OS Giken for Boxster and Boxster S Pre-order
01-05-2010, 02:30 PM
#1
OS Giken for Boxster and Boxster S Pre-order
Hey there everyone,
I wanted to get a list of people together who are interested in getting a new OS Giken Differential for their Boxster or Boxster S.
We have already sent both of these gearboxes to OS Giken for development, however, if I can put a decent enough pre-order together for them, they will bump these two differentials up on the production line for us, so I wanted to see check in with everyone here.
Do we have any interested people who would like to add their names?
Retail cost is estimated to be about $1990.00 plus shipping, installation can also be arranged, as we specialize in Porsche Transaxles. I will be able to confirm this within a couple of days.
I realize that many people have been waiting for a new option to become available and I am really looking forward to helping you with this. The more people that we can get together for a pre-development order, the sooner this will be come to fruition.
Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, as well as if you would like to get on the list.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
I wanted to get a list of people together who are interested in getting a new OS Giken Differential for their Boxster or Boxster S.
We have already sent both of these gearboxes to OS Giken for development, however, if I can put a decent enough pre-order together for them, they will bump these two differentials up on the production line for us, so I wanted to see check in with everyone here.
Do we have any interested people who would like to add their names?
Retail cost is estimated to be about $1990.00 plus shipping, installation can also be arranged, as we specialize in Porsche Transaxles. I will be able to confirm this within a couple of days.
I realize that many people have been waiting for a new option to become available and I am really looking forward to helping you with this. The more people that we can get together for a pre-development order, the sooner this will be come to fruition.
Let me know if you have any questions, comments, or concerns, as well as if you would like to get on the list.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
01-05-2010, 04:52 PM
#2
Herr Unmöglich
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Can you compare it to other options such as the Guard unit? You guys did good work on my 944 trans last year including a GT LSD install. My 986S could box could probably use an upgrade too.
01-08-2010, 06:28 PM
#3
Here is how this differential compares to the Porsche Motorsport, and Guard Transmission differential.
I posted this in a couple of the other rooms too, but here you go. The beginning of this was in response to the generally thought of opinion that the GT differential is still one of the best differentials on the market.
Believe me I understand where everyone is coming from here, but take a look at the OS Giken here, and I am sure that you are going understand where I am coming from with regard to saying that even the GT differential, which has always been a very good option in the past does not hold a candle to this differential.
A very bold statement I understand. But since it has been now brought up here are some things to consider when comparing these two.
The GT Differential has always had a similar design the Porsche Motorsport differential, that being a plate type ramping differential. It made it's mark here with the ability to custom choose between two different ramp angles within the same differential. Usually 40/60 and 80/80 but certainly a couple of other options as well. It also features 4, 6 or 8 plates internally, that is 2, 3, or 4 clutches per side. It also features a more aggressive friction composition to that of the Porsche Motorsport diff.
Here is the rub. The GT differential has on average a 65 to 85 lbs. breakaway preload. This has shown to cause a couple of issues. The first being that as you enter into a tight turn your car has to overcome this preload in the process of turning in. So what right? That should not make much of a difference. Well actually it does. The more preload there is the harder it will be to get the car to turn in, but this is not usually much of a problem as you get used to the differential, and modify your driving to compensate. What is a problem is the material that is removed from the plates inside the differential ever time you make a turn.
The Porsche Motorsport differential utilizes carbon as the primary friction material in their differentials, the GT diff does not. They use a moly blend, which is then plasma sprayed onto the plates to cause a friction material. This material is highly coarse and reacts in a way to not only lock the differential, which is good, but also remove metal from the opposing plates, which is bad. This combination of friction material and removed metal goes where?? Through out the gearbox, very bad. It especially goes directly into the input and pinion bearings, where it begins to cause problems inside of them as well. VERY VERY Bad.
So how is the OS Giken different? If you review the pic here, you will see that on the ramps themselves are counter springs that help you pull the ramps back to neutral when there is no force applied to them. It essentially reduces the breakaway to a very minimal amount, it basically opens the differential up, releasing the plates, so that you do not get unneeded lockup, and as a result unneeded wear. The friction material is again carbon, but due to the amount of plates which is more then double the GT or the PMS, as well as the way the differential works, they do not suffer from premature wear. Nor do they require the rear of the car to overcome excessive pre-loaded lockup in order to turn the rear end. (the difference in speed between the left and right tire.)
I understand that in the past we have all, including me always gone to GT for the strongest best differential made. I have for years recommended only them for racing applications. However with this new offering, as well as the cost differential here, I think that the OS Giken simply makes more sense.
GT Differential, $2,400 to $2,800 give or take.
OS Giken Differential $1,990.00
In the nine year that OS Giken has been making differentials, they have exactly ZERO failures. Now to make this completely understood, that is not just in their Porsche diffs, that is for ALL of their differentials across the board. That to me is pretty impressive.
Check out this pic, I think that if you have ever been inside of a Porsche LSD, no matter who built it, you will see, there is no comparison, and for the moment, no competition to this differential. Correction on this, I did just find a new differential for cup cars that utilizes the same characteristics as the OS Giken differential, only it does not have as many plates internal, guess the cost on that one? $8000.00 no kidding.
I hope that this answers your question here everyone, I would not hesitate to put this into any application, but check your rules to make sure that there are not restrictions first if you are going to race with it. These differentials have shown no failure rate, even when put against 1100 HP engines. I think that is pretty impressive. What do you think?
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Sales Manager
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
I posted this in a couple of the other rooms too, but here you go. The beginning of this was in response to the generally thought of opinion that the GT differential is still one of the best differentials on the market.
Believe me I understand where everyone is coming from here, but take a look at the OS Giken here, and I am sure that you are going understand where I am coming from with regard to saying that even the GT differential, which has always been a very good option in the past does not hold a candle to this differential.
A very bold statement I understand. But since it has been now brought up here are some things to consider when comparing these two.
The GT Differential has always had a similar design the Porsche Motorsport differential, that being a plate type ramping differential. It made it's mark here with the ability to custom choose between two different ramp angles within the same differential. Usually 40/60 and 80/80 but certainly a couple of other options as well. It also features 4, 6 or 8 plates internally, that is 2, 3, or 4 clutches per side. It also features a more aggressive friction composition to that of the Porsche Motorsport diff.
Here is the rub. The GT differential has on average a 65 to 85 lbs. breakaway preload. This has shown to cause a couple of issues. The first being that as you enter into a tight turn your car has to overcome this preload in the process of turning in. So what right? That should not make much of a difference. Well actually it does. The more preload there is the harder it will be to get the car to turn in, but this is not usually much of a problem as you get used to the differential, and modify your driving to compensate. What is a problem is the material that is removed from the plates inside the differential ever time you make a turn.
The Porsche Motorsport differential utilizes carbon as the primary friction material in their differentials, the GT diff does not. They use a moly blend, which is then plasma sprayed onto the plates to cause a friction material. This material is highly coarse and reacts in a way to not only lock the differential, which is good, but also remove metal from the opposing plates, which is bad. This combination of friction material and removed metal goes where?? Through out the gearbox, very bad. It especially goes directly into the input and pinion bearings, where it begins to cause problems inside of them as well. VERY VERY Bad.
So how is the OS Giken different? If you review the pic here, you will see that on the ramps themselves are counter springs that help you pull the ramps back to neutral when there is no force applied to them. It essentially reduces the breakaway to a very minimal amount, it basically opens the differential up, releasing the plates, so that you do not get unneeded lockup, and as a result unneeded wear. The friction material is again carbon, but due to the amount of plates which is more then double the GT or the PMS, as well as the way the differential works, they do not suffer from premature wear. Nor do they require the rear of the car to overcome excessive pre-loaded lockup in order to turn the rear end. (the difference in speed between the left and right tire.)
I understand that in the past we have all, including me always gone to GT for the strongest best differential made. I have for years recommended only them for racing applications. However with this new offering, as well as the cost differential here, I think that the OS Giken simply makes more sense.
GT Differential, $2,400 to $2,800 give or take.
OS Giken Differential $1,990.00
In the nine year that OS Giken has been making differentials, they have exactly ZERO failures. Now to make this completely understood, that is not just in their Porsche diffs, that is for ALL of their differentials across the board. That to me is pretty impressive.
Check out this pic, I think that if you have ever been inside of a Porsche LSD, no matter who built it, you will see, there is no comparison, and for the moment, no competition to this differential. Correction on this, I did just find a new differential for cup cars that utilizes the same characteristics as the OS Giken differential, only it does not have as many plates internal, guess the cost on that one? $8000.00 no kidding.
I hope that this answers your question here everyone, I would not hesitate to put this into any application, but check your rules to make sure that there are not restrictions first if you are going to race with it. These differentials have shown no failure rate, even when put against 1100 HP engines. I think that is pretty impressive. What do you think?
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Sales Manager
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
Last edited by Erik@GBox; 02-15-2010 at 01:21 PM.
01-08-2010, 11:10 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Schwank,
If you want to read Paul Guard's direct response to these claims in his own words head over to the Cup Car forum and read a thread titled "Got to get a Giken" that Erik started about 3 months ago. It was begun with pretty much verbatim of what has been posted above.
If you want to read Paul Guard's direct response to these claims in his own words head over to the Cup Car forum and read a thread titled "Got to get a Giken" that Erik started about 3 months ago. It was begun with pretty much verbatim of what has been posted above.
01-20-2010, 05:33 PM
#6
Hey there Schwank,
I would agree with you that the conversation in the cup car room got way out of hand, and so to help avoid a similar experience here I will try to answer your question in a more general fashion.
OS Giken now offers their Super Lock LSD for Porsche applications. It features several options that I feel set this differential apart from the competition. See if you agree with me, however, on this opinion.
Up until recently the LSD's that we have all had to choose from offered up to 8 clutch plated total, and a fairly wide variety of pre-load ranging from about 9 ft-lbs in the OEM differential to as high as 120 ft-lbs in some of the aftermarket offerings. In addition, there are some other issues that have shown to be problematic in the past that the new OS Giken differential addresses, and has done a wonderful job in resolving.
So here is what I am talking about. The OS Giken Differential is what we are calling a low preload, or negative preload differential. In ZF-style differentials, there is always a set amount of preload which is applied to the differential's clutch plates. This is important to these diffs as it keeps one wheel from running away from the other in tight turns, or when you lift a wheel off the ground. The amount of preload normally in a OEM differential will vary with it's wear as well as it's application, usually between about 25 ft-lbs to as high as 120 ft-lbs, although I have seem some street differentials as low as 9 ft-lbs, in the past. This preload is the amount of torque that your car has to overcome before one wheel will slip away inside of the differential and be allowed to spin faster or slower then the opposite wheel. This again is important as it allows the wheels to spin at different speeds, when you are putting your car through a tight turn. It is also important because depending on where this preload is set, it can also determine the amount of heat generated by the differential, as well as the durability of the differential. This preload is always present, so the more you turn your car the more these plates have to give way, therefore the more wear is generated by the interaction of the plates. Preload is usually setup by two beveled Bellville washers that are on either end of the differential. These washers apply pressure to the stack overall and preload is then set by varying the thickness of the Bellvilles.
The OS Giken is different. It uses counter sprung ramps, which means that when there is no or low torque being applied to the differential, it automatically and seamlessly open the differential back up, and in effect allows the differential to act like an open diff. This is especially nice if you have a dual use car that is going to see street operation, as well as track. What this means is when you are trying to park your car, you will not have any issues with the differential getting in the way of turning your car into your spot. In other differentials, especially ones with a higher preload, this can be something of an issue. On the track, it means that when you are entering into a tight turn under braking, say turn one at Miller Motorsports, you will again not have to fight to first overcome the preload of the differential, which can sometime upset the car as it turns in. As a result your turn-in will be more accurate and you will be able to carry a bit more entry speed, potentially.
Here is the next thing that I really like about the OS Giken. It offers up to 100% lockup on the acceleration side of the differential and about 50% on the deceleration side. Both of these lockup %'s can be fully adjusted, as well. The neat thing here is that on the acceleration side this differential acts somewhat similar to a torque biased differential, meaning that the more torque that is applied to the differential the more it will lock up, until it reaches 100%. This is nice as it also means that you will never have to worry about too much lock up or not enough. The OS Giken has shown incredible durability in the past and here is why I believe that is.
When you are not applying constant preload to a differential you are not asking the differential clutch plates to breakaway from each other, when there is no need for them to. (They are already open) The other reason for this differential's long life is due in part to a couple of different reasons. One it does not use extremely porous friction plates, there for it does not generate contaminants that circulate throughout the gearbox, as other ZF-Style differentials do. Instead, this differential uses more clutch plates to share the work load more evenly though out the differential.
The Currently available ZF-style differentials offer up to 8 clutch plates internal to the differential. The OS Giken offers up to 24 clutches depending on the application. In a GT2 / GT3 application it is 28 plates with two of them disengaged. So it is a 24 clutch, 12 per side, differential. Now here is where it get fun, at least for me. LOL Because this differential has 4 X the amount of internal clutch plates, it distributes the work over that same amount. This means that this differential will have incredible life and wear characteristics. To make this differential even stronger, it features a billet steel case that has undergone further chemical strengthening, Forged Steel hand finished spyder gears, that have undergone shot pean for further durability, and a one piece ramp cross, instead of the ZF-style two piece (which has shown to fail from time to time)
Here is the best part, pricing on this new differential is $1990.00 plus shipping.
I am sure that there will be questions that I have not adequately addressed already here, please feel free to ask me more specific questions.
There is one last thing that I think is pretty impressive about this company. In the 9 years that OS Giken has been building LSD's, they have experienced exactly ZERO failures. Not just in the Porsche lineup mind you, but across their entire product offerings. (they make a lot of diffs) This is especially remarkable when you do a bit of research as to who is actually using these diffs. One company that might surprise you, the New Mercedes / McLaren 777 supercar is using this differential.
I hope that was a bit more informative, and please do not hesitate to ask more questions.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
I would agree with you that the conversation in the cup car room got way out of hand, and so to help avoid a similar experience here I will try to answer your question in a more general fashion.
OS Giken now offers their Super Lock LSD for Porsche applications. It features several options that I feel set this differential apart from the competition. See if you agree with me, however, on this opinion.
Up until recently the LSD's that we have all had to choose from offered up to 8 clutch plated total, and a fairly wide variety of pre-load ranging from about 9 ft-lbs in the OEM differential to as high as 120 ft-lbs in some of the aftermarket offerings. In addition, there are some other issues that have shown to be problematic in the past that the new OS Giken differential addresses, and has done a wonderful job in resolving.
So here is what I am talking about. The OS Giken Differential is what we are calling a low preload, or negative preload differential. In ZF-style differentials, there is always a set amount of preload which is applied to the differential's clutch plates. This is important to these diffs as it keeps one wheel from running away from the other in tight turns, or when you lift a wheel off the ground. The amount of preload normally in a OEM differential will vary with it's wear as well as it's application, usually between about 25 ft-lbs to as high as 120 ft-lbs, although I have seem some street differentials as low as 9 ft-lbs, in the past. This preload is the amount of torque that your car has to overcome before one wheel will slip away inside of the differential and be allowed to spin faster or slower then the opposite wheel. This again is important as it allows the wheels to spin at different speeds, when you are putting your car through a tight turn. It is also important because depending on where this preload is set, it can also determine the amount of heat generated by the differential, as well as the durability of the differential. This preload is always present, so the more you turn your car the more these plates have to give way, therefore the more wear is generated by the interaction of the plates. Preload is usually setup by two beveled Bellville washers that are on either end of the differential. These washers apply pressure to the stack overall and preload is then set by varying the thickness of the Bellvilles.
The OS Giken is different. It uses counter sprung ramps, which means that when there is no or low torque being applied to the differential, it automatically and seamlessly open the differential back up, and in effect allows the differential to act like an open diff. This is especially nice if you have a dual use car that is going to see street operation, as well as track. What this means is when you are trying to park your car, you will not have any issues with the differential getting in the way of turning your car into your spot. In other differentials, especially ones with a higher preload, this can be something of an issue. On the track, it means that when you are entering into a tight turn under braking, say turn one at Miller Motorsports, you will again not have to fight to first overcome the preload of the differential, which can sometime upset the car as it turns in. As a result your turn-in will be more accurate and you will be able to carry a bit more entry speed, potentially.
Here is the next thing that I really like about the OS Giken. It offers up to 100% lockup on the acceleration side of the differential and about 50% on the deceleration side. Both of these lockup %'s can be fully adjusted, as well. The neat thing here is that on the acceleration side this differential acts somewhat similar to a torque biased differential, meaning that the more torque that is applied to the differential the more it will lock up, until it reaches 100%. This is nice as it also means that you will never have to worry about too much lock up or not enough. The OS Giken has shown incredible durability in the past and here is why I believe that is.
When you are not applying constant preload to a differential you are not asking the differential clutch plates to breakaway from each other, when there is no need for them to. (They are already open) The other reason for this differential's long life is due in part to a couple of different reasons. One it does not use extremely porous friction plates, there for it does not generate contaminants that circulate throughout the gearbox, as other ZF-Style differentials do. Instead, this differential uses more clutch plates to share the work load more evenly though out the differential.
The Currently available ZF-style differentials offer up to 8 clutch plates internal to the differential. The OS Giken offers up to 24 clutches depending on the application. In a GT2 / GT3 application it is 28 plates with two of them disengaged. So it is a 24 clutch, 12 per side, differential. Now here is where it get fun, at least for me. LOL Because this differential has 4 X the amount of internal clutch plates, it distributes the work over that same amount. This means that this differential will have incredible life and wear characteristics. To make this differential even stronger, it features a billet steel case that has undergone further chemical strengthening, Forged Steel hand finished spyder gears, that have undergone shot pean for further durability, and a one piece ramp cross, instead of the ZF-style two piece (which has shown to fail from time to time)
Here is the best part, pricing on this new differential is $1990.00 plus shipping.
I am sure that there will be questions that I have not adequately addressed already here, please feel free to ask me more specific questions.
There is one last thing that I think is pretty impressive about this company. In the 9 years that OS Giken has been building LSD's, they have experienced exactly ZERO failures. Not just in the Porsche lineup mind you, but across their entire product offerings. (they make a lot of diffs) This is especially remarkable when you do a bit of research as to who is actually using these diffs. One company that might surprise you, the New Mercedes / McLaren 777 supercar is using this differential.
I hope that was a bit more informative, and please do not hesitate to ask more questions.
Warmest Regards,
Erik Johnson
GBox Performance Transaxles
(303) 440-8899 work
(303) 895-4828 cell
