Oil Cooler
12-07-2011, 02:37 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Oil Cooler
I'm considering selling my RSR and moving towards running my Boxster S
as my track car that I can drive to/from events.
I've come to the conclusion that keeping the oil cool(er) is
one of the best ways to help tracked engines.
Has anyone added an oil cooler to the car?
If so == where did you connect it in and where did you put it?
I don't think an accusump alone is sufficient.
thanks,
mike
as my track car that I can drive to/from events.
I've come to the conclusion that keeping the oil cool(er) is
one of the best ways to help tracked engines.
Has anyone added an oil cooler to the car?
If so == where did you connect it in and where did you put it?
I don't think an accusump alone is sufficient.
thanks,
mike
12-07-2011, 04:20 PM
#2
Race Director
I'm considering selling my RSR and moving towards running my Boxster S
as my track car that I can drive to/from events.
I've come to the conclusion that keeping the oil cool(er) is
one of the best ways to help tracked engines.
Has anyone added an oil cooler to the car?
If so == where did you connect it in and where did you put it?
I don't think an accusump alone is sufficient.
thanks,
mike
as my track car that I can drive to/from events.
I've come to the conclusion that keeping the oil cool(er) is
one of the best ways to help tracked engines.
Has anyone added an oil cooler to the car?
If so == where did you connect it in and where did you put it?
I don't think an accusump alone is sufficient.
thanks,
mike
Have you monitored oil temperature (and coolant temperature) while driving the car on the track?
If you do, I suspect you'll find the temps are reasonable. When I have found my 02's coolant temp getting high is not during a hard drive, but afterwards if I (on purpose to test something) pull over to the side of the road and let the engine idle.
If the car keeps moving the coolant temp stays rather low.
If you want the coolant to run a bit cooler (and thus the oil to run cooler as well) arrange to have the radiator fans run all the time, on low speed, but still making sure they can switch/run at high speed if the coolant temp climbs to whatever the high fan speed trigger temp is (216F IIRC).
Sincerely,
Macster.
12-07-2011, 06:29 PM
#3
Racer
I seem to remember this question being asked a while ago.....
I think that the space limitations in the engine compartment is very limited when it comes to air flow and if you mount the cooler in the airstream (say at the front of the car) the pressure drop of the oil would be too much. By the time you pumped the oil to the front, through the cooler and back again, you wouldn't have any oil pressure at the engine.
I think that the space limitations in the engine compartment is very limited when it comes to air flow and if you mount the cooler in the airstream (say at the front of the car) the pressure drop of the oil would be too much. By the time you pumped the oil to the front, through the cooler and back again, you wouldn't have any oil pressure at the engine.
12-08-2011, 11:48 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lesa, Italy & Atlanta, GA
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agree w/ harry.
ALL boxsters already have an oil cooler. it is an oil to water type head exchanger.
the upgrade to the base boxster is to add the 'S' oil cooler, which is the same as the one in the 996. at that point, the trick to keeping oil temps down is keeping water temps down. this is accomplished with a center radiator, which the 'S' model already has.....
ALL boxsters already have an oil cooler. it is an oil to water type head exchanger.
the upgrade to the base boxster is to add the 'S' oil cooler, which is the same as the one in the 996. at that point, the trick to keeping oil temps down is keeping water temps down. this is accomplished with a center radiator, which the 'S' model already has.....
12-08-2011, 12:13 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
LOL. I think Mike knows his Porsches.
I'm pretty sure he's asking about an external oil cooler.
If you track the car you'll know the oil cooler is a weak point on the car. (below from LNE)
"Did you know your oil temperatures can get up to 270-280F in a 25 minute DE session on an 80F day? The stock oil to water heat exchanger on the top of your engine does a great job at warming the oil fast, but it doesn't do a good job cooling your oil. The LN Engineering External Oil Cooler Adapter (Delete) eliminates the factory heat exchanger and allows you to plumb an external oil cooler properly"
I'm pretty sure he's asking about an external oil cooler.
If you track the car you'll know the oil cooler is a weak point on the car. (below from LNE)
"Did you know your oil temperatures can get up to 270-280F in a 25 minute DE session on an 80F day? The stock oil to water heat exchanger on the top of your engine does a great job at warming the oil fast, but it doesn't do a good job cooling your oil. The LN Engineering External Oil Cooler Adapter (Delete) eliminates the factory heat exchanger and allows you to plumb an external oil cooler properly"
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12-08-2011, 12:27 PM
#8
Skunk Whisperer
Rennlist Member
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agree w/ harry.
ALL boxsters already have an oil cooler. it is an oil to water type head exchanger.
the upgrade to the base boxster is to add the 'S' oil cooler, which is the same as the one in the 996. at that point, the trick to keeping oil temps down is keeping water temps down. this is accomplished with a center radiator, which the 'S' model already has.....
ALL boxsters already have an oil cooler. it is an oil to water type head exchanger.
the upgrade to the base boxster is to add the 'S' oil cooler, which is the same as the one in the 996. at that point, the trick to keeping oil temps down is keeping water temps down. this is accomplished with a center radiator, which the 'S' model already has.....
12-08-2011, 01:26 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
12-08-2011, 02:09 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
Well I'm not a Boxster expert - I do know quite a bit about them.
I have gutted two of them (and put one back together)
I do know what the M96 engine looks like
and I have worked on numerous rebuilds. I'm a EE who recently started moon lighting as
a shade tree mechanic at best
but the Boxster engine was the first engine I ever touched.
I just haven't tracked my Boxsters (I have owned or currently own 6 of them, plus
a 996 thrown in there every now and then).
However I'm thinking of moving away from a true race car for DE purposes
I'm tired of doing Test and Tunes when I should be DE'ing -- and like the
idea of driving to/from the event.
I've got the 924S/944 for ChumpRacing for that end of the "fix"
I like the DE's for coaching and learning.
I do agree that the front radiator idea is a long shot -- but
once pressurized in a closed system -- shouldn't the pressure be the
same throughout?
There is the issue of whether the pump can push all that amount of OIL?
My RSR has 25 QTs, with a dry sump and oil cooler in front -- and I'm pretty
sure the only oil pump is inside the stock 964 motor.
Now to be fair the 964 is designed to run with a front engine dry sump.
In my case I'll be running a Boxster S -- so I already have the front center radiator.
I was thinking of maybe putting a oil cooler or two in the rear bumper -- if there is room.
I'll have to study the layout.
I already have an adapter for the accusump from LNE -- but I'm not sure if that has one or
two AN connections. -- it might already be a simple T with a built in check valve
I don't remember.
Mike
I have gutted two of them (and put one back together)
I do know what the M96 engine looks like
and I have worked on numerous rebuilds. I'm a EE who recently started moon lighting as
a shade tree mechanic at best
but the Boxster engine was the first engine I ever touched.
I just haven't tracked my Boxsters (I have owned or currently own 6 of them, plus
a 996 thrown in there every now and then).
However I'm thinking of moving away from a true race car for DE purposes
I'm tired of doing Test and Tunes when I should be DE'ing -- and like the
idea of driving to/from the event.
I've got the 924S/944 for ChumpRacing for that end of the "fix"
I like the DE's for coaching and learning.
I do agree that the front radiator idea is a long shot -- but
once pressurized in a closed system -- shouldn't the pressure be the
same throughout?
There is the issue of whether the pump can push all that amount of OIL?
My RSR has 25 QTs, with a dry sump and oil cooler in front -- and I'm pretty
sure the only oil pump is inside the stock 964 motor.
Now to be fair the 964 is designed to run with a front engine dry sump.
In my case I'll be running a Boxster S -- so I already have the front center radiator.
I was thinking of maybe putting a oil cooler or two in the rear bumper -- if there is room.
I'll have to study the layout.
I already have an adapter for the accusump from LNE -- but I'm not sure if that has one or
two AN connections. -- it might already be a simple T with a built in check valve
I don't remember.
Mike
12-08-2011, 03:17 PM
#12
Race Director
Well I'm not a Boxster expert - I do know quite a bit about them.
I have gutted two of them (and put one back together)
I do know what the M96 engine looks like
and I have worked on numerous rebuilds. I'm a EE who recently started moon lighting as
a shade tree mechanic at best
but the Boxster engine was the first engine I ever touched.
I just haven't tracked my Boxsters (I have owned or currently own 6 of them, plus
a 996 thrown in there every now and then).
However I'm thinking of moving away from a true race car for DE purposes
I'm tired of doing Test and Tunes when I should be DE'ing -- and like the
idea of driving to/from the event.
I've got the 924S/944 for ChumpRacing for that end of the "fix"
I like the DE's for coaching and learning.
I do agree that the front radiator idea is a long shot -- but
once pressurized in a closed system -- shouldn't the pressure be the
same throughout?
There is the issue of whether the pump can push all that amount of OIL?
My RSR has 25 QTs, with a dry sump and oil cooler in front -- and I'm pretty
sure the only oil pump is inside the stock 964 motor.
Now to be fair the 964 is designed to run with a front engine dry sump.
In my case I'll be running a Boxster S -- so I already have the front center radiator.
I was thinking of maybe putting a oil cooler or two in the rear bumper -- if there is room.
I'll have to study the layout.
I already have an adapter for the accusump from LNE -- but I'm not sure if that has one or
two AN connections. -- it might already be a simple T with a built in check valve
I don't remember.
Mike
I have gutted two of them (and put one back together)
I do know what the M96 engine looks like
and I have worked on numerous rebuilds. I'm a EE who recently started moon lighting as
a shade tree mechanic at best
but the Boxster engine was the first engine I ever touched.
I just haven't tracked my Boxsters (I have owned or currently own 6 of them, plus
a 996 thrown in there every now and then).
However I'm thinking of moving away from a true race car for DE purposes
I'm tired of doing Test and Tunes when I should be DE'ing -- and like the
idea of driving to/from the event.
I've got the 924S/944 for ChumpRacing for that end of the "fix"
I like the DE's for coaching and learning.
I do agree that the front radiator idea is a long shot -- but
once pressurized in a closed system -- shouldn't the pressure be the
same throughout?
There is the issue of whether the pump can push all that amount of OIL?
My RSR has 25 QTs, with a dry sump and oil cooler in front -- and I'm pretty
sure the only oil pump is inside the stock 964 motor.
Now to be fair the 964 is designed to run with a front engine dry sump.
In my case I'll be running a Boxster S -- so I already have the front center radiator.
I was thinking of maybe putting a oil cooler or two in the rear bumper -- if there is room.
I'll have to study the layout.
I already have an adapter for the accusump from LNE -- but I'm not sure if that has one or
two AN connections. -- it might already be a simple T with a built in check valve
I don't remember.
Mike
Co-worker here at the office has a 914 with a 993 engine installed and it has huge oil/air coolers. So much so that the coolers along with the oil lines has nearly doubled the oil capacity to a bit over 16 quarts.
If you want to install an oil cooler I would think the best place would be in the front ahead of the radiators. There is I believe plenty of room to run the 'huge' oil lines in the car's central tunnel, though you'll have to determine this is a fact and not rely upon my eye/opinion.
As long as the lines are large enough and have no tight turns (an 90 deg. turn is the same as I forget how many feet of straight pipe but it is alot!) the engine should not suffer any oiling issues but of course it is up to you to verify this is the case.
I believe based on what Bruce Anderson has said on this oil cooler question for other (oil/air cooled) engines you probably want to run a thermostat to avoid overcooling the oil. And it probably would be a good idea to install a proper oil pressure gage and an oil temp gage to better monitor the condition of the lifeblood of the engine.
Sincerely,
Macster.
12-08-2011, 07:09 PM
#13
Racer
When pumping anything, the flow will be restricted by internal friction of the fluid against the surface of (in this case) the pipework. Even more so if there are any sharp bends in the circuit.
TX - if you have done electrical engineering (E/E I assume?), think of it as voltage drop over a long distance - the conductor material offers its own internal resistance to the voltage.
The total quantity of oil in the sump + system should generally not have any influence on the pressure.
I would be very wary of trying to pump oil +/- 7 or 8 metres to the front and back, the cooler pipework and lubricate the internals of the engine without at least upgrading the oil pump(s).
Only an on line test with a mechanical oil pressure guage in the engine block will give you an idea of what the final pressures are.
TX - if you have done electrical engineering (E/E I assume?), think of it as voltage drop over a long distance - the conductor material offers its own internal resistance to the voltage.
The total quantity of oil in the sump + system should generally not have any influence on the pressure.
I would be very wary of trying to pump oil +/- 7 or 8 metres to the front and back, the cooler pipework and lubricate the internals of the engine without at least upgrading the oil pump(s).
Only an on line test with a mechanical oil pressure guage in the engine block will give you an idea of what the final pressures are.
12-09-2011, 01:18 AM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
Good analogy -- makes perfect sense.
You might start at 5 bar -- but after parasitics losses -- the best you might be able to effectively
have is 4 bar max -- I get it.
I'm thinking about something in the rear end -- should cut the routing losses down.
What might be pretty cool is to have some sort of quick connect/disconnect
and mount to top of rear trunk -- so that you could have it for the track -- but remove
it for normal street use.
Might be too much to ask -- but interesting compromise thought.
Mike
You might start at 5 bar -- but after parasitics losses -- the best you might be able to effectively
have is 4 bar max -- I get it.
I'm thinking about something in the rear end -- should cut the routing losses down.
What might be pretty cool is to have some sort of quick connect/disconnect
and mount to top of rear trunk -- so that you could have it for the track -- but remove
it for normal street use.
Might be too much to ask -- but interesting compromise thought.
Mike
12-10-2011, 09:55 AM
#15
Race Director
Good analogy -- makes perfect sense.
You might start at 5 bar -- but after parasitics losses -- the best you might be able to effectively
have is 4 bar max -- I get it.
I'm thinking about something in the rear end -- should cut the routing losses down.
What might be pretty cool is to have some sort of quick connect/disconnect
and mount to top of rear trunk -- so that you could have it for the track -- but remove
it for normal street use.
Might be too much to ask -- but interesting compromise thought.
Mike
You might start at 5 bar -- but after parasitics losses -- the best you might be able to effectively
have is 4 bar max -- I get it.
I'm thinking about something in the rear end -- should cut the routing losses down.
What might be pretty cool is to have some sort of quick connect/disconnect
and mount to top of rear trunk -- so that you could have it for the track -- but remove
it for normal street use.
Might be too much to ask -- but interesting compromise thought.
Mike
If you select the piping size and fitting geometry intelligently the losses should not be enough to cause any problems so there's no reason why you can't mount the cooler at a more optimum location.
As for an oil cooler with quick disconnects... the fewer connections in an oil line the better. There's the risk a quick disconnect comes loose (because it was not latched properly) and the engine suffers a major oil leak.
There is also the issue of possibly introducing air or air pockets in the oil system. While these will be removed when the oil starts to flow it just runs the risk of the engine having an interruption, probably brief but an interruption nonetheless, in its oil flow.
If you install an oil cooler that is worthy of the name there's no reason to allow it for being quick disconnected.
Sincerely,
Macster.