oldskewel

EDIT - UPDATE - Not really sure what changed other than my dog and son starting to help me out, but it opened. So now, with nothing changed, it works how I thought it should all along. Testing extensively, still seems to work just like it should. Not sure whether to do the full reinstall at this point. Definitely will be ordering a new lock actuator. And I guess if it is going to close and never open, it would be better if the window is in place.

update on the update - look for my next-day post and you'll see I think I found the root cause of the problem.

SO NO HELP IS ACTUALLY NEEDED ... FOR NOW


OK I'm confused and must have screwed something up, but I still don't know, so I'm asking for help.

2004 Cayenne S
I had some problems with locking on the left rear door, so I took the door lock actuator out to figure out what was going on. I did notice a few issues, fixed them, and it bench tested fine, and also tested fine when plugged into the electrics on the car and actuated with the door handle lock/unlock button. Great success! And then ...

During re-assembly just now, I reinstalled the actuator in the bare door (the "door unit carrier", which is the window, window frame, regulator, and steel inner door panel has been removed). This installation meant the striker plate was screwed into the door with the two XZN M8 screws, and the outer door handle was reattached, with the little pull cable going from the handle to the door lock actuator.

Even now, it all looks just fine to me. I don't see anything wrong, and don't know why the door is not opening.

So as a test, before reinstalling the "door unit carrier," I closed the door.

AND NOW THE DOOR IS LOCKED CLOSED AND WILL NOT OPEN. Everything is fully accessible and visible since there is really nothing at all in place except the door lock actuator and the steel outer door. But still, I cannot get it to open.

Any ideas?

I have tried the red plastic manual lock thing.
Pulled pretty hard on the door, of course, while also shifting it up or down in case there was an alignment issue.
I manually applied voltage to pins 1+2 in the lock actuator and it seems to still lock/unlock as commanded.
I've pulled on the interior door handle cable (multiple times).

It rattles a little when I pull really hard, but is absolutely locked in place.

Any ideas on what might be wrong and how this might be solved? I'd rather not use the jaws of life just yet, but will cut out the door lock actuator if it comes to that. I was planning to buy a new one anyway in case my little repairs to this one did not hold.

Quick help will be appreciated. Pics will follow as soon as I can upload them.

oldskewel

2004 Cayenne S. Left rear door. Door is locked shut, the entire window assembly (frame+glass) is part of the door unit carrier, which is out of the car right now.

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Looking down and to the rear at the door lock actuator.
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Zoomed in a little more
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View from lower down. The alligator clip was used for applying voltage directly to see if electrically unlocking would help = did not.
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Door handle pulled from outside. Comparing vs. my right rear door, pull seems correct in every way.
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View of little cable when outer door handle is pulled. (sorry, pic automatically rotated 90 degrees clockwise)
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Cable to inner door handle is pulled.
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Door lock actuator end, before pulling inner door handle cable.
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Door lock actuator end, while pulling inner door handle cable.

​​​​​​​Thanks!

wkearney99

Man, I hate door latch problems. Any cars I've ever had that developed those kinds of problems never seemed to get resolved. And window regulators? Ugh, even worse.

oldskewel

I really don't know what I would have done if it did not open. Hope I never need to worry about that again.

From playing around with it (and testing thoroughly before actually closing the door) yesterday while completing the reinstall, I think I found the problem point in my case. But I think this might only apply on reassembly:

First, from reading the service manual very very carefully (having a door locked with no window in place while raining will sharpen one's focus), I noticed that it says something about how if reinstalling the lock actuator without the door unit carrier in place, things will be off by 2mm. File that away for now.

But the thing that broke / fixed it was the specific attachment of the little cable that goes from the door lock actuator to the outer door handle. It is designed with a serrated groove so you can set the cable in with an allowance to set how far in/out the cable is set - about 6mm of total travel, I'll guess. Foolish me figured that more is always better of course, so I set it so that the cable was set in place at the furthest outboard location, so that pulling the door handle would pull it even further. This was a mistake. Turns out that doing it this way will not allow something in the door lock mechanism (nothing to do with the electrics / motor / etc.) to reset itself when the handle is released.

After it happened again (when everything, including the inner door panel was installed and I was testing it before closing the door again), I investigated further until I discovered this. In that state (door open, everything installed, final testing, door latch failing to release when inner and outer handles were pulled), the fix was to remove the door lock (loosen the T20 screw under the plastic circular plug going from the rear door jamb toward the outer door handle, allowing the door lock [the rear part of the outer door handle = where a keyed lock would go if one existed on that door] to be removed). At that point, you can look inside and see that tiny cable. Pliers or little screwdriver to pop it out of its serrated channel will allow it to go slack. In my case, that's what it took to allow the cable to fully retract and allow the lock mechanism to reset. I could hear a distinctive click when this happened. From that point, pulling that cable would open the door latch, as would pulling the inner door handle. Before doing that, neither handle worked.

So I reset the cable with it not pulled out so much (maximum slack actually - I figure I'd rather have the outer door handle not work and need re-adjustment, while the inner handle works vs. having neither work). This is enough for the cable to retract enough when the handle is released and things work as they should.

After finding this, I realize that when I got myself out of the jam above, it was after I had removed that cable on the door lock actuator end (accessible then since I had not installed the door unit carrier). Removing that end similarly allowed the mechanism to reset somehow and it worked like it should. And thinking back to that, I also heard the distinctive click.

BTW, from going through the full re-install, I realize now that installing the lock actuator first, by itself was a mistake in itself. I thought I was being slow and careful doing it that way, but it would be virtually impossible to make that work. Proper way is to first install the door lock actuator to the door unit carrier, with the cables and wires, etc. all in place, including the cables that run out of the front door jamb into the B pillar. Once all that is assembled, it can be attached to the door pretty easily. Then the last step is to run that little cable through the outer door "lock", set the cable in place and install the "lock." Actually the last step is to test the hel! out of it before closing the door.

oldskewel

This problem is becoming more commonly reported on this list. Another thread pointed to this video, which I think explains it very well, although it does not mention the cable slack adjustment which is the critical thing to not get wrong.

Crozzer

I took this adventure one step further… pulled all the slack out of the cable and set the handle in place. Tested and all worked fine, except did not test the lock and unlock feature.

now the door is assembled and locked closed and neither latch will open it…

does anyone know how to un-f*ck this?

thanks!

oldskewel

Which door? (key vs. no key makes a difference; child lock might be an issue)

Why do you think it is a lock problem rather than a latch problem?

If it is a lock problem, have you tried doing the manual lock/unlock? From memory, there is a little rubber cap with a padlock icon on it, just barely visible near the door latch (but I think listed in the owner's manual). If you find that, pry off the rubber cap and you can turn the lock with a slotted screwdriver. As mentioned, all that is from failing memory. I may have mentioned it in another thread I had on here at the time. Thinking is that maybe the extra slack you've got in the exterior handle may be causing that not to work, and either a child lock or lock failure (vs. latch failure) may be the problem. If the child lock is active, the button by the driver's door control panel should be able to remedy that, allowing you to use the interior handle. Just bombarding easy ideas to try here.

Crozzer

Thanks for the thoughts! This is right/rear and it is stuck closed so I can’t get at the door jam to fiddle with manual locking or child lock.

I can hear the locking mechanism firing lock and unlock in the door when I press the buttons on the driver door, or when I use the fob. So I do t think it’s electrical.

i think I just didn’t set the installation lever on install. So the question is; how to reset the mechanism once the door is locked closed?

I’ve been able to use a pick to free the cable from the exterior handle, but it did not reset (yet). Interestingly, I think it is actually designed to be set loose and “ratchet” to the right tightness. This is because I can free it up, but then after a few door pulls it tightens up again.

fingers crossed and all help so welcome. Thanks!

tbo_cruiser

If you were able to free the cable from the exterior handle, then obviously the you will not be able to open the door from the outside. Did you try opening from the inside.
I think the mistake you made was to adjust the cable to the exterior cable wrong. You said you pulled out all the slack. You want to go the other way. You should start with as much slack as possible in the cable to the exterior handle. If it is too slack, then the outer handle with not operate the latch -- and you can test this with the door open. If it operates the latch at the most slack setting, then you should be good.
One other thing you might try -- stay outside the car by the door, place your hand above the exterior handle and push. If you hear a click, then the latch has reset and you should be able to open the door. (Of course, if the cable to the exterior handle is disconnected, then you will have to try opening from the inside).
Good luck!!

oldskewel

I'm having some trouble understanding the situation. But to at least clarify on my advice above, which might lead to a second look at what you've got in your car (seems like a lot of variation in the early days, BTW the advanced version of Kessy [whatever that is called] is another degree of freedom in the mix - mine does not have that).

Pics from the right rear door on my 2004 S (which, BTW do not match with my owner's manual, which is why I took the photos rather than referring you to the manual).



So, on my car, if you know exactly where these things are, you can access them even when the door is closed, sneaking a slotted screwdriver past the door gasket / weatherstripping. Bottom one is the child lock. Upper one is the manual lock override.

I also checked and both of my rear doors have the exact same layout. So, with your right door stuck, you should be able to look at your left door to see where things are.

Based on the description, I still cannot tell whether you've got a lock problem or a latch problem.

Now reading again, "pulled all the slack out of the cable" - if that means you made the cable full tight, then that is exactly the problem I created for myself as well.

So that would be a latch mechanism problem, regardless of the lock. A nice explanation of the problem I found back in the day was that the latching mechanism (within the door lock actuator) is like a desk paper stapler - if you staple something, and then don't let it retract all the way, it will not reset the mechanism and load the next staple, etc., so you can't staple any more. Same thing with the door latch mechanism - if it cannot retract to full-slack unstressed home position, it cannot unlatch again.

The solution may not be clear. But if your cable is tight that will keep the door closed regardless of locking or the inside door handle. I think I have seen videos on youtube where people reach down through the door to unhook the cable or something like that. But if you tested the hell out of it before closing the door, and then now after closing it and having it auto-lock (is that the situation?), then maybe lifting up on the door will provide the slack needed to let it reset. I would try that - lifting the door, perhaps gently levering it from below while also pushing the steel door panel near the door handle toward the center of the car as firmly as you feel comfortable doing without damaging anything. Maybe some fist impacts too, to help it move. The hope is that doing all that will provide enough slack to allow the mechanism to reset, and following that, the inner or outer handle should work normally. And then of course adjust the cable slack before closing the door again.

tbo_cruiser

This sounds a little like something that 'Rossi' described in one of the other door lock thread. He was actually replacing the lock actuator and left something off or loose. It worked fine on testing, but after auto-locking, he could not get it unlocked. I will try to find the thread and post a link. Also, you might PM him about this.

tbo_cruiser

Here is a link. Look at posts by Rossi, esp #22.

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...acement-2.html

Crozzer

Thanks, this was solved.
the key is to use window wedges on the outside, loosen the cable in the handle using a pick or similar, and reach in through the window slot to reset that latch.