Boxster s or 993 or 3.2
04-10-2007, 11:41 PM
#16
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Vampyre-
What I meant by "eh... whatever" was just that... whatever. The implication was somewhat toward what you were saying, hence the reason I BOLDED the "AND MONEY" part of my statement; truth-be-told, I'll never understand why people who HAD to put tens of thousands of dollars into their car to make it remotely competitive feel the need to talk over people who buy their car from the dealer, take it straight to the track, and can post an impressive time. Also- I agree that the Talon reference was a bit un-asked-for... I guess I was just being a little more diplomatic about calling it out!!
I remember the anecdote that back-in-the-day, when people would organize races at local tracks, the muscle-car crowd would pull in with their purpose-built cars on their trailers, the Euro-car crowd would trailer their modded cars into the raceway and then home again after, and the Porsche guys (predom. 911s) would drive their stock car from home to the track, beat the snot out of the field, then drive home.
THAT'S a sportscar, and THAT'S why I've owned Porsches for the better part of my driving life.
I guess in that vane, the answer to the question posted (to remain SLIGHTLY on-topic), is that ANY Porsche will give you the greatest driving experience of your life. I've driven a lot of fast-as-stink cars (even raced a Viper and an Esprit V8TT), but nothing has ever given me the Perma-Grin like a Porsche!!!
In fact, BUY ALL THREE ROB!!!
Dave
San Diego
What I meant by "eh... whatever" was just that... whatever. The implication was somewhat toward what you were saying, hence the reason I BOLDED the "AND MONEY" part of my statement; truth-be-told, I'll never understand why people who HAD to put tens of thousands of dollars into their car to make it remotely competitive feel the need to talk over people who buy their car from the dealer, take it straight to the track, and can post an impressive time. Also- I agree that the Talon reference was a bit un-asked-for... I guess I was just being a little more diplomatic about calling it out!!
I remember the anecdote that back-in-the-day, when people would organize races at local tracks, the muscle-car crowd would pull in with their purpose-built cars on their trailers, the Euro-car crowd would trailer their modded cars into the raceway and then home again after, and the Porsche guys (predom. 911s) would drive their stock car from home to the track, beat the snot out of the field, then drive home.
THAT'S a sportscar, and THAT'S why I've owned Porsches for the better part of my driving life.
I guess in that vane, the answer to the question posted (to remain SLIGHTLY on-topic), is that ANY Porsche will give you the greatest driving experience of your life. I've driven a lot of fast-as-stink cars (even raced a Viper and an Esprit V8TT), but nothing has ever given me the Perma-Grin like a Porsche!!!
In fact, BUY ALL THREE ROB!!!
Dave
San Diego
04-11-2007, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Pzkw993
Great post by rj777.. The 993 will "fishtail" at 30mph in a right-angle turn, but at road course speeds it really needs more front tire.
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04-11-2007, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rj777
Hi Rome,
Here is the original request for help that was posted on the Boxster board the other day. In re-reading the original question from Rob W in this thread and comparing it to what was posted on ppbb, I really doubt that the following question is from Rob because Rob states in *this* thread that he previously owned some 993's. Anyway, here goes:
'Boxster S vs. 993 cab' -- I am seriously in the market for one of these.. my questions are, how would a 98' cab compare with a 2000 boxster S in terms of torque (and 5-60mph low end acceration), handling, maintenance costs, comfort for my 6'2 190lb frame, and safety? Other than its more pure-bred heritage (air cooled) what about driving this model 993 is so different than a 996? based on its weight and interior it almost seems to have a more 'go-kart' feel.. Am I correct? Generally what has been the safety record on boxsters? if it does roll over, whats the survivability with the roll bars? Does the fact that the roll bar size and seat height for the 2005 model year suggest there was a problem with the original design?
And here is my response:
Disclaimer 1: I am not a professional motorsports journalist, author, or reviewer. Disclaimer 2, both my cars are tiptronics, but IMO, this has absolutely *negligible* impact on acceleration and torque. By the way, the 986 S tip is a 5-speed and the 993 Tip is a 4-speed. In manual mode, the 993 tip offers both steering wheel shifting and console shifting, which is kind of cool because you get to connect with the console shifter to do the manual mode shifting.
The launch acceleration is about the same in both cars, although I might give a small nod to the 993 because the car seems a bit lighter than the Box S. The Box S, though, seems to have more low-end torque.
In manual mode, they are both extremely fast cars. Trust me. And they are just as stable, planted, and confidence-inspiring at 105 mph on the interstate as they are at 40-50 mph around town.
The 993 offers a raw, visceral, involving, and very connected to the road driving experience. It requires your full focus and attention while driving. 18" wheels are a must in order to get a wider, more grippier rear wheel. Othewise, sooner or later, you will experience fishtailing with the stock 17" wheels due to all that force, power, and thrust over the rear wheels. The 993 driving experience is totally satisfying in a way that the newer 986/996 can't exactly duplicate because, IMO, the 986/996 design, implementation, and end product took these cars to a totally different direction. Not better, not worse, just different.
The 00 Box S is a very capable car on every level. But first and foremost, it is civilized. It is insulated from the road. It is comfortable. It is more modern. It's interior is eye-catching, beautiful, symmetrical, striking, and visually balanced. It is fast, it is agile, it is stable, it is fun, it is beautiful to look at, and it is satisfying to drive. And with two trunks, it is practical for weekend getaways.
As far as maintenance, I've had very few issues with either car. I've owned my '0 Box S since new. I've had it for 7 years and have driven it 39,700 miles. The only unexpected things to come up were a need to replace the final drive seal (where the transmission connects to the rear axle, and where my mechanic noticed a small leak of differential fluid), and I needed new front strut tower bearings to address the creaking sound noticeable when pulling into a parking spot. Also, at the 30k mile service, when getting new spark plugs, my mechnanic said I needed a few new O-rings which the plugs fit into. I don't know if worn spark plug O-rings are routine or not, but it wasn't much money to replace them. Oh, and I'm noticing the coke-bottle whistle out of the ride side, which I'm told is a valve, cannister, or something related needing replacement in the evaporative emissions control system. It's only noticeable around 35 mph. Other than this, my '00 Box S has been bulletproof, bombproof, and as all-around trouble free a car that I've ever owned.
As far as maintenance on the 993 cab goes, mine's been relatively trouble free so far. I needed a new gasket on one of the lower valve covers. The symptom was a small leak of oil on the engine tray. I didn't notice it because the leak never even reached the garage floor. I'm told it isn't major, and it wasn't too much to fix. One of my cabrio top cables needed replacing, and the cab mechanism has required some adjustment. The motors in the front of the cab top that control the locking of the top to the windshield as the top is put up, were recalled (and replaced) by PCNA at no charge. In general the 993 cab mechanisms seem to require a bit more maintenance, and some owners have gone to a manual mode of lowering and raising them, a thankfully available option discussed in the owners manual. I will say, IMO, that the cab experience is thoroughly enjoyable in the 993 and well worth the extra work involved to keep it fully operational. That being said, most of the hardcore 993 owners seem to prefer the coupe, but depending on where you live, and your personal preferences, I wouldn't try to talk you out of the cab, because it is that awesomely satisfying a driving experience. Feel free to e-mail me if I can help further. I hope this is helpful. Regards, Rick
Here are some pics of my '00 Boxster S at the Blue Ridge Boxster Summit a few years ago:
Here is the original request for help that was posted on the Boxster board the other day. In re-reading the original question from Rob W in this thread and comparing it to what was posted on ppbb, I really doubt that the following question is from Rob because Rob states in *this* thread that he previously owned some 993's. Anyway, here goes:
'Boxster S vs. 993 cab' -- I am seriously in the market for one of these.. my questions are, how would a 98' cab compare with a 2000 boxster S in terms of torque (and 5-60mph low end acceration), handling, maintenance costs, comfort for my 6'2 190lb frame, and safety? Other than its more pure-bred heritage (air cooled) what about driving this model 993 is so different than a 996? based on its weight and interior it almost seems to have a more 'go-kart' feel.. Am I correct? Generally what has been the safety record on boxsters? if it does roll over, whats the survivability with the roll bars? Does the fact that the roll bar size and seat height for the 2005 model year suggest there was a problem with the original design?
And here is my response:
Disclaimer 1: I am not a professional motorsports journalist, author, or reviewer. Disclaimer 2, both my cars are tiptronics, but IMO, this has absolutely *negligible* impact on acceleration and torque. By the way, the 986 S tip is a 5-speed and the 993 Tip is a 4-speed. In manual mode, the 993 tip offers both steering wheel shifting and console shifting, which is kind of cool because you get to connect with the console shifter to do the manual mode shifting.
The launch acceleration is about the same in both cars, although I might give a small nod to the 993 because the car seems a bit lighter than the Box S. The Box S, though, seems to have more low-end torque.
In manual mode, they are both extremely fast cars. Trust me. And they are just as stable, planted, and confidence-inspiring at 105 mph on the interstate as they are at 40-50 mph around town.
The 993 offers a raw, visceral, involving, and very connected to the road driving experience. It requires your full focus and attention while driving. 18" wheels are a must in order to get a wider, more grippier rear wheel. Othewise, sooner or later, you will experience fishtailing with the stock 17" wheels due to all that force, power, and thrust over the rear wheels. The 993 driving experience is totally satisfying in a way that the newer 986/996 can't exactly duplicate because, IMO, the 986/996 design, implementation, and end product took these cars to a totally different direction. Not better, not worse, just different.
The 00 Box S is a very capable car on every level. But first and foremost, it is civilized. It is insulated from the road. It is comfortable. It is more modern. It's interior is eye-catching, beautiful, symmetrical, striking, and visually balanced. It is fast, it is agile, it is stable, it is fun, it is beautiful to look at, and it is satisfying to drive. And with two trunks, it is practical for weekend getaways.
As far as maintenance, I've had very few issues with either car. I've owned my '0 Box S since new. I've had it for 7 years and have driven it 39,700 miles. The only unexpected things to come up were a need to replace the final drive seal (where the transmission connects to the rear axle, and where my mechanic noticed a small leak of differential fluid), and I needed new front strut tower bearings to address the creaking sound noticeable when pulling into a parking spot. Also, at the 30k mile service, when getting new spark plugs, my mechnanic said I needed a few new O-rings which the plugs fit into. I don't know if worn spark plug O-rings are routine or not, but it wasn't much money to replace them. Oh, and I'm noticing the coke-bottle whistle out of the ride side, which I'm told is a valve, cannister, or something related needing replacement in the evaporative emissions control system. It's only noticeable around 35 mph. Other than this, my '00 Box S has been bulletproof, bombproof, and as all-around trouble free a car that I've ever owned.
As far as maintenance on the 993 cab goes, mine's been relatively trouble free so far. I needed a new gasket on one of the lower valve covers. The symptom was a small leak of oil on the engine tray. I didn't notice it because the leak never even reached the garage floor. I'm told it isn't major, and it wasn't too much to fix. One of my cabrio top cables needed replacing, and the cab mechanism has required some adjustment. The motors in the front of the cab top that control the locking of the top to the windshield as the top is put up, were recalled (and replaced) by PCNA at no charge. In general the 993 cab mechanisms seem to require a bit more maintenance, and some owners have gone to a manual mode of lowering and raising them, a thankfully available option discussed in the owners manual. I will say, IMO, that the cab experience is thoroughly enjoyable in the 993 and well worth the extra work involved to keep it fully operational. That being said, most of the hardcore 993 owners seem to prefer the coupe, but depending on where you live, and your personal preferences, I wouldn't try to talk you out of the cab, because it is that awesomely satisfying a driving experience. Feel free to e-mail me if I can help further. I hope this is helpful. Regards, Rick
Here are some pics of my '00 Boxster S at the Blue Ridge Boxster Summit a few years ago:
Rick-- Thanks. great write up and great pics.
04-11-2007, 10:06 AM
#19
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Vampyre, relax. I only drew the comparison to a Z06 and Viper to make a comparison as to how fast an 11 second car is. Both of those cars are low 12 or high 11 second cars. The new viper is really fast and I have yet to see one at the track. Yes when modified both of them can go really fast. Nobody is talking about that. The best my talon has done is 11.7 @ 119mph. A modified viper can beat that quite easily nobody is claiming otherwise. I'm drawing comparison so people know how fast 11.7 is with a car that they have heard of. Most people don't know what an 11 second car feels like but can imagine how fast a viper is.
You're getting totally bent out of shape over nothing. My talon is fast, but uncomfortable, vibrates and runs hot because of the huge turbo on it. I only drew that comparison to so it's easy for people to draw a mental comparison between my talon a fast car and my Boxster which is not fast. Then for me to say that I enjoy the Boxster afterwards is only to show that it's not about the speed. The Boxster is great because of his design handling and overall layout. My Talon is much faster than my Boxster is however I still enjoy driving the Boxster more. I have street bikes as well, 600rr and still enjoy the Boxster more.
If you want more proof or want to carry this conversation on more, please PM me. I have full build up pics of the engine and tranny and videos at the track. My engine and tranny build up was featured in a magazine in 2005 across a 6 page spread. I will be happy to email that to you. But enough of your "calling me out"...
You're getting totally bent out of shape over nothing. My talon is fast, but uncomfortable, vibrates and runs hot because of the huge turbo on it. I only drew that comparison to so it's easy for people to draw a mental comparison between my talon a fast car and my Boxster which is not fast. Then for me to say that I enjoy the Boxster afterwards is only to show that it's not about the speed. The Boxster is great because of his design handling and overall layout. My Talon is much faster than my Boxster is however I still enjoy driving the Boxster more. I have street bikes as well, 600rr and still enjoy the Boxster more.
If you want more proof or want to carry this conversation on more, please PM me. I have full build up pics of the engine and tranny and videos at the track. My engine and tranny build up was featured in a magazine in 2005 across a 6 page spread. I will be happy to email that to you. But enough of your "calling me out"...
Last edited by 986Jim; 04-11-2007 at 10:45 AM.
04-11-2007, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by rome
Is there less "fishtailing" with the C4S??
04-11-2007, 10:53 AM
#21
I'm in a similar process, I have a 1997 Boxster and I am looking at trading it in next spring, I am having a hard time deciding what to get next, or if I should just keep the car and do some more mods.
I am intrested in these cars.
1998~2001 - 996 (911)
2002~2005 - 986S Boxster S
2005~2006 - Lotus Elise
2005~2006 - Lotus Exige
It is great to see some posts on the Boxster S... keep them coming!
RJ777 - great post and pictures.
I am intrested in these cars.
1998~2001 - 996 (911)
2002~2005 - 986S Boxster S
2005~2006 - Lotus Elise
2005~2006 - Lotus Exige
It is great to see some posts on the Boxster S... keep them coming!
RJ777 - great post and pictures.
Last edited by Vampyre; 04-16-2007 at 10:48 AM.
04-11-2007, 11:06 AM
#22
986Jim - No need to go further; your last post was fine and I understand what you are trying to convey with the speed comparison. Your first post just didn't come off that way.
Now about the "Corvette Leaf Springs = Pre school"... I'm not gonna go off, but you might want to be well read before you start posting that stuff.
Your comment about the leaf springs on the Corvette is foolish. It is obvious you are not up on Composite materials designs, or the way they are used in Corvettes.
Corvette Leaf Springs INFO:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_springs
That is some decent info, if you want more, visit the Vette forums.
Now about the "Corvette Leaf Springs = Pre school"... I'm not gonna go off, but you might want to be well read before you start posting that stuff.
Your comment about the leaf springs on the Corvette is foolish. It is obvious you are not up on Composite materials designs, or the way they are used in Corvettes.
Corvette Leaf Springs INFO:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_springs
That is some decent info, if you want more, visit the Vette forums.
Last edited by Vampyre; 04-11-2007 at 09:59 PM.
04-16-2007, 12:10 PM
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I have a 73 911 and a 00 Boxster S. I've had the 73 for 19 years now. Before buying the Boxster, I was also thinking of a 993. I drove a bunch of each. It was hands down the Boxster S for me. Why? The 993 is a great great car. It has all the right 911 sounds and feel. It is a very true continuation of my 73. But, that was just it. They did such a great job recapturing the feel of the ealier cars (which I believe they had lost in the interim cars), that my 73 still met my needs for that feel. On the other hand, the Boxster S was or is a "modern" Porsche. While it is smoother, and more like other modern cars, it does so with pure Porsche blood. There is no mistaking it for anything other than a Porsche. So, I got the best of both worlds by having my Boxster and my 911.
A couple of caveats. I don't know what I'd do if I could only have one of a 993 or a Boxster S. It might just be the Boxster S. If I could only have one between my 73 and either a 993 or a Boxster S, it would be the 73 911. My commute allows me to still use it as my daily driver. Lastly, the plain Boxster is a nice car but I would never buy it over the 993 or other car. I'm not talking about the difference in horsepower. I'm talking about the difference in driving feel to me. To me the different suspension, the different exhaust sound, and the different tranny on the S feel all added up to a sports car, while the non-S felt too much like any other car on the road these days. No doubt the non-S is a great car and a good driver in a non-S can beat me. But, for minute by minute driving, my driving, the S made it for me, the non-S did not.
Oh, one final thing, I got the full leather interior on my Boxster. Yeah, sure heavier and thus slower. But, it took away any feeling of cheapness inside and in fact made it a very classic, not plastic feel.
Just my personal issues! You gotta decide on yours.
A couple of caveats. I don't know what I'd do if I could only have one of a 993 or a Boxster S. It might just be the Boxster S. If I could only have one between my 73 and either a 993 or a Boxster S, it would be the 73 911. My commute allows me to still use it as my daily driver. Lastly, the plain Boxster is a nice car but I would never buy it over the 993 or other car. I'm not talking about the difference in horsepower. I'm talking about the difference in driving feel to me. To me the different suspension, the different exhaust sound, and the different tranny on the S feel all added up to a sports car, while the non-S felt too much like any other car on the road these days. No doubt the non-S is a great car and a good driver in a non-S can beat me. But, for minute by minute driving, my driving, the S made it for me, the non-S did not.
Oh, one final thing, I got the full leather interior on my Boxster. Yeah, sure heavier and thus slower. But, it took away any feeling of cheapness inside and in fact made it a very classic, not plastic feel.
Just my personal issues! You gotta decide on yours.
04-16-2007, 02:25 PM
#26
Originally Posted by Rob W
HI I am selling my sudi s4 it has a couple of modifications twin k04 turbos with apr down pipes an apr chip and the apr injectors actually it has the apr stage 3 kit. I just want to get a convertible that is a little more fun. I really don't use the audi much I own a materials production company and tend to use my dodge 2500 td pu most of the time. I have owned a couple of 993 cars in the past and a 3.2 1988 targa how does the boxster s compare to these two cars. I know that none of these cars is nearly as quick as the s4 my brother has a fearrai 360 that has a hard time keeping up with the s4 in a straight line. Anyhow I have noticed that 2001 boxster s cars seem to have a pretty reasonable price are they fairly reliable. Hey any help would be appreciated
Rob
Rob
Have owned my BoxsterS for 37K miles. Repairs to date
new throttle body $350
parking brake switch $4
remote alarm reporgramming $90
pretty good huh?
I hear the 2000-0002 Boxsters built in Finland have been some of the most reliable Porsche built, ever.
As far as 'quick'. On track/autox the BoxsterS is plenty quick, there is no shortage. I've matched or beaten standard Carreras in the past.
talking to people about the Boxster is funny sometimes. SOme guys lump all cars together GT's, Sports Coupes, roadsters, convertibles, muscle/drag racing cars, exotics, etc.
if you are considering a BoxsterS you should understand that you are buying the roadster of the Porsche brand. It's the benchmark for cars in this category when price is not a consideration. I personally think the S2000 is the best value in sports cars in general but its missing some things that come at hefty premium thru Porsche. The S2000, BoxsterS, Z4 none of these cars was made with enourmous power because that's contrary to the roadster concept. Smaller, shorter, lighter, lower, less practical, more nimble thus requiring less power to go fast.
Could they put in 400HP? sure. but then it wouldn't be roadster anymore.
The engine would be doing most of the work for you.
Think about it this way, some people say the base 2.7 Boxster is "not enough power" really? a famous 911, the 73 RS took overall class honors at LeMans. It had barely 220 HP out of a 2.7, nearly identical to what's in a base 986 Boxster nowadays.
04-17-2007, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by perfectlap
Think about it this way, some people say the base 2.7 Boxster is "not enough power" really? a famous 911, the 73 RS took overall class honors at LeMans. It had barely 220 HP out of a 2.7, nearly identical to what's in a base 986 Boxster nowadays.
04-17-2007, 11:33 AM
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I saw that you mentioned the Elise. If you are looking for a pure track car that has everything you need to kill apexes and supply uber accleration - it will not disappoint. I almost got one instead of the 911.
04-17-2007, 11:31 PM
#30
Instructor
Originally Posted by JohnVitamvas
Wow. Just .. wow. Talk about a lack of understanding...
Everybody on the internet is a friggin expert. Seriously I give up.
