986 to 987 upgrade; Need Advice
10-29-2016, 04:40 PM
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986 to 987 upgrade; Need Advice
So I’m thinking of upgrading my 986 to a 987. I’m approaching retirement and want to get something with 60-70k miles around the $15-17,000 range. I’ve seen several good ones but have not begun to do any real research yet. I’m struggling with the idea of having to do the same kind of work on a 987 that I have had to do on my 986. Perhaps I just need to keep my 986. What do you think?
I did a complete financial analysis on my personal history of my car excluding gas, cleaning, and insurance. It is scary to say the least. If I show it to my wife I’m DEAD! Anyway, can anyone give me some feedback on this? Is this normal, above or below what you would expect.
Here is a short history (4 years) of my 986 ownership. It may prove interesting and helpful if you are considering a 986 in your future. I have a MY2000 986 base, Ocean Blue Metallic with grey interior. It had 86000 miles when I purchased it. I have owned it for 4 years and I have put on an additional 47,000. It sits at 133000 right now. It is a mix of around town and highway. Some all out on winding canyon roads. It is my daily driver rain or shine and I usually take it out about 1-2 weekends a month to carve canyons in the mountains near Sacramento where I live. I would consider myself a very spirited driver. That’s why I bought a Boxster. I bought it in 2012 off Craig’s list for 10,500 from the 2nd owner. A fair deal at the time. The records show an engine replacement in 2004 by the original dealer at 46,000 miles with the 1st owner. I figured the IMS blew out, but not certain. I considered the engine replacement a good deal when I purchased it as the IMS issue had probably been dealt with. When I bought it, it seemed like near perfect shape. Very clean, no leaks, and ding free. The driver’s seat was showing wear, but the interior was otherwise near perfect. I flew to Southern California, drove the car, had a PPI done, it checked out and I drove it home. It had slotted and drilled rotors but original brakes. Unbelievably I have not had to change brake pads in 47k miles and they are still good. It needed an alignment and front tires which I replaced immediately. It came with a nice OEM car cover, plastic wind screen, but no headrest windscreens. It needed an alignment and front tires immediately. I received some maintenance documentation but not complete. Since I purchased the car I have completed all regularly scheduled maintenance, including belts and filters. I change the oil (Mobil 1 synthetic 5w40) and filter every 5000 miles. Early on I was very intimidated by working on a Porsche and had to go to the shop. Now I am much more confident and seem to be able to diagnose and fix almost anything. Furthermore, I now have a part time job working at a NAPA parts store so I can get parts very cheap.
So here’s my story:
1st year of ownership; 86000-98000 miles (12K miles)
• I-phone cable; rear speakers, magnetic oil, drain plug, front tires, alignment, RF wheel bearing, spark plugs, Battery,
• Total cost Parts; $1335.00; Labor; $673.00
2nd year of ownership; 98000-111000 (11K miles)
• Rear trunk shocks, license plate mounting bracket, rear tires and alignment, water pump, thermostat, serpentine belt, (did the work myself)
• air/oil separator, alternator, complete clutch failure, (replaced clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, clutch fork, dual mass flywheel, IMS bearing) Outside shop did all work
• Total cost Parts; $4502.48; Labor; $1473.14
3rd year of ownership; 111000-121000 (10K miles)
• Convertible top replacement; parking brake switch, purge valve, fender liner, several intermittent problems with temp gauge, erratic idle, parking brake switch
• Total cost Parts; $1176.38; Labor; $1430.84
4th year of ownership; 121000-132000 (11K miles)
• O2 sensor, both door latches, front and rear tires and alignment, used seats. Outside shop did the work, I installed the seats.
• Total cost Parts; $3121.83; Labor; $969.35
5th year of ownership; 132000-133000 (1K miles)
• Under body panels replaced, dip stick tube; I did the work.
• Total cost Parts; $596.52; Labor; $00.00
I did a complete financial analysis on my personal history of my car excluding gas, cleaning, and insurance. It is scary to say the least. If I show it to my wife I’m DEAD! Anyway, can anyone give me some feedback on this? Is this normal, above or below what you would expect.
Here is a short history (4 years) of my 986 ownership. It may prove interesting and helpful if you are considering a 986 in your future. I have a MY2000 986 base, Ocean Blue Metallic with grey interior. It had 86000 miles when I purchased it. I have owned it for 4 years and I have put on an additional 47,000. It sits at 133000 right now. It is a mix of around town and highway. Some all out on winding canyon roads. It is my daily driver rain or shine and I usually take it out about 1-2 weekends a month to carve canyons in the mountains near Sacramento where I live. I would consider myself a very spirited driver. That’s why I bought a Boxster. I bought it in 2012 off Craig’s list for 10,500 from the 2nd owner. A fair deal at the time. The records show an engine replacement in 2004 by the original dealer at 46,000 miles with the 1st owner. I figured the IMS blew out, but not certain. I considered the engine replacement a good deal when I purchased it as the IMS issue had probably been dealt with. When I bought it, it seemed like near perfect shape. Very clean, no leaks, and ding free. The driver’s seat was showing wear, but the interior was otherwise near perfect. I flew to Southern California, drove the car, had a PPI done, it checked out and I drove it home. It had slotted and drilled rotors but original brakes. Unbelievably I have not had to change brake pads in 47k miles and they are still good. It needed an alignment and front tires which I replaced immediately. It came with a nice OEM car cover, plastic wind screen, but no headrest windscreens. It needed an alignment and front tires immediately. I received some maintenance documentation but not complete. Since I purchased the car I have completed all regularly scheduled maintenance, including belts and filters. I change the oil (Mobil 1 synthetic 5w40) and filter every 5000 miles. Early on I was very intimidated by working on a Porsche and had to go to the shop. Now I am much more confident and seem to be able to diagnose and fix almost anything. Furthermore, I now have a part time job working at a NAPA parts store so I can get parts very cheap.
So here’s my story:
1st year of ownership; 86000-98000 miles (12K miles)
• I-phone cable; rear speakers, magnetic oil, drain plug, front tires, alignment, RF wheel bearing, spark plugs, Battery,
• Total cost Parts; $1335.00; Labor; $673.00
2nd year of ownership; 98000-111000 (11K miles)
• Rear trunk shocks, license plate mounting bracket, rear tires and alignment, water pump, thermostat, serpentine belt, (did the work myself)
• air/oil separator, alternator, complete clutch failure, (replaced clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, clutch fork, dual mass flywheel, IMS bearing) Outside shop did all work
• Total cost Parts; $4502.48; Labor; $1473.14
3rd year of ownership; 111000-121000 (10K miles)
• Convertible top replacement; parking brake switch, purge valve, fender liner, several intermittent problems with temp gauge, erratic idle, parking brake switch
• Total cost Parts; $1176.38; Labor; $1430.84
4th year of ownership; 121000-132000 (11K miles)
• O2 sensor, both door latches, front and rear tires and alignment, used seats. Outside shop did the work, I installed the seats.
• Total cost Parts; $3121.83; Labor; $969.35
5th year of ownership; 132000-133000 (1K miles)
• Under body panels replaced, dip stick tube; I did the work.
• Total cost Parts; $596.52; Labor; $00.00
10-29-2016, 06:44 PM
#2
Burning Brakes
I look at your list and it looks like you have a relatively new top, clutch, seats, refreshed suspension, IMS, etc. I'd subtract tires costs, yes they wear on any car. And alignments, they do need touching up from time to time.
So you are comparing a well freshened car to one whose history you don't know as well. And planing on paying how much difference? I'd say $10k and that buys a lot of parts.
And while you have the new 987, the car will age to the point where miles and age will be an issue.
The 987 has improvements. Year to year differences here.
Either car could have major problems at any time, stuff happens. But financially you are better equipped to deal with it on your current car. Insurance should be cheaper too.
Of course if you just want to, the 987 is a nice car...
So you are comparing a well freshened car to one whose history you don't know as well. And planing on paying how much difference? I'd say $10k and that buys a lot of parts.
And while you have the new 987, the car will age to the point where miles and age will be an issue.
The 987 has improvements. Year to year differences here.
Either car could have major problems at any time, stuff happens. But financially you are better equipped to deal with it on your current car. Insurance should be cheaper too.
Of course if you just want to, the 987 is a nice car...
10-29-2016, 08:59 PM
#3
Race Director
About average. 'course, average is all over the map. Some cars have issues and others just run and run. But if you really drive the car consumables of course start to add up. Drive it enough and you'll be surprised what are consumables.
Generally the biggest cost of owning a car is depreciation. If you dump the 986 you take a depreciation hit on the 986 and then start the depreciation counter running with the 987.
One is generally better off just driving a car until it simply needs something way beyond reasonable. For instance a new engine. However, there are things one can do which can have the car back on the road for less than the cost of a new or professionally rebuilt engine.
FWIW my 2002 base Boxster has over 305K miles on it. Every time I take it in for something -- just got it back yesterday after having passenger door membrane replaced the original one was failing -- age -- and letting water collect in the door -- I think about just getting rid of it.
But the still car runs good. Still looks pretty good and everything still works. To really tip the scales towards keeping the car all I have to do is price a replacement. Not real excited about buying a used Boxster. Mine has been a real good car -- started out with it from new so I know how the car has been taken care of, driven, etc. -- and not wanting to roll the dice and hope I get a good used one.
A new one is too much money. And there are other cars to consider but agan I'd probably want to buy new and the cost of any car I'd really like to own is pretty high. About the least expensive car I'd own -- I think but have not yet test driven one -- is a Mini Cooper S. This is around a $30K car. There's insurance. Registration. I can keep my Boxster (and my other Porsche) on the road a long time for $30K.
Generally the biggest cost of owning a car is depreciation. If you dump the 986 you take a depreciation hit on the 986 and then start the depreciation counter running with the 987.
One is generally better off just driving a car until it simply needs something way beyond reasonable. For instance a new engine. However, there are things one can do which can have the car back on the road for less than the cost of a new or professionally rebuilt engine.
FWIW my 2002 base Boxster has over 305K miles on it. Every time I take it in for something -- just got it back yesterday after having passenger door membrane replaced the original one was failing -- age -- and letting water collect in the door -- I think about just getting rid of it.
But the still car runs good. Still looks pretty good and everything still works. To really tip the scales towards keeping the car all I have to do is price a replacement. Not real excited about buying a used Boxster. Mine has been a real good car -- started out with it from new so I know how the car has been taken care of, driven, etc. -- and not wanting to roll the dice and hope I get a good used one.
A new one is too much money. And there are other cars to consider but agan I'd probably want to buy new and the cost of any car I'd really like to own is pretty high. About the least expensive car I'd own -- I think but have not yet test driven one -- is a Mini Cooper S. This is around a $30K car. There's insurance. Registration. I can keep my Boxster (and my other Porsche) on the road a long time for $30K.
10-30-2016, 12:54 PM
#4
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Mike and Macster; You guys are great. Thanks for the straight up advice. I love my 986. I just didn't have anything to compare to. You guys are a great help.
10-30-2016, 04:16 PM
#5
Advanced
I was having similar thoughts to the OP but my upgrade idea heading into retirement was get a low mileage 04 S to replace my 130k km 01 base. The extra grunt would be nice and the glass window, lower mileage should help keep the mtce costs reasonable. But every time I look at the cost, + starting with a new car that I know nothing about, I say forget it and go for a drive. My fallback if the engine calves due to IMS or whatever is to get a used 3.2 or preferably 3.4 to make a project out of it. Or just put another cheap 2.7 in. Whatever it takes to keep the permagrin in place.
10-31-2016, 11:41 AM
#6
Race Director
I was having similar thoughts to the OP but my upgrade idea heading into retirement was get a low mileage 04 S to replace my 130k km 01 base. The extra grunt would be nice and the glass window, lower mileage should help keep the mtce costs reasonable. But every time I look at the cost, + starting with a new car that I know nothing about, I say forget it and go for a drive. My fallback if the engine calves due to IMS or whatever is to get a used 3.2 or preferably 3.4 to make a project out of it. Or just put another cheap 2.7 in. Whatever it takes to keep the permagrin in place.
While I often think about and even do some research on replacement car or cars and I can afford to buy pretty much what I want - well, the super exotics are really beyond my comfortable affordability range but I don't want one anyhow -- but do not want to make the decision to buy another car until or unless I'm forced too so I always come back to keeping the cars I have.
As long as the basic platform is sound I would have no problem replacing say the 5-speed transmission in my Boxster or possibly even the engine and along the lines you mentioned: A 3.2L out of an S, or a 3.6l out of a comparable MY 996, or even a 2.7l if I must. In fact, I could even price an engine from Porsche just to see what the cost is.
10-31-2016, 05:39 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
You don't want to price that engine ....
I kept my Boxster for 5 years into retirement, then after I moved from a two driveway home to a one car home I got tired juggling cars. At that point both my cars got sold and I replaced with a station wagon (gasp). Grandkids to the beach/mountains and trash to the recycler though I used to take the trash in the Boxster and would get a lot of looks from the ratty pickup drivers (yea, both the drivers and the trucks) when I popped both lids and pulled out the bags and boxes. I just wasn't using the Boxster any more than 500 miles a year. It was time. I have been fortunate to own 3 Porsches over my life. And 2 Alfa roadsters. I've often said the 2.5 '99 was more fun than the '01S 3.2.
Never even drove a later model. Sat in a 987, liked the room and interior design better. Roll hoops seemed to be placed away from my head better.
I kept my Boxster for 5 years into retirement, then after I moved from a two driveway home to a one car home I got tired juggling cars. At that point both my cars got sold and I replaced with a station wagon (gasp). Grandkids to the beach/mountains and trash to the recycler though I used to take the trash in the Boxster and would get a lot of looks from the ratty pickup drivers (yea, both the drivers and the trucks) when I popped both lids and pulled out the bags and boxes. I just wasn't using the Boxster any more than 500 miles a year. It was time. I have been fortunate to own 3 Porsches over my life. And 2 Alfa roadsters. I've often said the 2.5 '99 was more fun than the '01S 3.2.
Never even drove a later model. Sat in a 987, liked the room and interior design better. Roll hoops seemed to be placed away from my head better.
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11-01-2016, 05:56 AM
#8
Instructor
I have a 2003 986 S which I really love and maintain it with extreme care.
If I am to get another Boxster now, it would be a 987.2 2009 to 2012 year model.
I feel like I have done pretty much everything there is to do to maintain the M96 engine plateform and don't want to have to do it all again with the next Porsche... even with everything I have learn. My next Porsche will be 2009+ unless it's a Turbo/GT3 etc..
If I am to get another Boxster now, it would be a 987.2 2009 to 2012 year model.
I feel like I have done pretty much everything there is to do to maintain the M96 engine plateform and don't want to have to do it all again with the next Porsche... even with everything I have learn. My next Porsche will be 2009+ unless it's a Turbo/GT3 etc..