Used Oil Analysis - 2.7 Boxster
07-15-2009, 09:14 PM
#31
Drifting
Hi Bob , that's why I am asking , we have seen the 06 list and I thought it would be a good opportunity to get hold of a much more current list for every one because the recommendations change all the time and as a sub note very recently I enquired at the Porsche dealership that I worked for for many years about the latest oil recommendations for all 996,997,986 etc and the reply was only Mobil 1 was recommended and nothing else , and I am wondering is that Australia only or is this a new world wide thing as well , any information on this is appreciated .
Regards
BB.
Regards
BB.
07-16-2009, 11:41 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Seems to me that if there are many recorded engine issues / failures and more of them are while using non approved oils that are too low in ZDDPs or too high in detergents, that if someone is advocating an oil that is non approved and then a Porsche trained workshop is asking for reasons why, that this is somewhat ironic. Meaning, that it could be said that it's not in his best interests to dissuade people from using the wrong oil? Interesting...
07-17-2009, 01:35 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
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The lubricant I am using in my Boxster not only meets but exceeds Porsche’s requirements as stated in the Owner’s Manual and as covered by Warranty
It is API Quality rated as SL (2001 and current) for petrol engines and has a 5W-40 viscosity. This exceeds Porsche’s API requirement of SH (1992) or SJ (1996) (both SH & SJ are now obsolete) as stated in the Owner’s Manual and conforms to Porsche’s viscosity requirement of 0W-40 or 5W-40 (or M1 5W-50) according to ambient temperature as stated via TISBs since MY1999-2000 and currently
My car has been under Porsche’s extended Warranty from new and the lubricant I use was approved by Porsche’s official Dealership at purchase time! They actually filled the car with the lubricant!
Previously the engine had run exclusively on M1 0W-40 since build date
It is API Quality rated as SL (2001 and current) for petrol engines and has a 5W-40 viscosity. This exceeds Porsche’s API requirement of SH (1992) or SJ (1996) (both SH & SJ are now obsolete) as stated in the Owner’s Manual and conforms to Porsche’s viscosity requirement of 0W-40 or 5W-40 (or M1 5W-50) according to ambient temperature as stated via TISBs since MY1999-2000 and currently
My car has been under Porsche’s extended Warranty from new and the lubricant I use was approved by Porsche’s official Dealership at purchase time! They actually filled the car with the lubricant!
Previously the engine had run exclusively on M1 0W-40 since build date
07-17-2009, 03:57 AM
#34
Drifting
Hi Doug,
After an extensive call to Porsche cars Australia, PCA does not approve Mobil Delvac(diesel oil) of any kind. In fact they went on to say that if any dealership was caught filling vehicles under extended warranty that they could loose their Porsche dealership licence. Also if the car in question was to have warranty problems, and the car has been running on Mobil Delvac oil there will be no extended warranty.
they do not recommend Mobil Delvac at all. And according to PCA they have never approved the use of Delvac to be used in any Porsche, Particularly if the vehicle has any form of Porsche warranty.
This is from the horses mouth
After an extensive call to Porsche cars Australia, PCA does not approve Mobil Delvac(diesel oil) of any kind. In fact they went on to say that if any dealership was caught filling vehicles under extended warranty that they could loose their Porsche dealership licence. Also if the car in question was to have warranty problems, and the car has been running on Mobil Delvac oil there will be no extended warranty.
they do not recommend Mobil Delvac at all. And according to PCA they have never approved the use of Delvac to be used in any Porsche, Particularly if the vehicle has any form of Porsche warranty.
This is from the horses mouth
07-17-2009, 04:43 AM
#35
Race Director
Umm I am not an oil expert, on the other hand according to the Porsche Technical Bulletin published here:http://www.wrightune.co.uk/downloads/approved_oils.pdf
Mobil 1 5W-40 IS approved for Porsche gasoline engines as is Castrol Syntec 5W-40 and many others, some of which are not available in North America.
Mobil 1 5W-40 IS approved for Porsche gasoline engines as is Castrol Syntec 5W-40 and many others, some of which are not available in North America.
Diesel and gasoline engines differ enough their oil requirements are also different enough that the oil for one engine type not suitable for use in the other type engine.
Sincerely,
Macster.
07-17-2009, 08:31 AM
#36
Rennlist Member
WoW. That's some good information right there guys. I hope anyone reading this will now be able to make a clear decision what NOT to use.
07-17-2009, 09:17 AM
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07-27-2009, 06:36 AM
#39
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Some facts!
Hi,
While I am very reluctant to contribute further to what sadly has now become an edition of the “oil wars” there’s been some personal accusations/assertions made and some Technical mis-information offered up. I hope this Post deals at least with the false accusations!
Firstly, horses ?? – well, it all depends on which end of the horse you try to speak to I suppose! Some people approach them from the rear with quite predictable results!!!
The information in my Post No 33 above is both accurate and correct. I have the Official Porsche “Warranty Extension” documentation dated and signed off continuously by Porsche for my Boxster to prove it! This of course includes the Guarantee and Maintenance booklet – signed, dated and stamped!! And of course they actually poured the lubricant in at OC point!
Porsche would not be able to void a Warranty Claim when the Owner has followed the Owner’s Manual requirements – think about it. Even NA and Australian law precludes this!!!
This has been confirmed by Porsche Cars Australia (PCA) - from the correct end of the horse!
I have owned around 110 motor vehicles in my life. At least 25 of these have been operated under extended Warranty - sometimes out to 800kkms (500k miles) – most with engines costing around $A50k. Many of these vehicles had individual component Warranties as well! I am therefore very well aware of the implications and mutual responsibilities within Warranty matters
I have been extensively involved with Warranty issues for some decades, some with employers (Mercedes Benz being one), and with Volvo, VW, Alfa Romeo to name some other Manufacturers – and during the two most recent decades (1988-2005) in my own Consultancy enterprise covering more engine and vehicle Manufacturers and the Road Transport Industry!
With 50 odd years experience in working with and for Oil Companies and engine Manufacturers (both Euro, Japanese and NA – petrol and diesel) on lubricant formulations and in “in field” testing them, I believe am also suitably qualified to comment on lubricants and motor vehicle lubrication matters!
For instance, using the correct viscosity lubricant is perhaps the single most important lubrication matter for any Porsche owner. That was certainly the confirming message I got during my recent (May 2009) visit to the Nurburgring, to Zuffenhausen and, to Stuttgart’s largest Factory Owned retail dealership! And from Senior people at the Museum! I got the same message at Unterturkheim from my old employer MB - now Daimler AG
So for a Boxster the correct viscosities are either of a 0W-40, 5W-40 or Mobil1 5W-50!
About Delvac 1 5W-40 (or M1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 as it has been known in USA) – this lubricant may well have been tested by Porsche and may well be being sold by Mobil and Esso under another retail name!
M1 0W-40 (SM/CF) and Delvac 1 5W-40 (CI-4/SL) share quite similar formulations with their Group 4 (PAO) and Group 5 (ester) content. This situation is not to be confused with all M1 (PAO) lubricants. In the case of Delvac 1 the Group 5 content is 0, 0-DI-C1-14-Alkyl esters. Esters offer many advantages when blended correctly with PAOs (Poly alpha olefins) and generally they can offer better lubricity (greater film strength etc.), less volatility, controlled detergency with excellent dispersency and etc.
When comparing the chemical structures of same era versions of M1 0W-40 and Delvac 1 5W-40 the following items should be noted:
Phos: M1 1000, D1 1099 (Anti wear and etc) Zinc: M1 975, D1 1275 (Anti wear/oxidation inhibitor and etc)
Calcium: M1 3243, D1 2050 (Used as a DETERGENT chemical and etc)
So what does all this tell us? That M1 0W-40 is actually “much more detergent” than Delvac 1 5W-40?
It tells us nothing really despite all the hype about ZDDP and some other additive levels! It is the total package of the base fluid and the sum of the formulation of the additive package that makes up the lubricant that produces the desired end result – not just a few ingredients!
Sorry to disappoint those that bandy numbers around and who are not experienced Chemists and Blenders within the Oil Industry!
Around forty Mobil 1 5W-40 lubricants have appeared on Porsche’s List over the years (I have all Lists from MY1999) with various formulations – one of these is very likely to be that very same lubricant – Delvac 1 5W-40 - sold in markets other than in NA!
According to my information, seven M1 5W-40 lubricants appeared on the 2007-2010 Porsche Approved List which contained fifty five lubricants (15 Mobil). The reduced number over 1999 (around 100 lubricants were Listed in 1999) and later is most probably due to the introduction of the DI engine families
There are at least twenty two (11 Mobil) lubricants on the 2007-2010 List still having currency as at July 09. As before, around 65% of these are of 5W-40 viscosity and the balance are 0W-40 viscosity plus M1 5W-50! The List is constantly being added to or subtracted from according to formulation changes and new or old product considerations. It is a dynamic and ever changing List!!
So, can anybody prove to me that one of the lubricants on one of the Lists since mY1999 is not in fact Delvac 1 5W-40 under another name? – I can’t!
It should also be noted that I live 800kms (500miles) from the nearest Porsche Dealer! Any Warranty work done on my Boxster has been done for PCA by myself and an excellent local BMW Factory trained Service Provider that I have used for many years
The Service provider has clients with Maseratis (3), Ferraris (4), Porsches (928s (3), Boxsters (3), various 911s (5), 944s (4), Cayennes (3) and a Cayman), Jaguars, Aston Martins, many BMWs, Alfa Romeos (4) and a Rolls Royce or two - amongst many other makes!
For other Posters – please consider the absolute audacity of a Poster checking up on my private Warranty situation. This is certainly audacious behaviour to say the least – and at the most it is a very much more serious matter! I intend looking into this matter further!
While I am very reluctant to contribute further to what sadly has now become an edition of the “oil wars” there’s been some personal accusations/assertions made and some Technical mis-information offered up. I hope this Post deals at least with the false accusations!
Firstly, horses ?? – well, it all depends on which end of the horse you try to speak to I suppose! Some people approach them from the rear with quite predictable results!!!
The information in my Post No 33 above is both accurate and correct. I have the Official Porsche “Warranty Extension” documentation dated and signed off continuously by Porsche for my Boxster to prove it! This of course includes the Guarantee and Maintenance booklet – signed, dated and stamped!! And of course they actually poured the lubricant in at OC point!
Porsche would not be able to void a Warranty Claim when the Owner has followed the Owner’s Manual requirements – think about it. Even NA and Australian law precludes this!!!
This has been confirmed by Porsche Cars Australia (PCA) - from the correct end of the horse!
I have owned around 110 motor vehicles in my life. At least 25 of these have been operated under extended Warranty - sometimes out to 800kkms (500k miles) – most with engines costing around $A50k. Many of these vehicles had individual component Warranties as well! I am therefore very well aware of the implications and mutual responsibilities within Warranty matters
I have been extensively involved with Warranty issues for some decades, some with employers (Mercedes Benz being one), and with Volvo, VW, Alfa Romeo to name some other Manufacturers – and during the two most recent decades (1988-2005) in my own Consultancy enterprise covering more engine and vehicle Manufacturers and the Road Transport Industry!
With 50 odd years experience in working with and for Oil Companies and engine Manufacturers (both Euro, Japanese and NA – petrol and diesel) on lubricant formulations and in “in field” testing them, I believe am also suitably qualified to comment on lubricants and motor vehicle lubrication matters!
For instance, using the correct viscosity lubricant is perhaps the single most important lubrication matter for any Porsche owner. That was certainly the confirming message I got during my recent (May 2009) visit to the Nurburgring, to Zuffenhausen and, to Stuttgart’s largest Factory Owned retail dealership! And from Senior people at the Museum! I got the same message at Unterturkheim from my old employer MB - now Daimler AG
So for a Boxster the correct viscosities are either of a 0W-40, 5W-40 or Mobil1 5W-50!
About Delvac 1 5W-40 (or M1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 as it has been known in USA) – this lubricant may well have been tested by Porsche and may well be being sold by Mobil and Esso under another retail name!
M1 0W-40 (SM/CF) and Delvac 1 5W-40 (CI-4/SL) share quite similar formulations with their Group 4 (PAO) and Group 5 (ester) content. This situation is not to be confused with all M1 (PAO) lubricants. In the case of Delvac 1 the Group 5 content is 0, 0-DI-C1-14-Alkyl esters. Esters offer many advantages when blended correctly with PAOs (Poly alpha olefins) and generally they can offer better lubricity (greater film strength etc.), less volatility, controlled detergency with excellent dispersency and etc.
When comparing the chemical structures of same era versions of M1 0W-40 and Delvac 1 5W-40 the following items should be noted:
Phos: M1 1000, D1 1099 (Anti wear and etc) Zinc: M1 975, D1 1275 (Anti wear/oxidation inhibitor and etc)
Calcium: M1 3243, D1 2050 (Used as a DETERGENT chemical and etc)
So what does all this tell us? That M1 0W-40 is actually “much more detergent” than Delvac 1 5W-40?
It tells us nothing really despite all the hype about ZDDP and some other additive levels! It is the total package of the base fluid and the sum of the formulation of the additive package that makes up the lubricant that produces the desired end result – not just a few ingredients!
Sorry to disappoint those that bandy numbers around and who are not experienced Chemists and Blenders within the Oil Industry!
Around forty Mobil 1 5W-40 lubricants have appeared on Porsche’s List over the years (I have all Lists from MY1999) with various formulations – one of these is very likely to be that very same lubricant – Delvac 1 5W-40 - sold in markets other than in NA!
According to my information, seven M1 5W-40 lubricants appeared on the 2007-2010 Porsche Approved List which contained fifty five lubricants (15 Mobil). The reduced number over 1999 (around 100 lubricants were Listed in 1999) and later is most probably due to the introduction of the DI engine families
There are at least twenty two (11 Mobil) lubricants on the 2007-2010 List still having currency as at July 09. As before, around 65% of these are of 5W-40 viscosity and the balance are 0W-40 viscosity plus M1 5W-50! The List is constantly being added to or subtracted from according to formulation changes and new or old product considerations. It is a dynamic and ever changing List!!
So, can anybody prove to me that one of the lubricants on one of the Lists since mY1999 is not in fact Delvac 1 5W-40 under another name? – I can’t!
It should also be noted that I live 800kms (500miles) from the nearest Porsche Dealer! Any Warranty work done on my Boxster has been done for PCA by myself and an excellent local BMW Factory trained Service Provider that I have used for many years
The Service provider has clients with Maseratis (3), Ferraris (4), Porsches (928s (3), Boxsters (3), various 911s (5), 944s (4), Cayennes (3) and a Cayman), Jaguars, Aston Martins, many BMWs, Alfa Romeos (4) and a Rolls Royce or two - amongst many other makes!
For other Posters – please consider the absolute audacity of a Poster checking up on my private Warranty situation. This is certainly audacious behaviour to say the least – and at the most it is a very much more serious matter! I intend looking into this matter further!
07-27-2009, 09:58 AM
#40
Drifting
Doug , Mobil Delvac Diesel oil has never been approved to be used in any petrol/ gasoline powered Porsche by Mobil (who make the oil) or Porsche for any 986 (Boxter) or any other Porsche for that matter and there is nothing you or I can say to change that full stop .
Porsche can not endorse or approve something that they do not have on their approval list , particularly in this emission conscience era , I know it and I thought you would to .
You can actually see that you recognized the position that you put your self in by the phrasing differences as this thread went along}
Post number 4
Quote { It was endorsed for use in this vehicle by Porsche AG under their warranty programme }.End of quote .
Then the change
Post number 33
Quote { My car has been under Porsche's extended warranty from new and the lubricant I use was approved by Porsche's official dealership at purchase time ,they actually filled the car with the lubricant }.End of quote .
So I take it from the change that it started off implying that Porsche AG endorsed it and ended up as a dealership in QLd somewhere was happy to install an oil that the new owner of a second hand car asked to be used . Is that a fair summary ?
And please to not flatter your self ,there is no way I or you or any one else can obtain warranty status on one particular car over the phone or any details other than generalities(you know that) , but what you can get is the official response to questions like
A) Does Porsche Recommend the use of Delvac Diesel oil in a Boxter or 996 etc etc ?
Answer = No
B) If a Porsche was under any for of warranty(new or extended used) , can this use of non approved Diesel oil interfere or cause potential warranty issues in relation to engine or catalytic converters claims while it was under warranty ?
Answer = Yes , because Porsche like all other car manufactures are in the cross hairs of environmental lobby groups and no corporation needs extra heat in any way endorsing anything that can be shown to be un environmental , no matter how small , hence the approval list .
Now Doug , time at last for you to finally reveal why you push this high detergent Diesel oil over what Mobil and Porsche recommend ,in your opinion is there something wrong with M1 ?.
BB
Porsche can not endorse or approve something that they do not have on their approval list , particularly in this emission conscience era , I know it and I thought you would to .
You can actually see that you recognized the position that you put your self in by the phrasing differences as this thread went along}
Post number 4
Quote { It was endorsed for use in this vehicle by Porsche AG under their warranty programme }.End of quote .
Then the change
Post number 33
Quote { My car has been under Porsche's extended warranty from new and the lubricant I use was approved by Porsche's official dealership at purchase time ,they actually filled the car with the lubricant }.End of quote .
So I take it from the change that it started off implying that Porsche AG endorsed it and ended up as a dealership in QLd somewhere was happy to install an oil that the new owner of a second hand car asked to be used . Is that a fair summary ?
And please to not flatter your self ,there is no way I or you or any one else can obtain warranty status on one particular car over the phone or any details other than generalities(you know that) , but what you can get is the official response to questions like
A) Does Porsche Recommend the use of Delvac Diesel oil in a Boxter or 996 etc etc ?
Answer = No
B) If a Porsche was under any for of warranty(new or extended used) , can this use of non approved Diesel oil interfere or cause potential warranty issues in relation to engine or catalytic converters claims while it was under warranty ?
Answer = Yes , because Porsche like all other car manufactures are in the cross hairs of environmental lobby groups and no corporation needs extra heat in any way endorsing anything that can be shown to be un environmental , no matter how small , hence the approval list .
Now Doug , time at last for you to finally reveal why you push this high detergent Diesel oil over what Mobil and Porsche recommend ,in your opinion is there something wrong with M1 ?.
BB
07-27-2009, 11:44 AM
#41
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This is one of the reason I like Blackstone Labs. Yes I get all the technical PPM readings and trends. I like this personal touch.
RICK: Nice general improvement in wear. This oil was run longer than the last, so the drop in wear is
surprising and a very good sign that your Porsche is free of any mechanical problems. The oil was Mobil 1
0W/40 and it appears to be doing a good job for you. The viscosity was okay for this grade, and no fuel
dilution or other harmful contaminants were present. Silicon was fine at 10 ppm, so the engine's air filter is
still getting the job done. At 69,334 total miles, we think this engine was doing very well and you could even
run the oil longer next time. Try 4500 miles.
My personal limit is one year or 7500 miles. Since I retired she does not make that mark any more.
RICK: Nice general improvement in wear. This oil was run longer than the last, so the drop in wear is
surprising and a very good sign that your Porsche is free of any mechanical problems. The oil was Mobil 1
0W/40 and it appears to be doing a good job for you. The viscosity was okay for this grade, and no fuel
dilution or other harmful contaminants were present. Silicon was fine at 10 ppm, so the engine's air filter is
still getting the job done. At 69,334 total miles, we think this engine was doing very well and you could even
run the oil longer next time. Try 4500 miles.
My personal limit is one year or 7500 miles. Since I retired she does not make that mark any more.
