LUCKe27

Now that my daughter has turned 16 and is driving my Maxima fairly often, I was thinking of buying a Boxster as my daily driver (only 18 miles round trip). My initiial impression was great values out there ('00 and '01 S's out there for $16k to $19k). After digging around some more, it seems that the engine reliability has really been called into question. I certainly don't want to pay $17k for a car with less than 40k miles and then drop another $10k on a new engine (at that point, I could have bought a newer 911). Any advice for a potential first-time Boxster buyer? Thanks, Kevin

arenared

Nobody knows the failure rates of various parts except for Porsche, and they ain't telling. All cars have parts that fail, but let's say the odds of an intermediate shaft giving up the ghost are as high as 20%? Then, that's really $2K not $10K as the expected cost difference. It seems all M96 engines have some possibility of RMS leaks and IMS failures. Even the 997 GT3s seem to have RMS problems. Then again, maybe that's why early Boxsters are going for nothing. I think it will be difficult to find as much fun for the $. Mine is a Y2K Boxster S with no RMS and no IMS failures, and it is a HOOT! There's no way I would sell it (unless I won the Lotto or similar).

The problem is not so serious if you consider that there are people out there waiting for their engine to fail to have an excuse to put in a 3.6, and they don't fail. If mine died, that is exactly what I would do (or maybe a 3.8 or 4.0L). There are Boxsters with over 100K miles on them. Mileage doesn't seem to have any correlation with failure. If anything, higher mileage may have withstood the test of time.

LUCKe27

Thanks for your thoughts. Since you have a '00 S, what do you think I should be willing to pay for one in good condition with 37k miles?

schwank

I basically second everything arenared said. After one year we love our car. The chance of failure is a risk but at 60K miles we hopefully have evidence our motor is ok. The one up side is the low entry price for such a level of performance. Both my wife and I enjoy the car very much. We daily drive it pretty much what you are talking about lucke... maybe 20 miles a day. But it gets some additional miles on pleasure drives rather often. If it failed I would pretty much do the same thing... 3.6L. And some PSS-9's.

For the car you mention, 00 S with 37k miles, I would say $18-20K.

dennisafrompa

...mine failed at 63,000....no mile mark is safe.This was my SECOND failure in 3 cars. Interesting, at a rally I ran for Reisentoter PCA, of 11 participants there were THREE people who experienced FOUR IMS failures.

So what are the %.....who knows, but I'm betting its bigger than you think.

LUCKe27

How expensive do you think it would be to buy a 3.6L ... would you try to get it from a wreck? And forgive my lack of knowledge, what are PSS-9's? Thanks, Kevin

Coochas

Bilstein PSS9 adjustable coilovers.

From the Bilstein website for PSS9 and PSS10:
This "race inspired" system provides the ultimate in high performance tuning. The manually adjustable damping monotube gas shock absorbers feature 9 or 10-stage precise compression and rebound settings, from comfort to competition. The threaded body allows accurate adjustability of the front and rear progressive rate springs to achieve the vehicle ride height, center of gravity and level of performance handling desired.

The Bilstein B16 system puts you in complete control, providing the kind of precise suspension tuning formerly available only on race cars. From a weekend of cempetition to daily driving, this system provides perfect handling performance for every situation.

arenared

dennisafrompa, I know you got burned TWICE, and I feel for you. But of the 986 and 996 owners I personally have known reasonably well (granted that's maybe 10), none of them had engine failures. The only engine failures I personally know of are "online".

flipper

Are the 99 2.5's prone to IMS failures? I thought I read somewhere they have a different motor.

Turboflyer

Does anyone think Porsche will eventually do to the 3.2 what they have done for the new 911s, no IMS? Now that would be the engine for replacement.

MikeBat

I cannot see wy Porsche would deviate from the current 2.7 and 3.4 L engine capcities.

That said, because of how closely the Carrera family and Boxster family engines are, it would only seem logical that the technology in the new Carreras will translate into the new Cayman and Boxster.

DFI, no IMS, better RMS seal, PDK.... etc.

mikefocke

1. Read the December issue of Excellence magazine beginning on page 161

2. The M96 engine is used in the base Boxster from 1997 thru at least 2010 model years and the S model from 2000 thru 2008. Thus all 986 and 987 model Boxsters and Caymans built to date have the same basic engine design. There have been relatively minor changes along the way.

3. An IMS-less engine is reputed to be in the 2010 model year S model. Nothing I've heard tells us it can be a replacement for the M96.

Every engine has weak points and can fail. This has been just an especially well publicized mode of failure because of the devotion and shared knowledge of the owners.

There are improved third party replacement parts for the bores, pistons, rods, crankshaft, IMS, etc etc. There are total replacement engines available with many improved parts. Cheap, no. Porsche engines have always been expensive to maintain.

Highest mileage M96 Boxster I know of is a base 2.7 litre with 200k+ miles and rolling. No major issues.

arenared

That the Boxsters and Caymans get DFI engines across the board is just a matter of time. Personally, I would not want one of the first DFI engines out of the chute, either.

I am appalled at Porsche's attitude towards these failures (however common or not as they may be) as it is destroying the brand. The new 997 GT3s seem to have much more common RMS leaks, and Porsche is sticking their noses up at owners of these top-line engines even though they are under warranty. That does not encourage brand loyalty.

arenared

3.6L are not plug-and-play. There are differences in electronics compatibility and such that need a shop experienced with this type of conversion. Over time, there is becoming more knowledge in retrofitting these 911 engines. There is even one DIYer that has done several, so it's not impossible.

Also, aftermarket rebuilders are stepping in with possibilities of larger bores, etc., while addressing some of the weaknesses. Larger-displacement/rebuilt engines are not cheap either. I would figure $15K and up depending on what else you do along with it. But, let's say you've got $40K into it with the car, maybe some suspension upgrades, etc., -- assuming the motor blew up. That's still a monster of a car for $40K and quite possibly more reliable.

If you are serious about wanting a larger engine, then I believe the '03+ have "better" electronics for the conversion. I guess if you were really serious, you could find an '03+ with a blown engine and start there, but that is not a small undertaking for being new to Boxsters.

I guess what a lot of us are saying is the early Boxsters (and 996s) are a tremendous value and a huge amount of fun. Nothing is guaranteed in a used car out of warranty, but if something does happen, take advantage of the situation knowing you got a great deal to begin with.

racer

Also remember that more folks complain when there is a problem than praise when there isn't one. As mentioned, there are alternatives when an engine does fail. Whether it be an upgraded/larger motor or a direct replacement.

When I looked into getting a Boxster, for me it would be either a 2.7 (MY2000 or newer) or a 3.2l Seems 2000's are now in the $14-16K range with ealry 3.2s getting a few K more. I would hold out for an S if you can, but then again, I really loved my 2.7.

Lots of folks swear by getting an aftermarket warranty if the car can't be CPO'd