Sparkplug tube replacement?
11-11-2010, 03:13 AM
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Sparkplug tube replacement?
I've had my 98 Boxster for a year now and im tired of getting under my car to clean the sparkplug tubes of oil everytime my check engine light comes on. I have the bently book and gone to the dealer as well as Auto House of clovis and they all say the same thing. "the cam cover has to come off, 7 hour job, $700+ blah blah blah". I have the new parts: tubes, o-rings, except assembly grease, Is it needed? My question is, can i just drain 2 or more quarts of oil and pop out the old tubes and pop the new ones on or is it really necessary to pull the cam covers off? Friday is just around the corner and i would like to get this over with. thanks to all
11-11-2010, 12:09 PM
#2
I had mine replaced before at a local indy.
I was going to do it myself, but I did not want to accept the risk of dropping the tube in the oil sump. I think I paid ~$250 at my indy.
There is a tool that others use which expands inside the tube making the removal easy. Go to the archives of PPBB.com and do a search for spark plug tube replacement. There will be plenty of posts that describe the process and the tool needed. Photos of the tool are included. The procedure did not involve the removal of the cam cover.
There is a tool that others use which expands inside the tube making the removal easy. Go to the archives of PPBB.com and do a search for spark plug tube replacement. There will be plenty of posts that describe the process and the tool needed. Photos of the tool are included. The procedure did not involve the removal of the cam cover.
11-11-2010, 03:34 PM
#3
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I've had my 98 Boxster for a year now and im tired of getting under my car to clean the sparkplug tubes of oil everytime my check engine light comes on. I have the bently book and gone to the dealer as well as Auto House of clovis and they all say the same thing. "the cam cover has to come off, 7 hour job, $700+ blah blah blah". I have the new parts: tubes, o-rings, except assembly grease, Is it needed? My question is, can i just drain 2 or more quarts of oil and pop out the old tubes and pop the new ones on or is it really necessary to pull the cam covers off? Friday is just around the corner and i would like to get this over with. thanks to all
No need to drain any oil since the amount of oil under the cam covers is too little to be at the sparkplug tube hole in the cover.
You might have to remove a rear wheel (or maybe both of them) and the wheel liners to get better access to the spark plug tubes. I'm not sure though.
My car's plugs have always been changed at the dealer and I know based on the cost the effort is not very great.
Spark plug tube leaks are not known though for triggering the CEL. What error code(s) are you getting from the engine controller?
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-12-2010, 01:13 AM
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Thanks tone40 i knew it was gonna be easy n cheap, it shows the special part and how to do it in the bentley manual. I've also been looking at pics on Pelican parts on how they open up the cam cover. It doesnt look like the tube can fall into the cam, you could see that it has a resting place for the tube so it looks unlikely to fall in.
To answer your question Macster, i dont know what error codes the engine controller is giving. I dont have a Durametric to hook up to my car, it was the first time when i took the car to the agency to get the water pump replaced that techman gave me a free inspection of the car and told me the plugs were leaking oil and that sooner or later i would get the CEL. When i do get it i clean up the sparkplugs and in a day or two the light goes away. This happens like every 4 to 5 months, could be because i rev over the 4 or 5 rpm range, but lately i've taken it easy. But when a corvette, mustang or other wanna be common car wants to match wits i eat em for breakfast
To answer your question Macster, i dont know what error codes the engine controller is giving. I dont have a Durametric to hook up to my car, it was the first time when i took the car to the agency to get the water pump replaced that techman gave me a free inspection of the car and told me the plugs were leaking oil and that sooner or later i would get the CEL. When i do get it i clean up the sparkplugs and in a day or two the light goes away. This happens like every 4 to 5 months, could be because i rev over the 4 or 5 rpm range, but lately i've taken it easy. But when a corvette, mustang or other wanna be common car wants to match wits i eat em for breakfast
11-12-2010, 12:13 PM
#5
You do not need to remove the cam covers to replace the spark plug tube o-rings or the tubes themselves.
If you do take the cam cover off for any reason (they leak oil sometimes too) you will need the assembly SEALANT, it's not grease. That is quite a large job and considerable amount of money.
If you do take the cam cover off for any reason (they leak oil sometimes too) you will need the assembly SEALANT, it's not grease. That is quite a large job and considerable amount of money.
11-12-2010, 01:43 PM
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It's been a few years, and I have forgotten some of the details, but I replaced two of these tubes on a friend's '99 Boxster a few years ago. I was going to change his spark plugs for him, and I noticed that two of the spark plug tubes were leaking. I ordered the parts (not expensive at all), then one afternoon did more-or-less an entire 60K service. I was able to remove the old tubes without any special tools, and replacing the tubes added no more than 15 minutes to the job. $700 seems insane unless there is some other problem.
I'm pretty sure I could put my Boxster up on jack stands, remove the rear wheels and whatever liners are in the way, change six spark plugs (if necessary) and six tubes, in just a couple of hours.
I'm pretty sure I could put my Boxster up on jack stands, remove the rear wheels and whatever liners are in the way, change six spark plugs (if necessary) and six tubes, in just a couple of hours.
11-12-2010, 02:56 PM
#7
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Thanks tone40 i knew it was gonna be easy n cheap, it shows the special part and how to do it in the bentley manual. I've also been looking at pics on Pelican parts on how they open up the cam cover. It doesnt look like the tube can fall into the cam, you could see that it has a resting place for the tube so it looks unlikely to fall in.
To answer your question Macster, i dont know what error codes the engine controller is giving. I dont have a Durametric to hook up to my car, it was the first time when i took the car to the agency to get the water pump replaced that techman gave me a free inspection of the car and told me the plugs were leaking oil and that sooner or later i would get the CEL. When i do get it i clean up the sparkplugs and in a day or two the light goes away. This happens like every 4 to 5 months, could be because i rev over the 4 or 5 rpm range, but lately i've taken it easy. But when a corvette, mustang or other wanna be common car wants to match wits i eat em for breakfast
To answer your question Macster, i dont know what error codes the engine controller is giving. I dont have a Durametric to hook up to my car, it was the first time when i took the car to the agency to get the water pump replaced that techman gave me a free inspection of the car and told me the plugs were leaking oil and that sooner or later i would get the CEL. When i do get it i clean up the sparkplugs and in a day or two the light goes away. This happens like every 4 to 5 months, could be because i rev over the 4 or 5 rpm range, but lately i've taken it easy. But when a corvette, mustang or other wanna be common car wants to match wits i eat em for breakfast
If you tell me the CEL is flashing the leaking spark plug tubes could be putting some oil on the coils and these could misfire, especially if they're original or just old coils.
Even if the CEL is not flashing it could still be misfires. You really need to pull the code(s) and post for further discussion.
Leaking spark plug tubes can allow oil to get onto the O2 sensors and the performance of these can be affected. The sensors are open to atmosphere cause they essentially compare the oxygen content in the exhaust gases to the oxygen content in the atmosphere. Oil can foul/interfere with the ability of the sensor to make this comparison by interfering with the ability of outside air to make its way into the sensor's tip.
This doesn't mean you should douse the sensors with soapy water or degreasers, or anything like that. It means you need to fix the oil leaks and of course see read the code(s).
Taking the engine to 4K or 5K is not that harmful, as long as the engine is fully warmed up. (My 02 Boxster even with over 236K miles still sees near redline activity once in a while.)
In fact there can be some benefit as this helps burn away engine deposits.
Another benefit is more agressive driving can have the engine controller relearn some of its engine control adaptations and the engine will have a bit more perkiness and get up and go. For those that take these and similar cars to the drag strip the 1st sometimes the 2nd run is just mainly to get the engine controller to forget its grandma adaptations and learn some John Force adaptations.
Sincerely,
Macster.
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11-14-2010, 09:57 PM
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I've finally replaced my sparkplug tubes this friday, I was suprised at how easy it was. I didnt have to take off the wheels or any plastic cover, I bought these rhino ramps from Kragen and drove the car onto them The oil doesnt spill out when you take out the tubes, even after the fact that the o-rings are practicly crushed and loose. I just replaced the o-rings and put some oil on them and slapped them in and it was all done. You dont have to worry about the tubes falling in and disapearing remember about the resting place i talked about before, well yeah its impossible to fall in. It saved me the hassel of leaving the car with some dirty grease monkey that just wants to milk money out of you.
Well thats good news that i can take the car to 4-6 rpms, i was starting to think that this was the cause of my sparkplug wells filling up with oil. What i have noticed is that the rubber tip of the boot on the ignition coil is cracked, nothing serious at the moment but it is on my will get to it list. When the time comes i will be looking out for one of those durametric tools to get better information from my engine. Thanks to all again
The oil doesnt spill out when you take out the tubes, even after the fact that the o-rings are practicly crushed and loose. I just replaced the o-rings and put some oil on them and slapped them in and it was all done. You dont have to worry about the tubes falling in and disapearing remember about the resting place i talked about before, well yeah its impossible to fall in. It saved me the hassel of leaving the car with some dirty grease monkey that just wants to milk money out of you.Well thats good news that i can take the car to 4-6 rpms, i was starting to think that this was the cause of my sparkplug wells filling up with oil. What i have noticed is that the rubber tip of the boot on the ignition coil is cracked, nothing serious at the moment but it is on my will get to it list. When the time comes i will be looking out for one of those durametric tools to get better information from my engine. Thanks to all again
11-15-2010, 11:22 AM
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You do not need a Durametric. There are cheaper code readers available, though of course they are not nearly as feature rich. But I've used an Actron now for over 10 years and it has paid for itself many times over.
If you tell me the CEL is flashing the leaking spark plug tubes could be putting some oil on the coils and these could misfire, especially if they're original or just old coils.
Even if the CEL is not flashing it could still be misfires. You really need to pull the code(s) and post for further discussion.
Leaking spark plug tubes can allow oil to get onto the O2 sensors and the performance of these can be affected. The sensors are open to atmosphere cause they essentially compare the oxygen content in the exhaust gases to the oxygen content in the atmosphere. Oil can foul/interfere with the ability of the sensor to make this comparison by interfering with the ability of outside air to make its way into the sensor's tip.
This doesn't mean you should douse the sensors with soapy water or degreasers, or anything like that. It means you need to fix the oil leaks and of course see read the code(s).
Taking the engine to 4K or 5K is not that harmful, as long as the engine is fully warmed up. (My 02 Boxster even with over 236K miles still sees near redline activity once in a while.)
In fact there can be some benefit as this helps burn away engine deposits.
Another benefit is more agressive driving can have the engine controller relearn some of its engine control adaptations and the engine will have a bit more perkiness and get up and go. For those that take these and similar cars to the drag strip the 1st sometimes the 2nd run is just mainly to get the engine controller to forget its grandma adaptations and learn some John Force adaptations.
Sincerely,
Macster.
If you tell me the CEL is flashing the leaking spark plug tubes could be putting some oil on the coils and these could misfire, especially if they're original or just old coils.
Even if the CEL is not flashing it could still be misfires. You really need to pull the code(s) and post for further discussion.
Leaking spark plug tubes can allow oil to get onto the O2 sensors and the performance of these can be affected. The sensors are open to atmosphere cause they essentially compare the oxygen content in the exhaust gases to the oxygen content in the atmosphere. Oil can foul/interfere with the ability of the sensor to make this comparison by interfering with the ability of outside air to make its way into the sensor's tip.
This doesn't mean you should douse the sensors with soapy water or degreasers, or anything like that. It means you need to fix the oil leaks and of course see read the code(s).
Taking the engine to 4K or 5K is not that harmful, as long as the engine is fully warmed up. (My 02 Boxster even with over 236K miles still sees near redline activity once in a while.)
In fact there can be some benefit as this helps burn away engine deposits.
Another benefit is more agressive driving can have the engine controller relearn some of its engine control adaptations and the engine will have a bit more perkiness and get up and go. For those that take these and similar cars to the drag strip the 1st sometimes the 2nd run is just mainly to get the engine controller to forget its grandma adaptations and learn some John Force adaptations.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Could this be the cause of the symptons that Ive posted in the thread about back fireing when cold? I have leaking oil tubes and the oil is definetly running down on the coils and the O2 sensors.
Tim
11-15-2010, 04:04 PM
#10
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I think though in your car's case there are two problems.
The oil leaks, which need to be addressed. The leaks need to be stopped and the oil removed. I would suggest you avoid a water soluble 'degreaser' (Gunk for example). The use of water on one of these engines can lead to other problems so my advice is to avoid washing the engine unless absolutely necessary.
Instead resort to localized cleaning by removing the coils and cleaning them with a suitable electronics degreaser. At the same time you can double-check the condition of the coils and their installation and that of the plugs, etc. just to make sure there's nothing wrong.
Then with the oils leaks a thing of the past, and with clean coils and such see if the symptoms return.
However, backfiring through the intake is generally not a symptom -- there are always exceptions -- of bad coils.
Intake backfires are a symptom of a lean mixture.
The leaness can be due to an intake air leak -- to put your mind on track thinking about this I ask for the sake of discussion what was done to the car recently and could a bad job have resulted in an intake air leak?
Or it could be to the Ecu being 'confused' about the intake air temperature, mass, or the temperature of the engine (was is primarily derived from the temperature reported by the coolant sensor).
One 'trick' is when the MAF is suspect (which provides intake air temp and air MASS to the engine controller) is to disconnect the MAF at the wiring harness and see if the symptoms remain or go away with the MAF out of the picture.
I'm not sure what disconnecting the coolant sensor at the harness will do. The absence of a sensor may deliver an implausible 'reading' to the engine controller to the point the engine controller may not fire the engine. Or it may deliver just an invalid one -- for instance a too cold of a temperature -- that causes the engine to misbehave upon cold start and lead to confusion on your part.
If you want to go after this problem with a reasonable chance of solving it in a reasonable amount of time, buy an OBDII code reader/data viewer and check the intake air temperature and coolant temperature at cold engine start. They should be close to one another. If the air temperature is say 45F and the coolant temperature substantially higher (my WAG would be 20 or more degreess F.) if based on a benchmark thermometer if the air temperature reading is close then the coolant sensor's higher reading reason enough to suspect the sensor.
If the coolant sensor delivers a higher than actual temperature reading the engine controller will not add sufficient fuel for the actual colder engine and thus the mixture is lean and backfiring is the result.
Sincerely,
Macster.
11-21-2010, 11:46 AM
#12
