charleypartanna

Hi all!

My 2003 Boxster (70k) has recently developed an oil leak. Perhaps a few.

I had the car in for some other work and my mechanic noted two areas of seepage:
- Between the motor and transmission, AND
- From the passenger side spark plug tubes

I have attached pictures of both areas.

My mechanic told me that the motor/transmission leak is consistent with RMS failure as well as IMS bearing failure. IMS scared the crap out of me so I immediately changed the oil. The LN magnetic drain plug did not have any metal. However, when I cut apart the filter, I found 30-40 TINY flecks of what appear to be metal. The are about the size of a piece of glitter. They do not appear to be ferrous when tested with a strong magnet.

Before this issue developed, I was already planning to sell the car. Rather spend a lot on repairs, I would rather disclose the issue to the new owner, price the car accordingly, and allow him to proceed with the repair since he may want to replace the IMS proactively (assuming it's not failing), replace the clutch (although it's fine right now), etc.

Questions for the experts:

1. Are the tiny metal flecks in the filter cause for IMS concern?

2. Any way to know whether the leak is due to RMS versus IMS? RMS was replaced at 20k.

3. Is the oil leak from the spark plugs repairable by replacing the tubes and o-rings? If so, that's easy and I'll do that.

4. Any other suggestions? Again, I'm looking to sell this car so I want to make any easy and reasonable repairs but not more.

Thanks!

Charley

P.S. Do not be worried about the oil drain plug. I am replacing it. When torquing it back it, the flange sheared off! Odd.

Macster

The tiny bits of metal are probably aluminum. Almost the entire interior surface of the engine is aluminum and over time will shed a small piece of casting flash every once in a while. After possibly going through a scavenge pump and through the oil pump the small piece of aluminum has been smashed thinner than foil and fractured into a number of small bits.

With no ferrous metal bits in the oil filter or filter oil I don't think what you found is any reason to be overly worried about an IMS issue.

The word I get is when replacing the RMS the iMS end flange and bolts should be replaced too. There is no real way to know the "RMS" leak is not due to a leaking IMS end flange and its bolts. When my 2002 was in for an RMS leak the old end flange was replaced with a new/improved flange with a 3-ribbed seal -- vs. the original's single o-ring -- and new micro-encapsulated bolts were used.

Your 2003 probably came from the factory with the new improved flange and the micro-encapsulated bolts. But if you expose the RMS to replace it my advice would be to replace the end flange and bolts too.

There is a slight chance the RMS leak is not the RMS (or IMS end flange/bolts) at all but a leak from somewhere else. When the transmission is removed the tech can check the rear of the engine block for any leak sign. With the Boxster engine I think there is at least one plug at the back of the block and there is also where the two crankcases halves join.

The spark plug tubes of my 2002 leaked and the tech replaced the o-rings and the leaks stopped. I don't know the level of effort to get the tubes out and back in again but I suspect if you are comfortable changing plugs and coils and so on the plug tubes are within your capabilities. Search for a write up on this to help forewarn you of any gotchas.

If you want to sell the car with the possible RMS (and IMS end flange) leak that's up to you.

Have to mention it is rather discouraging for most shoppers to encounter a used car that needs work. OTOH, someone in the market for a 14 year old car with over 70K miles on it should not be surprised the car might need some work. 'course, they probably are going to want some adjustment of the car's price.

About all you can do is be able to show you gave the car reasonable servicing and let the car's condition speak for itself.

Be sure to clean the car and get it looking its best.

lowpue

Here is how I would think about it for a boxster 986 (assuming that is what it is)
A boxster with a blown engine is worth about 2-2.5K. An IMS will cost about 2K. If you can get more than $4500 for the car then replacing the IMS is worth it. Otherwise the minute someone suspects IMS, its like you have a blown engine.

Byprodriver

I would change the oil & filter A.S.A.P. including removing the the oil sump pan & inspect for anything there. More metal = more concern! Drive car for 500- 1,000 miles & remove oil filter to inspect.

Macster

I overlooked this startment in your post:

My mechanic told me that the motor/transmission leak is consistent with RMS failure as well as IMS bearing failure.

While I don't like to disagree with professional techs I see nothing in the pics that suggests an IMS *bearing* problem. The leak pics look like an RMS leak and are consistent with what I saw with my Boxster and even my 996 Turbo (which has no IMS/IMSB).

The metal bits can be explained by as I touched upon the normal shedding of aluminum that is normal for engines that consist mainly of case aluminum (block, heads).

Also as I stated earlier with an RMS leak the IMS flange can also be leaking (or the bolts or some combination) and when the RMS is replaced it is SOP to replace the IMS end flange (for its new seal) and the bolts.

I would not drop the oil sump plate based on what the pics show. The problem is the sump plate may hold some amount of trash that was there from day 1 (and from where the aluminum might have come from I might add) and absent any other signs of a problem IMSB the presence of the trash means nothing and if misinterpreted can lead to a false conclusion.

If you want to after replacing the oil and filter run the engine some -- half an hour? hour? up to you -- then drop the oil filter housing and its contents into a *clean* drain pan and then carefully examine the oil and filter for any more debris that might be worth the trouble.

If the IMSB is indeed going out you will see or should see ferrous metal. I don't think you'll see anything to be worried about but if it buys you some peace of mind definitely worth the trouble. And while I don't think this is the case, I could be wrong.

Schnell Gelb

Charley,
I commend you for your honesty ! A prized and respected characteristic !
Suggest you refer any potential Buyer to this Thread and encourage them to participate in the discussion with us .
Here is a different take on your issue based on my recent engine rebuild.
1. If the RMS is leaking it will eventually contaminate the friction plate of the clutch and cause it to slip. You will have plenty of warning - not urgent but important. The clutch is probably toward the end of it's life anyway ?
2. While you are in there it is logical to test the DMF and replace the IMSB.
3. As BYProdriver suggested - dropping the sump plate will prove if there is a big issue or not. It is a simple,inexpensive job.Just post the photos of what you find here ,clan up and replace. Excellent info for a potential buyer.
Suggest you give more details of your car and location. WE may know a buyer or and Indie to recommend.
Once you have the help and diagnosis from us you may decide to keep the car :-)

algiorda

I had the same type of oil leak. It was the RMS. The only reason we found the RMS is because I scheduled an appt with my indy to replace the IMS. The RMS was in fact leaking once we cracked the trans. The IMS had very slight movement. I replaced the RMS, IMS, and the AOS all at the same time while we had the engine and trans dropped.

This was on a 2004 S SE with 53k miles. I feel much more comfortable now that the work is done and no oil leaks.