Noise in '00 Boxster S
12-30-2008, 02:24 PM
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Noise in '00 Boxster S
Ahhhhhhhhhh. Now is it my turn? My 2000 Boxster S with 50,000 miles on it, and well maintained, this morning had a clicking sound as soon as I started it. From experience with my '60s English 4 banger, it is not as loud or deep as a thrown rod. I'd say it would be more like the valves clacking from not having the oil making its way up to the rockers. But, that's my only frame of reference. I don't know how those types of things would sound on a Boxster.
My gardener happened to be there when I started it and he said there was smoke coming out. But, I don't know if that wasn't just normal start up puffs or more serious. I didn't start the car again just to find out.
I have it set to flat bed to my mechanic. He thinks/hopes it's oil separators.
Any similar experiences resulting in worse?
My gardener happened to be there when I started it and he said there was smoke coming out. But, I don't know if that wasn't just normal start up puffs or more serious. I didn't start the car again just to find out.
I have it set to flat bed to my mechanic. He thinks/hopes it's oil separators.
Any similar experiences resulting in worse?
12-31-2008, 12:27 PM
#3
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If noise persistent could be serious. Not knowing how long engine sat before being started not uncommon for these engines to be a bit noisy upon a restart after a long (days/weeks) of no use.
It is not unknown too for a engine that sits unused for a long time to shed engine deposits that end upon in combustion chamber and this can make a bit of racket as it gets pounded to dust and blown out of exhaust ports. If the stuff fouls the valve seat this "ticking" noise can persist a bit until the valve action finally removes this.
Smoking likely just the smoking that these engines sometimes do.
You didn't say how long you ran engine before shutting it off.
OTOH, the ticking can be an early warning sign of pending IMS failure. Generally one doesn't get much warning cause the failure occurs while one is driving and the IMS goes from good to bad to failed in about as much time as it takes to read this sentence but if the failure occurs upon startup then you may have received an early warning of pending failure.
If car under warranty let dealer sort it out.
If car not under warranty this can be a problem. Dealer might want to tear into engine to diagnose source of problem and if is IMS then you could be facing no litttle expense in dealer's investigation only to be told its IMS and its fatal and on top of diagnosis bill you're facing bill to replace engine.
Some engines that have IMS failure that have been caught in time have been removed, torn down, and fixed, but at some considerable expense. And you have to be sure dealer doing this has experience and you have air tight warranty on work and parts should engine grenade after "repair" due to something missed during repair or due to a new part suffering premature failure and taking engine out with it.
Sincerely,
Macster.
It is not unknown too for a engine that sits unused for a long time to shed engine deposits that end upon in combustion chamber and this can make a bit of racket as it gets pounded to dust and blown out of exhaust ports. If the stuff fouls the valve seat this "ticking" noise can persist a bit until the valve action finally removes this.
Smoking likely just the smoking that these engines sometimes do.
You didn't say how long you ran engine before shutting it off.
OTOH, the ticking can be an early warning sign of pending IMS failure. Generally one doesn't get much warning cause the failure occurs while one is driving and the IMS goes from good to bad to failed in about as much time as it takes to read this sentence but if the failure occurs upon startup then you may have received an early warning of pending failure.
If car under warranty let dealer sort it out.
If car not under warranty this can be a problem. Dealer might want to tear into engine to diagnose source of problem and if is IMS then you could be facing no litttle expense in dealer's investigation only to be told its IMS and its fatal and on top of diagnosis bill you're facing bill to replace engine.
Some engines that have IMS failure that have been caught in time have been removed, torn down, and fixed, but at some considerable expense. And you have to be sure dealer doing this has experience and you have air tight warranty on work and parts should engine grenade after "repair" due to something missed during repair or due to a new part suffering premature failure and taking engine out with it.
Sincerely,
Macster.
01-01-2009, 08:55 PM
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No additives. Just drove it 2 days before, and drive it daily about 15 miles each way. (Then I take the train the rest of the way).
Well, we'll see on Monday when it gets towed to the mechanic.
I'll let you know what he finds.
I did read some of those threads on IMS. I can say that I don't lug the engine, and tend to drive in the 2.5-4.5+ rpm range, but do push it to redline from time to time. If I can't do that, what the heck is the purpose of owning a Porsche! I also, to the bain of clutch savers, down shift with a blip of the throttle ALL the time - again, what's the point of having a Porsche if you can't enjoy the song of deceleration!? Of course, I've done it on my 911 for 20 years and only changed the clutch because the engine was out for a rebuild.
I will say that my engine does have a humming vibration at about 2900 - 3000. I remember reading ages ago that that was a common issue with the clutch, but no an issue. Maybe there is an IMS connection that others didn't put together with the IMS failure because they didn't notice the vibration.
Despite all that, I'm still hoping for the oil separator - whatever that is.
Well, we'll see on Monday when it gets towed to the mechanic.
I'll let you know what he finds.
I did read some of those threads on IMS. I can say that I don't lug the engine, and tend to drive in the 2.5-4.5+ rpm range, but do push it to redline from time to time. If I can't do that, what the heck is the purpose of owning a Porsche! I also, to the bain of clutch savers, down shift with a blip of the throttle ALL the time - again, what's the point of having a Porsche if you can't enjoy the song of deceleration!? Of course, I've done it on my 911 for 20 years and only changed the clutch because the engine was out for a rebuild.
I will say that my engine does have a humming vibration at about 2900 - 3000. I remember reading ages ago that that was a common issue with the clutch, but no an issue. Maybe there is an IMS connection that others didn't put together with the IMS failure because they didn't notice the vibration.
Despite all that, I'm still hoping for the oil separator - whatever that is.
01-02-2009, 12:35 AM
#5
Race Director
Just my opinion based on reading (too) many posts on subject but I don't think normal or reasonable driving has anything to do with IMS.
In fact, given quite a few cars are tracked and IMS doesn't seem to happen to these cars with any more frequency than those not tracked I don't think unreasonable (so to speak) driving plays a role either.
That vibration you speak of is not a clutch symptom I'm aware of. There is a resonance flap/valve in the intake that changes position (under engine controller control) at 3000 rpm when rpms climbing and then changes its position back when rpms dropping below that 3000 rpm threshold and this accounts for some of that vibration in that rpm range.
If someone wanted to bother he could disable this flap function I think by disconnecting control from wiring harness or something similar and see if vibration gone, worse or unchanged. Not recommending you do this cause I can't tell you exactly what to do and I do not know if there's any risk of engine damage or resonance flap controller damage. Probably not but I'm not willing to risk it.
Other factors can be a front motor mount with its rubber portion cracked.
Even with cars with no problems the vibration varies from time to time depending road surface and other factors like tire condition, inflation pressures and the like. Sometimes the vibration is more pronounced in my '02 (but never intrusive or severe enough to cause me any alarm or concern) and sometimes it is hardly, barely noticeable, noted only by its absence at that time.
AOS (air/oil separator) can be bad but having gone through two of them with my '02 Boxster vibration at any rpm was not a symptom.
And there are numerous other possible causes for the clicking sound you hear. A few unfortunately serious but most not so serious though serious enough to warrant fixing.
Be very interesting to see what your mechanic has to say.
Sincerely,
Macster.
In fact, given quite a few cars are tracked and IMS doesn't seem to happen to these cars with any more frequency than those not tracked I don't think unreasonable (so to speak) driving plays a role either.
That vibration you speak of is not a clutch symptom I'm aware of. There is a resonance flap/valve in the intake that changes position (under engine controller control) at 3000 rpm when rpms climbing and then changes its position back when rpms dropping below that 3000 rpm threshold and this accounts for some of that vibration in that rpm range.
If someone wanted to bother he could disable this flap function I think by disconnecting control from wiring harness or something similar and see if vibration gone, worse or unchanged. Not recommending you do this cause I can't tell you exactly what to do and I do not know if there's any risk of engine damage or resonance flap controller damage. Probably not but I'm not willing to risk it.
Other factors can be a front motor mount with its rubber portion cracked.
Even with cars with no problems the vibration varies from time to time depending road surface and other factors like tire condition, inflation pressures and the like. Sometimes the vibration is more pronounced in my '02 (but never intrusive or severe enough to cause me any alarm or concern) and sometimes it is hardly, barely noticeable, noted only by its absence at that time.
AOS (air/oil separator) can be bad but having gone through two of them with my '02 Boxster vibration at any rpm was not a symptom.
And there are numerous other possible causes for the clicking sound you hear. A few unfortunately serious but most not so serious though serious enough to warrant fixing.
Be very interesting to see what your mechanic has to say.
Sincerely,
Macster.
01-06-2009, 07:17 PM
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Well a good update, I think. After towing it to the mechanic, and he carefully examined everything, he started it up and had a bunch of smoke, but no undue sounds. He found a little excess oil in the intake, but not a terrible amount. He replaced the oil separator because when the diaphram ruptures you can get symptoms like these. He said that a failing chain tensioner can have sporatic issues. But, he said he doesn't think it happened here.
Note that I do regularly park the car on an incline, rear of the car downhill. I've asked before if that can be an issue. But, I've been told that the oil pickup should still be fine. I hope that hasn't contributed to this.
Thanks for all the input.
Note that I do regularly park the car on an incline, rear of the car downhill. I've asked before if that can be an issue. But, I've been told that the oil pickup should still be fine. I hope that hasn't contributed to this.
Thanks for all the input.
01-06-2009, 11:44 PM
#7
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I've parked my car on incline with rear down and down to right seems....
Well a good update, I think. After towing it to the mechanic, and he carefully examined everything, he started it up and had a bunch of smoke, but no undue sounds. He found a little excess oil in the intake, but not a terrible amount. He replaced the oil separator because when the diaphram ruptures you can get symptoms like these. He said that a failing chain tensioner can have sporatic issues. But, he said he doesn't think it happened here.
Note that I do regularly park the car on an incline, rear of the car downhill. I've asked before if that can be an issue. But, I've been told that the oil pickup should still be fine. I hope that hasn't contributed to this.
Thanks for all the input.
Note that I do regularly park the car on an incline, rear of the car downhill. I've asked before if that can be an issue. But, I've been told that the oil pickup should still be fine. I hope that hasn't contributed to this.
Thanks for all the input.
Oil sump still has the same amount of oil in it when you start engine as when you shut engine off, just the display is fooled cause the oil level/temperature sensor is located positioned towards the left front quadrant of the oil sump.
The oil pickup is designed to be covered with oil even under the most violent braking/cornering actions even when on steep downhill or uphill grades, so a bit of a tilt to the car's engine when stationary is nothing to really worry about. Nothing short of putting car on its side or roof should see the oil pickup uncovered.
Glad noise gone. A zero lash valve adjuster might have bled down. They each have a check ball to prevent this but a piece of tiny debris might be caught and allow one to bleed down and it could take a bit of time to pump back up again. Sort of hard to believe but possible. Lifter only receives direct oil pressure when valve closed and lifter all the way up in its lifter bore where there's a hole in the lifter bore that feeds oil into this groove around the lifter the groove with a hole in it that feeds oil into the lifter zero lash adjustment piston proper.
Sincerely,
Macster.
