Non-Virgin New Boxster owner questions
02-08-2011, 02:00 AM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Non-Virgin New Boxster owner questions
Thanks guys, I guess I could drive to the other side of the island during the daylight and ask at the Porsche dealer. But driving at night with the top down is much more fun and they are always closed at night.
1. What is the proper procedure for starting a Boxster?
Whenever it cranks it starts, but it does not crank when the key is first turned unless I wait. I don’t know what the combination is, or what it is suppose to be?
I had a Porsche before but this is my first Boxster, next one will be an S. Do you have to turn the key and wait?
The clutch is down this is a standard 1997. What am I waiting for, how long do you have to wait for it to crank?
Do you have to turn the key completely off before you try again?
I could not find this in the owner’s manual. It seems like every time I have to do something different to get it to start.
2. After a hard run there is something like a radiator cap blowing steam from the right front, behind the petrol inlet. Is there a pressure release for something in there somewhere?
3. Is there a way to manually lock the doors from the inside?
4. What will cause the clock to run slow?
1. What is the proper procedure for starting a Boxster?
Whenever it cranks it starts, but it does not crank when the key is first turned unless I wait. I don’t know what the combination is, or what it is suppose to be?
I had a Porsche before but this is my first Boxster, next one will be an S. Do you have to turn the key and wait?
The clutch is down this is a standard 1997. What am I waiting for, how long do you have to wait for it to crank?
Do you have to turn the key completely off before you try again?
I could not find this in the owner’s manual. It seems like every time I have to do something different to get it to start.
2. After a hard run there is something like a radiator cap blowing steam from the right front, behind the petrol inlet. Is there a pressure release for something in there somewhere?
3. Is there a way to manually lock the doors from the inside?
4. What will cause the clock to run slow?
02-08-2011, 03:51 PM
#2
Race Director
Thanks guys, I guess I could drive to the other side of the island during the daylight and ask at the Porsche dealer. But driving at night with the top down is much more fun and they are always closed at night.
1. What is the proper procedure for starting a Boxster?
Whenever it cranks it starts, but it does not crank when the key is first turned unless I wait. I don’t know what the combination is, or what it is suppose to be?
I had a Porsche before but this is my first Boxster, next one will be an S. Do you have to turn the key and wait?
The clutch is down this is a standard 1997. What am I waiting for, how long do you have to wait for it to crank?
Do you have to turn the key completely off before you try again?
I could not find this in the owner’s manual. It seems like every time I have to do something different to get it to start.
2. After a hard run there is something like a radiator cap blowing steam from the right front, behind the petrol inlet. Is there a pressure release for something in there somewhere?
3. Is there a way to manually lock the doors from the inside?
4. What will cause the clock to run slow?
1. What is the proper procedure for starting a Boxster?
Whenever it cranks it starts, but it does not crank when the key is first turned unless I wait. I don’t know what the combination is, or what it is suppose to be?
I had a Porsche before but this is my first Boxster, next one will be an S. Do you have to turn the key and wait?
The clutch is down this is a standard 1997. What am I waiting for, how long do you have to wait for it to crank?
Do you have to turn the key completely off before you try again?
I could not find this in the owner’s manual. It seems like every time I have to do something different to get it to start.
2. After a hard run there is something like a radiator cap blowing steam from the right front, behind the petrol inlet. Is there a pressure release for something in there somewhere?
3. Is there a way to manually lock the doors from the inside?
4. What will cause the clock to run slow?
Sometimes while turning the key to its engine start position I inadvertently press one of the key fob's buttons which interferes with the RFID exchange and the engine will not crank. Then the proper steps are to turn the key to the off position and I wait the count of 2 or so then attempt a start. But the start occurs almost instaneously.
If you do not have the clutch pedal depressed completely, the same steps above apply except that before you turn the key to the engine start position after letting it remain in the off positon a count or 2 is to of course make sure you fully depress the clutch pedal.
There is no radiator cap at the front of the car. There is a radiator at each front corner located just ahead of the front wheel (though buried deep in the bumper cover behind the A/C condensor). Coolant lines run from the rear of the car to the radiators and back again. A radiator probably has a hole in it. They can suffer from corrosion due to the amount of trash that collects in the radiator air ducting this trash tends to attract/hold moisture. Or if one pulls in too far into a parking spot with a high curb the bottom of the radiator can get damaged and leak. The radiators are a bit at risk due to their location and relatively low height above the road surface.
You need to get the source of that steam/vapor located and fixed. The engine's cooling system can't hold pressure and pressure is what keeps teh coolant from flashing to steam. If it does this steam pockets can form in the engine's hottest coolant passages and localized overheating can occur. The engine can be seriously damaged if this occurs.
BTW, the coolant cap at the reservior tank can leak. If the cap''s part number (s/b visible on the cap) ends in 00 or 01 you might want to consider replacing the cap with a new one that has a part number that ends with an 02 or 03 or even 04. Change the cap with the engine cold. And while you're there check the coolant level is between the min/max lines. And don't be fooled by cooant stains on the tank. Shake the car or have some shake the car and see the coolant level moving about on the side of the tank, or remove the screen and with a bright light peer down into the tank to confirm the level is right.
IIRC there's a door lock button on the dash, center of the dash. Should have a key emblem on the button.
The clock is driven by a 32KHz (watch) oscilater and while these are generally fairly accurate they can have some frequency error, in short go bad. This error accounts for the clock drift.
I have found that in some cars setting the clock 1 or 2 minutes fast helps cause for some reason even though I take the clock out of its setting mode, the clock may not resume running for 1 or 2 minutes.
Also, be sure you trust the time source you use to check the in-dash clock's accuracy. The in-dash clock may be quite accurate but the device you're using to check its time may be the device that can't keep time. Time announcements from radio stations are not that accurate nor are public time displays. I use either my cell phone -- which picks up a time signal from a cell tower or wehn out of cell phone coverage I use my Garmin NAV unit's time display to set the car's in-dash clock.
Sincerely,
Macster.
02-08-2011, 06:36 PM
#3
Drifting
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It could be possible that your ignition switch is failing. It is a known issue on these cars and can cause a myriad of issues. I'm not saying it is your problem.. just that it could be the issue.
02-08-2011, 10:14 PM
#4
Instructor
Thread Starter
Switch
That was my first thought. Do you know where I can see a list of the symptoms on the ignition switch. This car does not turn over slower and slower. Anytime it cranks it fires up healthy, so the starter and battery might be OK. Maybe it is the switch. Is there something about a Porsche that I have to be afraid of?
If it is not broke, I sure do not want to replace it. These things pi_s me off, can I just use a jumper, or install an old time starter button for 50 cents, to bypass the solenoid and ignition circuit to start the car?
On my other middies it would have been the starter for sure. I would replace it and not give it another thought. On the Porsche 914, Fiat X/9 and the Fiero SE, the engines were originally designed for cars that had long exhausts pipes. The pipes went away from the engine and the starter motor, which was usually on the side away from the exhaust. But when they put the engines in the middle, and made Spaghetti out of the exhaust pipes. They got piled on top of the starters. It was no problem to cook out the grease, the motors would get too hot, and fail. No amount of shielding seemed to help. You could not use rebuilt starters because they would rebuild using the old shafts. The Boxster should not have this problem with the starter on top and the exhaust underneath.
If it is not broke, I sure do not want to replace it. These things pi_s me off, can I just use a jumper, or install an old time starter button for 50 cents, to bypass the solenoid and ignition circuit to start the car?
On my other middies it would have been the starter for sure. I would replace it and not give it another thought. On the Porsche 914, Fiat X/9 and the Fiero SE, the engines were originally designed for cars that had long exhausts pipes. The pipes went away from the engine and the starter motor, which was usually on the side away from the exhaust. But when they put the engines in the middle, and made Spaghetti out of the exhaust pipes. They got piled on top of the starters. It was no problem to cook out the grease, the motors would get too hot, and fail. No amount of shielding seemed to help. You could not use rebuilt starters because they would rebuild using the old shafts. The Boxster should not have this problem with the starter on top and the exhaust underneath.
Last edited by Sumflow; 02-09-2011 at 01:50 AM. Reason: Took a drive to think it over.
02-09-2011, 02:09 AM
#5
Instructor
Thread Starter
Clock
If that is the only way, I may have more serious problems. The previous owner stuck some cd player in the dash. He may have shorted something or left it undone. The clock lost an hour in a day. I was thinking there should have been a way to manually lock the doors from the inside.
02-09-2011, 11:58 AM
#6
Drifting
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The swith itself is like an $8 part (or less?). Since all the electrics flow through there, and you are having intermittant starting issues, I would consider that the first item to consider replacing.
02-09-2011, 02:55 PM
#7
Race Director
That was my first thought. Do you know where I can see a list of the symptoms on the ignition switch. This car does not turn over slower and slower. Anytime it cranks it fires up healthy, so the starter and battery might be OK. Maybe it is the switch. Is there something about a Porsche that I have to be afraid of?
If it is not broke, I sure do not want to replace it. These things pi_s me off, can I just use a jumper, or install an old time starter button for 50 cents, to bypass the solenoid and ignition circuit to start the car?
On my other middies it would have been the starter for sure. I would replace it and not give it another thought. On the Porsche 914, Fiat X/9 and the Fiero SE, the engines were originally designed for cars that had long exhausts pipes. The pipes went away from the engine and the starter motor, which was usually on the side away from the exhaust. But when they put the engines in the middle, and made Spaghetti out of the exhaust pipes. They got piled on top of the starters. It was no problem to cook out the grease, the motors would get too hot, and fail. No amount of shielding seemed to help. You could not use rebuilt starters because they would rebuild using the old shafts. The Boxster should not have this problem with the starter on top and the exhaust underneath.
If it is not broke, I sure do not want to replace it. These things pi_s me off, can I just use a jumper, or install an old time starter button for 50 cents, to bypass the solenoid and ignition circuit to start the car?
On my other middies it would have been the starter for sure. I would replace it and not give it another thought. On the Porsche 914, Fiat X/9 and the Fiero SE, the engines were originally designed for cars that had long exhausts pipes. The pipes went away from the engine and the starter motor, which was usually on the side away from the exhaust. But when they put the engines in the middle, and made Spaghetti out of the exhaust pipes. They got piled on top of the starters. It was no problem to cook out the grease, the motors would get too hot, and fail. No amount of shielding seemed to help. You could not use rebuilt starters because they would rebuild using the old shafts. The Boxster should not have this problem with the starter on top and the exhaust underneath.
However, slow cranking does not come to mind as being an ignition switch symptom. It is more a sign the starter motor may be on its way out. Or the wiring to/from the starter motor is in poor shape. The starter requires a lot of power, current, and the wiring/connectors that carry this to/from the starter need to be in top shape.
I do know I had my 02 Boxster's ignition switched replaced cause the engine would refuse to crank. I took it to a dealer and the tech was not able to reproduce the symptom but I went ahead and had him replace the entire switch. Porsche no longer supports replacing just the electrical portion (that is at the back end of the assembly) cause of too many come backs.
The tech replaced the switch and told me that it didn't look too bad at all. The no start symptom did not return for a while but came back more than once. I know suspect the problem is an intermittent clutch interlock switch even though I replaced this too. I will replace this switch once more when I get the time.
The Boxster starting circuit/system is a very sophisticated system that requires RFID RF exchanges between the RFID pill in the key module and the security transceiver in the dash. Almost certainly by trying to fit some sort of crude starter bypass you'd make the car's starting less reliable than it is right now. There's something wrong and there's no need to redo/redesign the car's starting system to fix it.
Anytime someome's been at the car's dash to add stereo or something similar that has to be suspect #1 whenever there are any electrical issues.
My advise would be to have the car examined by a good car electrics shop to verify the aftermarket dash mods are not the source of the problem. This involves ensuring the wiring is properly connected, that no wiring got pinched, or that a wiring harness is not flopping about and has worn through its insulation, and so on.
Or if you are up to it you can do this check out yourself.
The Porsche is just a car and its various systems can fall prey to the same ills that effect other cars. Overall the car's reliability appears to be good, better than most other cars. But anytime a car's been at by someone who may not know what they're doing all bets are off.
Sincerely,
Macster.
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02-10-2011, 07:00 AM
#9
Instructor
Thread Starter
Starting combination
Thank you, you have all been very helpful. I have more confidence as a result and have tried a few things. In the last century when I turned the key in a car, I expected it to start just like a light switch turns on a light. On the Boxster when nothing happened immediately I would turn the switch off and try again. Maybe the problem is my turning it off to soon. Maybe I am using the wrong starting combination.
The electrical dash and stuff come on instantly; I just have to wait for the starter. Now I just turn the switch to all the way clockwise and wait with the clutch to the floor, 3-2-1 as soon as it cranks, it cranks fast and starts right away. I never had a car before that after you turn the key you have to hold it while it builds up whatever, like a nuclear submarine before it bursts into life. If it gets any worse I’ll have an electric guy get in there like you suggest.
The switch was my first thought. Perhaps it is not completing all its connections?
Online sources tell me the failure can show up in any number of ways. The car can refuse to start some of the time, the key may not turn too easily in the ignition, or strange electrical problems may appear.
In my case the car always starts easily, the key feels normal, and I do not know if it is the car, or my operation of it that is causing the problem. Which is why I asked.
Seeing how the reliability of OEM parts is all over the map. How do you know that you are not pulling out a 200,000-mile switch and replacing it with a 30,000-mile switch. The basic rule is not "replace it if it is cheap," but http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/i...nt-fix-it.html "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That’s the difference between a mechanic and an engineer. Fixing things that aren't broken, and not fixing things that are broken." What makes you think the part that you are putting in is any better than the part that you are taking out? Thanks Sjfehr, I will check, but I do not understand how that fits these symptoms. After a delay it cranks and starts fine. How could not getting enough juice be causing the delay?
My first thought was that maybe the Boxster was programmed did not crank until the pressure reached a certain level of something. But no one has mentioned that.
Could be that, but it seems so consistent. The pedal is motionless against the floor but since I tried just holding the key in starter position it always has a lag before it cranks. If it comes down to that I will just tie off the clutch switch with a snap-tie.
For sure an known area for me. The immobiliser is another unknown. And these security keys may have a hand in it.
Well thank you. For now I am just trying to find out where norm is suppose to be.
The electrical dash and stuff come on instantly; I just have to wait for the starter. Now I just turn the switch to all the way clockwise and wait with the clutch to the floor, 3-2-1 as soon as it cranks, it cranks fast and starts right away. I never had a car before that after you turn the key you have to hold it while it builds up whatever, like a nuclear submarine before it bursts into life. If it gets any worse I’ll have an electric guy get in there like you suggest.
Online sources tell me the failure can show up in any number of ways. The car can refuse to start some of the time, the key may not turn too easily in the ignition, or strange electrical problems may appear.
In my case the car always starts easily, the key feels normal, and I do not know if it is the car, or my operation of it that is causing the problem. Which is why I asked.
Seeing how the reliability of OEM parts is all over the map. How do you know that you are not pulling out a 200,000-mile switch and replacing it with a 30,000-mile switch. The basic rule is not "replace it if it is cheap," but http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/i...nt-fix-it.html "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." That’s the difference between a mechanic and an engineer. Fixing things that aren't broken, and not fixing things that are broken." What makes you think the part that you are putting in is any better than the part that you are taking out? Thanks Sjfehr, I will check, but I do not understand how that fits these symptoms. After a delay it cranks and starts fine. How could not getting enough juice be causing the delay?
My first thought was that maybe the Boxster was programmed did not crank until the pressure reached a certain level of something. But no one has mentioned that.
I now suspect the problem is an intermittent clutch interlock switch
..the security transceiver in the dash.
..anytime a car's been at by someone..
02-10-2011, 05:00 PM
#10
Race Director
The delay may (WAG) be due to a slow to respond RFID pill that takes more time/needs more time, more RF energy, to have enough energy to respond with its RFID.
Briefly, when the key is turned a transceiver in the dash located very near the key emits a RF burst of energy. This is received by the RFID pill in the key head module. This burst of energy is used to power the RFID pill's electrical/RF systems and the result is a security code is transmitted via RF back to the transceiver in the dash. This code is then compared to known codes in the list of codes and if it is recognized the starter circuit is allowed to crank the engine.
You can test the car's behavior be removing the RFID pill from the key module and with no other keys in your pocket or in the car try to start the engine with no RFID pill near the dash.
Or you can try another key with (possibly) a fresher/more energetic, quicker responding RFID pill.
One possible failure mode of the clutch switch is that it doesn't close (or open) immediately everytime the clutch pedal is depressed, that there is some delay, intermittently so. The failure isn't a hard failure which would make id'ing the switch the as the source of the problem easier.
Another factor that can contribute to a slow to respond starter is bad wiring/connections between the battery, the starter motor and the engine/chassis ground.
In some areas of the country where snow falls and salt is used, or even if the age the compoents is great enough, the battery cable connections to the low mounted starter, or the chassis/engine ground would get corroded and if one watched the cabling sometimes with exposed strands of wiring if the insulation gone he would see that so few strands were actually carrying current the strands would heat up to a dull red. This interferes with the flow of electrons and only once this heating has reached some plateau does sufficent current flow to cause the starter to engage. Slow cranking can also result as the starter is not receiving its full allotment of power.
Now the starter of the Boxster is not mounted as low as the starter in other cars, but the cables to/from the starter and chassis/engine ground can still be exposed to the corrosive effects present under all conditions, so a thorough checkout of the cables/connections is a good idea to at least eliminate this possibility.
AFIAK there is nothing that you can do at the wheel, with the key, that should have any effect on how rapidly the starter responds and engages and cranks the engine. One thing you can try though is to see if you can vary how you twist the key, appyling pressure in or sideways to see if you can cause the key to move/shift position -- although you may not feel it do this -- to the point you can affect the starter's reaction/behavior. If you can this suggests there's something questionable in the ignition switch.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Briefly, when the key is turned a transceiver in the dash located very near the key emits a RF burst of energy. This is received by the RFID pill in the key head module. This burst of energy is used to power the RFID pill's electrical/RF systems and the result is a security code is transmitted via RF back to the transceiver in the dash. This code is then compared to known codes in the list of codes and if it is recognized the starter circuit is allowed to crank the engine.
You can test the car's behavior be removing the RFID pill from the key module and with no other keys in your pocket or in the car try to start the engine with no RFID pill near the dash.
Or you can try another key with (possibly) a fresher/more energetic, quicker responding RFID pill.
One possible failure mode of the clutch switch is that it doesn't close (or open) immediately everytime the clutch pedal is depressed, that there is some delay, intermittently so. The failure isn't a hard failure which would make id'ing the switch the as the source of the problem easier.
Another factor that can contribute to a slow to respond starter is bad wiring/connections between the battery, the starter motor and the engine/chassis ground.
In some areas of the country where snow falls and salt is used, or even if the age the compoents is great enough, the battery cable connections to the low mounted starter, or the chassis/engine ground would get corroded and if one watched the cabling sometimes with exposed strands of wiring if the insulation gone he would see that so few strands were actually carrying current the strands would heat up to a dull red. This interferes with the flow of electrons and only once this heating has reached some plateau does sufficent current flow to cause the starter to engage. Slow cranking can also result as the starter is not receiving its full allotment of power.
Now the starter of the Boxster is not mounted as low as the starter in other cars, but the cables to/from the starter and chassis/engine ground can still be exposed to the corrosive effects present under all conditions, so a thorough checkout of the cables/connections is a good idea to at least eliminate this possibility.
AFIAK there is nothing that you can do at the wheel, with the key, that should have any effect on how rapidly the starter responds and engages and cranks the engine. One thing you can try though is to see if you can vary how you twist the key, appyling pressure in or sideways to see if you can cause the key to move/shift position -- although you may not feel it do this -- to the point you can affect the starter's reaction/behavior. If you can this suggests there's something questionable in the ignition switch.
Sincerely,
Macster.
02-10-2011, 10:00 PM
#11
Instructor
Thread Starter
Glass vial
Thank you this is great. You have a lot of information here that I did not find anywhere else.
That would fit these symptoms.
Removing the pill is exactly what it is like the four seconds before the starter kicks in. Lights, radio, fan 3-2-1 but now nothing. Cleaning it cut the start time in half. That must be part of it.
No other key but I can live with the consistent 3-2-1 countdown as long as it does not take longer.
That sure could have been a contributing factor because at first I was releasing it between tries. Now I hold it down to the floor through out the whole operation.
These will get a thorough check.
Even if no snow falls, and no salt is used, if you can see the ocean from your window... Corrosion makes complete sense.
Except turning the key off before the code gets identified, letting up on the clutch and trying again before the clutch switch resets etc.
Here is a Pic of the glass pill vial.
and if it is recognized the starter circuit is allowed to crank the engine.
Try another key with a fresher/more energetic, quicker responding RFID pill.
the clutch switch .. doesn't close immediately.
slow to respond starter is bad wiring/connections between the battery, the starter motor, and the engine/chassis ground.
In some areas of the country where snow falls and salt is used.
.. there is nothing that you can do at the wheel, with the key that should have any effect on how rapidly the starter responds and engages and cranks the engine.
Here is a Pic of the glass pill vial.
03-28-2011, 10:00 PM
#12
Instructor
Thread Starter
Security control module computer throttle-adjusting unit.
Well we are pretty sure the starting delay is not caused by the switch, (it clicks) so that was not replaced. The symptoms point to the control module under the seat, which might have gotten wet with a previous owner. Even with the drains open, the rain in Hawaii comes in at a greater volume than water can drain out. Taking Sjfehr’s idea a step further, maybe the connection was momentarily disconnected. So I followed Loren’s restart combination and reset the DME control module, it did not cost anything, and was easy to check.
It is still a work in progress, but for the first time it started as soon as the key was turned.
http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/im...01124524AM.JPG
DME Idle Reset
From the Porsche Technical Manual -- DME control module:
With the DME ME 7.2, it is necessary to carry out learning and adaptation routine as described below:
* Switch the ignition on for 1 minute without starting the engine. Do not actuate accelerator pedal.
* Switch off ignition for at least 10 seconds.
This completes the adaptation of the throttle-adjusting unit. With all DME systems, the engine must run for several minutes before the engine control module can relearn the idle speed and mixture adaptation values.
From the Porsche Technical Manual -- DME control module:
With the DME ME 7.2, it is necessary to carry out learning and adaptation routine as described below:
* Switch the ignition on for 1 minute without starting the engine. Do not actuate accelerator pedal.
* Switch off ignition for at least 10 seconds.
This completes the adaptation of the throttle-adjusting unit. With all DME systems, the engine must run for several minutes before the engine control module can relearn the idle speed and mixture adaptation values.
http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/im...01124524AM.JPG
