I’ve never replaced the control arms on a Cayenne,
This is why I respectfully disagree. Regarding replacing these control arms with the airbag suspension, I've learned there are headlight leveler sensors for the headlights, airbag components which are 19 years old, airbag air lines and the compression fittings, suspension height and level sensors, electrical connections for these, the abs sensor, taking the cowl up top off with those brittle plastic screws to get to the top bolts, taking out the fender liner which is a pain - etc. are all reasons why I now want to take it to a place with experience in doing many of these repairs before. And the alignment is included. And if there are other things that need replacing they can fix these too.
I was mainly looking for other people with high milage Cayenne's to get their opinion on more than just the repair itself, like how long will these things last if you take care of them. And I have learned that it will be worth it to me.
I've learned a lot since posting this thread, thanks all for your responses!
This is why I respectfully disagree. Regarding replacing these control arms with the airbag suspension, I've learned there are headlight leveler sensors for the headlights, airbag components which are 19 years old, airbag air lines and the compression fittings, suspension height and level sensors, electrical connections for these, the abs sensor, taking the cowl up top off with those brittle plastic screws to get to the top bolts, taking out the fender liner which is a pain - etc. are all reasons why I now want to take it to a place with experience in doing many of these repairs before. And the alignment is included. And if there are other things that need replacing they can fix these too.
I was mainly looking for other people with high milage Cayenne's to get their opinion on more than just the repair itself, like how long will these things last if you take care of them. And I have learned that it will be worth it to me.
I've learned a lot since posting this thread, thanks all for your responses!
Last edited by red95993; 04-19-2024 at 04:10 AM.
The following 2 users liked this post by red95993:
BobcatBrian (04-19-2024),
ventoGT (04-20-2024)
04-20-2024, 10:47 PM
#24
Track Day
I'm in the process of giving up on my Cayenne. Its an 05 turbo with 166k miles. I did the upper and lower control arms, fixed a vacuum leak, replaced the water pump, replaced the driveshaft, replaced the headlight wire harnesses, and some other things. I love the car but it has a electrical drain that I can't figure out. I've taken it to a few shops to figure it out to. Its been close to a year now since the electrical issues started. The car had a great run but I don't drive it anymore so I think its time to say goodbye. Even before the electrical issues it was running into a new problem every couple of months and I couldn't trust it anymore.
I have a CLS 550 now. Its nice, but I don't like it the same way I liked the Cayenne. If I were you, I would start looking around at cars now just to have an idea of what to replace it with so you're not in a rush when the time comes. In a way, I think that a King Ranch F150 is the closest thing to what the Cayenne was. The new luxury SUVs seem to be more focused on sport than comfort and offroad ability.
I have a CLS 550 now. Its nice, but I don't like it the same way I liked the Cayenne. If I were you, I would start looking around at cars now just to have an idea of what to replace it with so you're not in a rush when the time comes. In a way, I think that a King Ranch F150 is the closest thing to what the Cayenne was. The new luxury SUVs seem to be more focused on sport than comfort and offroad ability.
04-21-2024, 12:36 AM
#25
Racer
