sjfehr

After years of not burning a drop of oil in my 2004 986S tip, I spotted dreaded oil drips under my car tonight, though it has likely been leaking for a while. Oil level's dropped to 1 bar above the bottom line on the dash readout, and dipstick reads about the same. I first noticed slightly low oil level a few weeks ago, but it didn't start to worry me until I saw the drips under the engine. Haven't decided whether I want to attempt to DIY this or throw a few grand at a shop. Before I spend a great deal of money/effort on this, is this classic RMS failure or are there other potential causes? I've noticed what feels like transmission issues, too; rougher than normal shifts. Haven't had the opportunity to check transmission fluid level, but I'm due for 90k maint in another month or so and was going to check it them.


I've maybe 120 miles of commuting left to do this year before christmas. I've heard RMS failures are more of a nuisance you can "get around to" as opposed to an emergency like IMS failure. So long as I watch the oil level, can I drive on this a few more days and then attack it over christmas?

Byprodriver

Possible IMS oil leak which is not good. You should remove oil filter A.S.A.P & inspect for metal particles in the filter. If no metal is found you will "probably" be ok to drive the 120 miles but I would drive with the radio off, better to err on the cautious side....

sjfehr

Can I remove the filter without all the oil gushing out?

hpjay

What I see is normal, real car. Hate to break it to you but this picture illustrates normal oil and road dirt build up for thousands of miles. This is not a sudden oil leak. I don't even see any evidence of an "oil drop in formation." How many miles do you have on the car?
If it doesn't leave a puddle on the floor overnight, it is not worth fixing until it is time to replace the clutch.
HJ

sjfehr

There's fresh wet oil all over the underchassis behind this point, and it's hard to see in the photo, but if you look at the high-res, you can see an oil drop drop-in-formation right in the center of this photo. It's lost about 1/4qt in the last 1-2 weeks (I took note, but didn't take notes. Shame on me!) Fresh drips on the concrete, too; it's never dripped so much as a drop before this. I didn't notice the drops until today when we pulled the car out to use a table saw; it's very rare that I'm in the garage when my car is not. There were about 10 small drops.

This car has 88k miles on it.


Here's what it looked like 10k miles ago:

Byprodriver

Yes, you will lose what is in the housing, (about 1/2 quart) look in the housing at the oil after removing filter to see if the oil looks metallic like a metalflake paint job.

sjfehr

Thanks; that's what I was thinking, but I wanted to make sure before I yank it and end up with a flood. I've never pulled it before without the oil already drained.

Byprodriver

If you see metal, either take pic's along with a dime so we can judge size, or go to 986forum.com & search for previous posts on this subject.

Macster

First you should add enough proper oil to bring the level at least a few bars above the 1 bar above the bottom.

As long at the engine is running ok, quiet (relatively speaking), the CEL is off, etc the engine is probably ok to drive. I've never heard about a sudden oil loss with a bad RMS.

With the Tip acting up though it might not be an engine oil leak, but a Tip fluid leak. Too bad you haven't checked the Tip fluid level so you'd know.

Tip fluid and engine oil though smell differently so you might be able to determine if the leak is from engine oil or Tip fluid/ATF.

If you believe the Tip is leaking then you should not drive the car.

sjfehr

I added a half quart of oil yesterday, bringing level up to halfway between the lines on the dipstick but haven't started the engine since then. The valves have been noisier than normal the past few months (especially when hot), but making ticking noises; I assumed it was because of lower than normal oil levels. I've never heard any noises that sounded like bad bearings. There were a few flakes in the filter 10k miles ago, but blackstone said there were no indications of IMS wear in the oil, and recommended changing the oil at 10k. That was 10k miles ago, though. I'm hesitant to check my filter right now, as I don't have a new filter yet (ordered it a few days ago) and need to get a new oil sample kit, too. I need to get to work on Monday, too, but would prefer not to risk grenading my engine in the process. I understand some IMS failures are sudden and occur without warning, but are leaking IMSs always noisy?

The oil drip does not appear to be a gusher; the only thing "sudden" is that I noticed it. There are about 10 or so drip marks on the garage floor under the engine, but I first noticed lower-than-normal oil level a few months ago. Because it's 10 drips and not 100 drips, I'm assuming the leak has recently gotten worse. It doesn't smell like 8-year old/90k ATF, so I don't think the tip is leaking, just full of old ATF. No CEL.

I've had a (probably unrelated) issue where the engine hunts a bit during at low-rpm/high-torque, like while driving slow steady speeds uphill in a high gear. Idle is smooth and no issues at higher rpm. Cleaning the throttle body didn't fix it; I suspect a vacuum leak (got a few likely suspects suspects) and was going to troubleshoot more during the 90k maint, but I mention it just in case it's related.

Macster

My experience is the oil level -- from the min level to the max level (and once in the Boxster over the max level) -- has no effect on the engine's noise output.

My reading comprehension is sometimes not the best but I could gather from your post that the oil has 20K miles on it?

If so that can account for the increase in valve clatter.

What I have observed over the years is the only thing that has any impact on the engine's noise output is replacing used oil -- used in the sense it has been in service 5K miles -- with fresh oil. (5K miles on the oil has been the rule since I bought my 02 Boxster back in 02.)

I do not really note any difference in switching from 0w-40 to 5w-50 (not a typo for 15w-50) or back again.

Old oil out. New oil in. Engine is quieter. Not lots to be sure but enough difference I make a mental note of it.

Even if you have run the oil just 10K miles (and not the 20K miles I opened with) depending upon various factors in your car's case you might be running the oil a few thousand miles too long.

There is no way I know of to differentiate between a leaking RMS or a leaking IMS end plate. In fact when I had my car in for a suspected leaking RMS the dealer replaced both the RMS and the IMS end plate/bolts (but of course not the IMSB) because of their proximity to each other there was no way to tell which one was leaking. The new IMS end plate had a better seal and came with 3 micro-encapsulated bolts. Since the RMS/IMS end plate/bolts were replaced back in July of 02 the RMS/IMS area has remained free of oil leak sign.

For the engine behavior that can arise from a bad AOS (bad but not (yet) horribly bad).

I'm not a fan of venturing out in a car that is exhibiting issues from the engine or drive train or running gear.

I hate breakdowns on the road. (Also they can be dangerous. Yesterday in this area a car pulled over on the shoulder of the road (I-280) so the driver could I guess deal with a tire problem. Another vehicle heading the same direction veered over and ran into the back of the parked car. 3 people in the parked car were killed. The driver of the vehicle that hit the parked car suffered minor injuries.)

Not only do I hate breakdowns I am always concerned about doing more harm.

If (big if) the leak is coming from the IMS and is an early precursor of pending IMSB trouble -- just saying -- continuing to drive the car, even run the engine risks further harm to the engine.

sjfehr

It's just 10k, lol- thought the photo of the oil draining with the caption "this was 10k miles ago" gave that away I've been doing oil analysis with blackstone, so I know quantitatively that the oil is OK at this run interval for this car and the way I drive it. I was planning on changing the oil this Friday, but that's OBE at this point.

I went ahead and just pulled the filter- it's clean! Ran magnets all over it and got ziltch. I didn't have a spare filter so wasn't able to tear it completely apart, but it's not coated in confetti, that's for sure. The bright spots are reflection off oil drops, not metal- they're not there when viewed with a flashlight. I ran magnets over a good part of the surface just to err on the side of caution, and didn't pick up anything. If the IMS was wearing down enough to leak, I'd expect to see confetti. So, all signs at this point are that it's RMS, not IMS.

TroyN

The underside looked seepy even in your 10k-mile-ago shot so looks like it's not a new occurrence. Of course it could just be the photo. If it's just RMS I wouldn't worry much about it, since with a Tip you don't even have the excuse of needing to change the clutch.

sjfehr

Is the RMS leaking really that little of a deal that I can drive indefinitely on it, just topping off the oil? I know it isn't an immediate-emergency, but still...

Honestly, now is the best time this could happen, as I can more easily part with my car for 2 weeks than at any other point in the year. Just hope the shops are open over christmas...

Macster

RMS leak is not a big deal. My 02 left a spot on the garage floor and I took the car to a dealer and asked about the RMS leak. I would have preferred to arrange to get the car in right away but the SM told me the service department was very busy and besides the parts would have to be ordered anyway. I had a vacation (road trip) scheduled and I asked the dealer about driving the car and he said he never knew of an RMS leak getting severe.

course this was back in they day before IMS bearing issues were unknown. But the car was under warranty still back then.

Parts were ordered and a tentative appointment made to bring the car in for this repair as I decided to drive the car and drove it nearly 8Kmiles over the span of 2 weeks hammering down through the great emptiness of eastern Oregon, and the high heat of AZ without any problems.

Back from the trip the RMS/IMS end plate/bolts were replaced and all was well again.

So your car should be ok to continue to drive if you're sure the RMS I leaking and nothing else.

As always you should keep an eye on the oil level just in case and if the engine starts making noises that's it shut 'er down, but if you're convinced the leak is just an RMS then continuing to drive the car should be ok.