Macster

By taking it easy you may not subject the engine to the operating conditions at which the error occurs.

No way I'm suggesting you have to hammer the heck out of the engine but driviing the car in an overly sedate manner is not the soution.

At some point you want to be able to drive the car normally.

But also how you drive the car going forward (no pun) depends upon what might possibly be causing the check engine light.

As I like to point out there's always the chance of if putting off having something properly taken care of and continuing to drive the car in hopes if the error occurrs enough times the reason for the error will be evident that a not so serious condition can turn serious. With an increase in the amount of money you'll have to spend to put the car right again.

Anything related to cam timing errors gives me the heebie-jeebies.

Sincerely,

Macster.

judd944

heebie-jeebies, ha! yeah, I get that it should have worked fine but in my driving normal I am not keeping it under 2700 rpm anymore or even thinking about it. In the last week I have not done a few things, downshift to 4k rpm, 6k rpm on on-ramps, WOT up to redline to hear the car, sliding through intersections, etc. you know the way I normally drive the car

I will resume that in a week and see how things go. My tech said to put some oil additive through the car then change the oil and hope that the error occured from a contaminate in the oil.

Think of it this way, I am now driving the car like my wife was in the seat beside me all the time. That will stop soon. I am actually thinking of doing a driver ed event this summer with the car so if the error comes back then we can be sure it is high RPM's that does it!

judd944

oh, the tech tested the unit and it is functioning properly now. both banks adjust the angle at high RPM.

azizajalal

While the light might be simply indicating some connection problem that while it causes the engine to act up a bit there's no risk to the engine.

Tinting

Macster

Well, one can't always assume the problem is a simple connector problem. The cam timing may be off cause the guide rails used to move the slack from one side of the chain to the other may be wearing out or worn out and the cam timing is off and varying this can be an early warning sign of pending serious trouble.

I'm always a bit concerned when there is any engine reaction to a check engine light event either before the light comes on or at the time the light comes on and after the light remains on. Something's wrong enough to affect the engine's behavior and while this could be a simple sensor/connector problem the underlying cause may be something far more serious.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Helidoc67

I had the same error 18 months ago then the light went out and has not recurred.

I hoped it was sensor prblem

Does anyone know if this error code can be due to problems with the intermediate shaft bearing? just asking?

v

Macster

If the error code is related to the IMSB going bad that is the slowest failing IMSB, ever. 18 months is not a time span usually associated with a faiing IMSB. 18 seconds is more like it. From "good" -- no symptoms -- to bad in just seconds is the usual story.

Absent any noises, any engine misbehavior, and I assume oil/filter services done regularly and an approved oil is use and no scary bits of debris in the oil filter housing oil or filter element? Then the error code was some sort of a glitch.

Years ago I had another car that would once in a great while trigger a similar error code. I suspected it was due to some corrosion at a connector. The engine had quite a few oil leaks early on -- under warranty -- which had me washing the engine after each repair to check for oil leaks, then at the end of its warranty an intake manifold cracked and flooded the engine compartment with hot coolant.

I finally got tired of clearing the error code and sought out the connector -- it was a bit hard to get at -- but I managed to disconnect and reconnect the connector -- just this action is sufficient to remove any surface corrosion at the contacts -- and the error code never returned.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Helidoc67

Thanks Macster, for your reassuring reply.

Engine sounds great at idle and there are no additional noises.

Engine not really misbehaving, just seems to be a little latency in third gear at 40-50 mph, when I have minimal pressure on the accelerator.

I went ahead and changed the airfilter and the oil this weekend (filter opened and no metal parts or aluminium shavings)

I did find some particles of a green rubber material ( which i think came from the oil filter O ring being over tightened at the prior oil change)- I am assuming that there are no other green rubber parts in the engine!!

I used some lucas additive to the fuel tank to clean out the injectors and cleaned the mass airflow sensor ( with the CRC MAS cleaner).

So far so good, and certainly no error codes.

My plan is to have a professional replace plugs and coils if this does not completely resolve my issues as they probably neeed to be changed anyway.

Thanks for the advice. I have been advised to consider replacement of the IMSB when the clutch needs changing, but have only 41,000 miles on my 12 y o car.

Cheers

V

Macster

Maybe things have chanced but IIRC the oil filter housing o-ring is black not green.

If it is green and the same color as what you found in the oil and shows signs of having been damaged this can account for the pieces of what you found in the oil.

But it is hard for me to imagine how an o-ring could be damaged from the filter being overtightened. The o-ring generates a seal from the compression of the o-ring in the oil filter housing groove and the diameter of the bore this housing screws into.

The amount of compression is controlled by the diameter of the o-ring and the depth/width of the groove into which it fits and then the diameter of the bore into which the housing fits.

Now a possible problem can be the o-ring was not installed correctly, excessively twisted or even not properly positioned in its groove but in a thread of the housig and as a result the o-ring was damaged during installation. However, the action wants to hold back any pieces that tear loose from the ring, not shove them ahead of the o-ring and past the filter housing threads and into the housing where they'll be caught in the filter. And if the o-ring damaged enough to put parts of it in the oil I would expect the housing to leak (seep/weep) oil at least.

The short version of the above is I do not believe the filter housing o-ring was the source of what you found, unless you have found a new way to incorrectly install an oil filter housing o-ring and filter housing.

While I hate to come across as an alarmist, I have to add that there are other sources of rubber or rubber like material in the engine.

The camshaft covers are sealed to the heads with a sealant (the times I've seen this material it is black but the color might have changed) that is applied as a bead and this bead is squeezed flat to form a seal between the camshaft cover and head. It is common for excess sealant to be squeezed out and form flashing like a layer cake with icing between layers when the layers are pressed down. Over time pieces of this sealing flashing can break loose and end up in the oil filter.

The camshaft bolts (and IMS end plate bolts) and there may be other bolts but these are all I know about for sure, are micro-sealed and this sealant is light green and when the bolts are installed this can abrade and put small amounts of tiny pieces of this material in the oil.

However, the material should be short lived, that is there is not an ongoing process of this material ending up in the oil. It would be most prominent after the 1st or second oil change of a new, rebuilt or re-worked engine, then I would expect it to disappear and not show up at all in subsequent oil changes.

Spark plug tube o-rings are rubber like. These can come apart and some portion can remain in the engine and end up in the oil filter. I do not know the color of these o-rings. But if the engine had recent spark plug work this could account for the presence of o-ring material in the oil, but of course I can't say what color this material would be. Oh, I note you are going to have plugs down. At this time the tube o-rings want to be carefully inspected to see if they have the same color and are torn/having missing bits which could then explain what was found in the oil.

Then there are the cam chain tensioner piston seals which can start to fail and the seal material -- a kind of light green -- can show up in the oil filter.

If the material is from this source this is on its way to being a serious problem. The hesitation you mention could (I say 'could') arise from a failing tensioner that interferes with the proper camshaft timing change that can occur at low (approx. 1400 rpms) (and again at a bit over 5K rpms).

Having a professional tech using some kind of diagnostics computer -- PST2, PIIWIS2 -- that can log camshaft timing activation and actual timing look into this might be a good thing to have done to ensure the cams are advancing/retarding as commanded/directed by the DME.

Oh, yet enother possible source of the material you found can be come from the IMSB and its seal coming apart. This seal material will probably be followed in short order by ferrous metal bits in the oil filter oil and element. Then scary noies.

What I would suggest is since you have driven the car some since the last oil/filer change carefully remove the filter and dump its contents into a *clean* drain pan and look for any rubber like debris, or metal debris. If a chain tensioner seal is going bad this not only puts the seal material in the oil but the tensionr piston abrades itself and the bore into which it fits and this puts metal (alum? and ferrous) in the oil.

Carefully save a portion of this oil and have it analyzed. What this finds or doesn't find is important.

Visually note what's in the oil filter housing oil and filter element. What you find or do not find and what the oil analysis finds will help you decide what to do next.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Helidoc67

Thanks for the advice:

Timing perfect by computer analysis

Oil analysis: no alum or metal small fragments of green material

Plugs changed, clutch and IMSB replaced

Porsche tech told me he could smell burnt oil from bearing?

Have to send original bearing to Engineering company to get 1yr warranty

Will ask them to open the bearing and let me know state of seal

Will keep you posted

odurandina

does anyone have a ballpark on (shop invoice) ims replacement with open LN Eng. bearing

vs oem bearing ?

Helidoc67

Not sure I would but an OEM bearing back in. But at a dealer I used they but the LN Eng bearing in for me for $2000 and fixed the rear main seal which was leaking.

I have driven the car for a few hundred miles now and i still seem to get some hesitancy as I drive at 3000 rpm and 40 mph; Since I drive a C4 is there anyway my cheap tires/ four wheel drive might be causing this issue? It is very subtle and only felt with minimal throttle input. Possible more obvious when cold, but I am not sure about it.

At present it does not seem to affect performance if I drive normally, just just wondered if my Korean tires cold be responsible?

V

robrichtx

I just got this code this morning, along with "random" misfire on cyl 1 and cyl 4. The only time this happens is after sitting in a heavy, heavy rain. I drove the car over 300 miles this weekend on a roadtrip to Houston, and about 2 hours of the driving was in heavy rain. No problems.

Yet after starting her this morning and pulling out of the driveway, I got the error again. 1st time in 6 months. Last time it happened I had the actuator checked and it was working fine. We replaced coils on one side of the engine, and the problem went away. Seems to me that some water is sloshing somewhere on startup and causing a temporary short, as the engine is smooth, car drives normally, and no other codes are present.

Given that this acts as if there is a minor crack in a wire or connector, can anyone point me to a couple of wires to check (other than the spark plug wires) next time I put her up on my friend's rack?

Thanks in Advance -

Rob

p.s. - Helidoc, your hesitation at 3000 RPM may just be the valves advancing - happens around 3000-3400 rpm if I recall correctly, and can be felt under a wide variety of driving conditions.

Macster

My tech sources tell me a common cause of misfires that are almost always blamed on 'bad' coils can in fact arise from a marginal electrical connection of a wire or wires that connect the coil to the wiring harness.

What percentage of otherwise good coils that are replaced due to this wiring harness/connection problem I can't say but it is worth checking into.

Sincerely,

Macster.

robrichtx

I couldn't agree more Macster. I have had this error three times, and each time it happened after heavy rains when the car was parked (as opposed to running).

I checked the electrical connector at the coil and it sure seems thin and under insulated. One of the coils is new, the other has been replaced. Even the new one showed a misfire, so I'm betting it's a loose connection, or an exposed piece of wiring. Hopefully it won't be too hard to find. We get so little rain down here in Central Texas that the problem would rarely show itself.

Anyway - the car runs like a top, and the code reset itself without needing to be cleared.

Hope this helps anyone else who reads/searches this thread. I'd check those connections first.

Rob

P.S. - I've also had the IMS, RMS, and AOS replaced preemptively, so I'm probably a little less likely to freak out over an engine code