Clutch replacement - Don't be a jacka$$ like me
06-14-2009, 02:21 PM
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Clutch replacement - Don't be a jacka$$ like me
Hi folks. My first post over here in Boxsterland. So I am helping a neighbor install a new RMS, IMS support, Aasco LWFW, spring hub clutch, "sport" pressure plate and new TO bearing. We get it all together, ready to back it off of the lift, and the clutch doesn't disengage, so it won't go into gear. ARRRGGGHHH!!!!!
All of the parts went together quite well (aside from some frustration with the RMS). I couldn't figure out what was wrong. Try simple things first... bleed and test clutch hydraulics. No, they're just fine. Well, it's time to bite the bullet and pull the tranny back out to see what the heck went wrong.
First thing I noticed, was that the new pressure plate spring fingers did not protrude nearly as far out of the center as the old pressure plate. Maybe it could be a wrong part and I could blame the vendor? A quick measurement proved that theory wrong. The new pressure plate is just a bit different but it should function just fine.
I then took off the pressure plate and inspected the clutch disk. That was the problem!!! I had put the clutch disk in backwards! Tail between legs, I admit my mistake to my neighbor. The thing is, I carefully thought about the orientation of the disk when I installed it the first time. Nowhere did I see a marking on the disk that said "flywheel" or "pressure plate", nor was there any literature that had a good picture of the orientation, including the Bentley manual.
There's a tall side that has the spring hub mechanism protruding, and the other side is nearly flat. I chose to put the flat side down because it looked like the spring hub would interfere with the flywheel if the tall part were installed facing the flywheel. When I inspected the disk, I could see some tiny score marks where the pressure plate had barely hit the spring retainers on the clutch disk.
Long story short, we put it back in the correct way, and the clutch now operates just fine. My pride and knuckles are a bit hurt, but both will survive the ordeal.
Moral of the story: if you're installing the Aasco LWFW and spring center clutch, the tall side of the disk faces the flywheel.
Cheers
All of the parts went together quite well (aside from some frustration with the RMS). I couldn't figure out what was wrong. Try simple things first... bleed and test clutch hydraulics. No, they're just fine. Well, it's time to bite the bullet and pull the tranny back out to see what the heck went wrong.
First thing I noticed, was that the new pressure plate spring fingers did not protrude nearly as far out of the center as the old pressure plate. Maybe it could be a wrong part and I could blame the vendor? A quick measurement proved that theory wrong. The new pressure plate is just a bit different but it should function just fine.
I then took off the pressure plate and inspected the clutch disk. That was the problem!!! I had put the clutch disk in backwards! Tail between legs, I admit my mistake to my neighbor. The thing is, I carefully thought about the orientation of the disk when I installed it the first time. Nowhere did I see a marking on the disk that said "flywheel" or "pressure plate", nor was there any literature that had a good picture of the orientation, including the Bentley manual.
There's a tall side that has the spring hub mechanism protruding, and the other side is nearly flat. I chose to put the flat side down because it looked like the spring hub would interfere with the flywheel if the tall part were installed facing the flywheel. When I inspected the disk, I could see some tiny score marks where the pressure plate had barely hit the spring retainers on the clutch disk.
Long story short, we put it back in the correct way, and the clutch now operates just fine. My pride and knuckles are a bit hurt, but both will survive the ordeal.
Moral of the story: if you're installing the Aasco LWFW and spring center clutch, the tall side of the disk faces the flywheel.
Cheers
06-16-2009, 01:13 AM
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First, before I respond, I'll ask my question in case you don't want to read my full post:
At the end of the job, we now have a check engine light. The code is:
P0444 EVAP Canister Purge Valve - Open Circuit
I'm assuming I knocked off a vacuum line somewhere in the engine bay.
We also had codes for misfires on cylinders 2 and 5. The battery had run really low during the job with the doors open and opening/closing the convertible top. Originally, I was worried about having allowed the timing chain to slip with the tensioners loosened, but the fact that there are misfires on both banks of the engine, makes me think it's related to a vacuum leak or something else. Anybody have ideas?
Now to my responses and general blabbing about the job:
I figured I'd post the info on the clutch disk because I had done some searching and didn't come up with any answers. Not even on PelicanBBS, where they sell these parts. Also, as a side note, there was not retaining clip on the new pressure plate which was discussed in some posts I read. This is the retaining clip that if you let it go before the stars are in perfect alignment, all hell breaks loose and you need to get the special tool. I still haven't been able to find a photo or clear explanation of this clip, but we just didn't have it.
The IMS support was the factory replacement part from Sunset which includes the new ribbed type seal instead of the older O-ring seal. I also replaced the 3 bolts securing the support as well as the 4 bolts holding the rear of the crankcase together.
The process of swapping out the IMS support was fairly straightforward. Before the job, I read a writeup of the process. The only tricky/scary part of the process was loosening the chain tensioners. In all reality, it wasn't that bad just a bit un-nerving to allow potential slack on the timing chain(s). The writeup talked about loosening the large 32mm bolts, but not to let the bolt come completely out. Once I pulled out the old support, the shaft itself migrated slightly to the top right of the open bore. This was the reason to loosen the tensioners. It moved back into place with some gentle tapping-in of the new shaft support.
The RMS was also a pain to re-install. Removal was really easy with a small hole drilled in the rim of the old seal. I didn't have the "special tool" to install the new RMS, so I made my own from a 4" plastic drain pipe fitting. Tapping in the new seal was really hard because the seal kept wanting to go in "cockeyed". I'd almost get there, and it would go in too far on one side. Thankfully, I had prepared for this eventuality and purchased two seals to allow myself a do-over.
We followed up with a new water pump, hose, idler/tensioner pulleys and a belt. The top idler pulley gave me a run for my money as well. Inconveniently, the pulley's axis bolt is also used as a mount for the alternator. In order to get this bolt out, I had to twist the alternator around a bit. Not that big of a deal, but getting the holes to line up with the new pulley on the bolt was a real hassle. The book says to loosen the alternator bolt a couple of turns and tap on it to slightly press out the bushing in the rear of the alternator, which should release its death grip on the mounting bracket. This didn't happen like the book said it would. The alternator just didn't want to line back up with the slot in the mounting bracket. Two hours later, I finally got the bolt to thread into that dag blasted hole. Talk about a waste of time!
Yes, humble pie...
At the end of the job, we now have a check engine light. The code is:
P0444 EVAP Canister Purge Valve - Open Circuit
I'm assuming I knocked off a vacuum line somewhere in the engine bay.
We also had codes for misfires on cylinders 2 and 5. The battery had run really low during the job with the doors open and opening/closing the convertible top. Originally, I was worried about having allowed the timing chain to slip with the tensioners loosened, but the fact that there are misfires on both banks of the engine, makes me think it's related to a vacuum leak or something else. Anybody have ideas?
Now to my responses and general blabbing about the job:
I figured I'd post the info on the clutch disk because I had done some searching and didn't come up with any answers. Not even on PelicanBBS, where they sell these parts. Also, as a side note, there was not retaining clip on the new pressure plate which was discussed in some posts I read. This is the retaining clip that if you let it go before the stars are in perfect alignment, all hell breaks loose and you need to get the special tool. I still haven't been able to find a photo or clear explanation of this clip, but we just didn't have it.
The IMS support was the factory replacement part from Sunset which includes the new ribbed type seal instead of the older O-ring seal. I also replaced the 3 bolts securing the support as well as the 4 bolts holding the rear of the crankcase together.
The process of swapping out the IMS support was fairly straightforward. Before the job, I read a writeup of the process. The only tricky/scary part of the process was loosening the chain tensioners. In all reality, it wasn't that bad just a bit un-nerving to allow potential slack on the timing chain(s). The writeup talked about loosening the large 32mm bolts, but not to let the bolt come completely out. Once I pulled out the old support, the shaft itself migrated slightly to the top right of the open bore. This was the reason to loosen the tensioners. It moved back into place with some gentle tapping-in of the new shaft support.
The RMS was also a pain to re-install. Removal was really easy with a small hole drilled in the rim of the old seal. I didn't have the "special tool" to install the new RMS, so I made my own from a 4" plastic drain pipe fitting. Tapping in the new seal was really hard because the seal kept wanting to go in "cockeyed". I'd almost get there, and it would go in too far on one side. Thankfully, I had prepared for this eventuality and purchased two seals to allow myself a do-over.
We followed up with a new water pump, hose, idler/tensioner pulleys and a belt. The top idler pulley gave me a run for my money as well. Inconveniently, the pulley's axis bolt is also used as a mount for the alternator. In order to get this bolt out, I had to twist the alternator around a bit. Not that big of a deal, but getting the holes to line up with the new pulley on the bolt was a real hassle. The book says to loosen the alternator bolt a couple of turns and tap on it to slightly press out the bushing in the rear of the alternator, which should release its death grip on the mounting bracket. This didn't happen like the book said it would. The alternator just didn't want to line back up with the slot in the mounting bracket. Two hours later, I finally got the bolt to thread into that dag blasted hole. Talk about a waste of time!
Yes, humble pie...
06-16-2009, 09:18 PM
#6
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The IMS support was the factory replacement part from Sunset which includes the new ribbed type seal instead of the older O-ring seal. I also replaced the 3 bolts securing the support as well as the 4 bolts holding the rear of the crankcase together.
The process of swapping out the IMS support was fairly straightforward. Before the job, I read a writeup of the process. The only tricky/scary part of the process was loosening the chain tensioners. In all reality, it wasn't that bad just a bit un-nerving to allow potential slack on the timing chain(s). The writeup talked about loosening the large 32mm bolts, but not to let the bolt come completely out. Once I pulled out the old support, the shaft itself migrated slightly to the top right of the open bore. This was the reason to loosen the tensioners. It moved back into place with some gentle tapping-in of the new shaft support.
Yes, humble pie...
The process of swapping out the IMS support was fairly straightforward. Before the job, I read a writeup of the process. The only tricky/scary part of the process was loosening the chain tensioners. In all reality, it wasn't that bad just a bit un-nerving to allow potential slack on the timing chain(s). The writeup talked about loosening the large 32mm bolts, but not to let the bolt come completely out. Once I pulled out the old support, the shaft itself migrated slightly to the top right of the open bore. This was the reason to loosen the tensioners. It moved back into place with some gentle tapping-in of the new shaft support.
Yes, humble pie...
what write ups/articles could you point us to regarding this IMS support? I am positively interested.
P.S. he humble pie comment was in no way a slight, hope it did not come off that way.
06-18-2009, 03:15 AM
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I read a write up that I think was from the flatsixinnovations webpage, but for the life of me, I can't seem to find it again. Maybe it was on pelican, renntech... Sorry, I just can't find it again. I thought I had made a link in my bookmarks.
Really, we should have probably done the retrofit from LN/Flatsix, but I wanted to have all of the parts on hand before we cracked things open. Since we didn't know if there was a single or dual row bearing in there, we didn't know if the retrofit would work. We just opted for the cover plate and three new screws.
Now if I can just locate the cause of the blasted check engine light (P0444). That's really putting a damper on my enthusiasm for having finished the big job.
Cheers
