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18" five spoke lightweight wheels

 
Old 01-30-2007, 10:18 PM
  #31  
samluke
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Its interesting that some of the most expensive wheels can also be very heavy. Again if you compare 10" wheels:

The Speedline wheels weigh in at around 29lbs, as do the Porsche BBS Design and Sport classics

RUF wheels fetch a big premium but they weigh in at a heavy 27lbs, and I have seen one break, so they are not necessarily that strong.

Its very interesting the range of weights for the same size wheel.

Some of the lightest wheels out there are actually the original Porsche Fuchs, they are featherlight. Unfortunately the diameters and the offsets were never available for our cars.

Right now I run 993 hollow spokes 8's and 10's, and Carrera lightweight rear 10s, and I have a pair of CCW fronts. I am trying to convert over to Carrera lightweights, and am trying to get 3 sets together. I have lots of rears but no fronts.

So if anyone has any leads on singles or pairs 18X8, let me know. Condition not important as long as they are round and true.
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Old 01-31-2007, 12:29 PM
  #32  
Jay Laifman
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I'm going to express something that in the past when others have expressed it I scoffed at it. So, if you tend to scoff at it, fine, but you may change your tune one day. In fact, it's kind of like I'm one of those bad ex-smokers.

There are comments above about "they are close enough" or "the difference is not worth the expense." This logic DOES NOT WORK for Porsches. I can assure you, that if Porsche designed the engines, the suspensions, the brakes in a way that were "close enough" or chose the cheaper alternatives, we would not be buying these cars! If you wanted "close enough" or lower cost at the expense of performance, then you would have bought a Nissan Z or a Mazda RX8 or a Pontiac Solstice. But, you didn't. You bought a Porsche, because it is a Porsche, where "Excellence was Expected."

Now, don't get me wrong, it's your car and you can choose to spend whatever you want on it. You can get Kuhmo tires and it will be just fine, and you will barely notice the difference. But, there is a difference, and you know it. So, if the difference is not important to you, why'd you buy the Porsche to begin with?

Like I said, I used to have the opposite view, and I respect you for yours if yours is the opposite. But, I think the question is still valid. Once you start down that slope of getting wheels that are "good enough" and tires that last longer and grip less because they make more sense for your daily driving, before you know it, you will be driving the "perfect" car for street driving. And we all know that is a Honda Accord, not any Porsche.

Last edited by Jay Laifman; 01-31-2007 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 02-10-2007, 04:53 PM
  #33  
AllanJ
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Originally Posted by samluke
Here's the facts on weight. I have done a lot of research on wheels over the years figuring out the best weight/cost wheel combination. All these weights are for an 18X10 wheel, using the same scales. Wheels vary in weight, and scales may weigh differently but the comparison is accurate. I also just verified an OEM 5 spoke against a replica.

Here's the list from lightest to heaviest.

CCW 20lb
BBS forged one piece 21lb
Porsche/BBS Carrera lightweight 5 spoke 22.6lb
Porsche 993 Turbo twist hollow spoke 24.5lb
Italian replica 5 spoke 26.8lb
Porsche/BBS design/turbo twist solid spoke 29lb
Italian replica Turbo twist 32.7lb

So as you can see the relica wheel is 4lb over an OEM wheel (for an 18X10), but its still a relatively light wheel. Again for street it really doesn't matter. The wheel with the best bang for the buck (in my opinion) if your looking at weight is the BBS forged 1 piece.
Quick question for you: Why did you choose the BBS as "best bang for the buck" over CCW? Isn't CCW cheaper than those BBS wheels?

I'm in the middle of doing a bunch of research for some track wheels for my GT3 and came across this thread.

Thanks,
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Old 02-10-2007, 06:32 PM
  #34  
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Its a question of preference. I have a pair of CCW racing front wheels and they are great, and very light, and very reasonably priced.

In my opinion a single piece forged wheel is stronger than a multipiece wheel for the same weight. It adds quite a bit of weight to a wheel to make it multipiece, as you have to design in the flanges, and the fastening system. CCW spin the rim halves to get the weight down and still stay strong.

The other problems is there is a risk of leakage. I just spent today rebuilding one of my CCW's as it was leaking at the rim halves joint.

Another problem is the number of fasteners, some like the look, but it makes them difficult to clean, plus the fasteners rust over time.

One last problem with CCW's is that there are no center caps. It really doesn't matter for a track car. I have seen some people either chrome or polish the bearing dust cap but even then it doesn't look the best (in my opinion). Maybe they have done something different on the newer CCW wheels?

Again CCW are great wheels and very affordable, but my personal preference is the BBS wheel.

For GT3 I don't think you can't beat the 996 hollow spokes, in terms of value for money, light, strong and easy to clean. I think the offset is a little different for GT3 compared to 911TT, but I think they still work.
996 TT wheels are 18X8 ET 50 fronts @21.6lb, rears are 18X11 ET45 @26.4lb. For some reason they are slightly heavier than 993 hollows.

I have a set of 993TT wheels and 996TT wheels, all hollow if you need any.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:58 AM
  #35  
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Thanks a lot for the info, samluke. The 1-piece CCW C14 (Corsair) is now on top of my list. Strong. Lightweight. More expensive than the Classics, but I prefer the look of the C14 over the Classics. Thanks for the offer of the wheels, but I'm going to go bigger on the front with 9" rims.

Cheers,
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Old 02-12-2007, 11:00 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by designman
Sounds like a reasonable assumption, but how do you know? I know you can pay a lot less for a RL Polo shirt in TJ Maxx than in Lord &Taylor and they are the same except for ocassional benign flaws which are undetectable to most (you can also get flaws in a shirt bought in Lord & Taylor), so there is definitely such a thing as overpaying. But there are also phonies. I can see wheels coming from the same hands that are priced extremely different but I can also see knockoffs that are completely different and inferior. How can we know for sure with wheels? Just asking.
Easy, buy your wheel from a reputable manufacturer of forged wheels. Forged wheels are typically lighter and stronger than cast. However, they are expensive to make, so any cheap knock-off will be easily distinguished from the real deal.
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:24 PM
  #37  
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Just to FYI, I've just ordered a set of the 18" five spoke wheels off eBay. I didn't go with Wheel Dynamics, but a competitor (same Italian replicas). They're new with center caps for $800. I'm getting the wheels this month and next month I'll get tires for them. I'm sure the snow will have melted by then. (I hope!)

I was originally going to go with 17s as the 18s I had before were a little rough riding, but I really like the look of these (..and they'll be easy to clean, which was another problem with my old wheels). My car will look like a darker version of blinkwatt's.
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Old 02-24-2007, 12:18 PM
  #38  
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Ta Da! Came yesterday. Overall they look pretty nice. I'll post a new thread once I they're mounted, etc.
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:16 AM
  #39  
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Let us know what tire sizes you end up using. I've been considering these wheels for a couple years now - love the look but the thought of a 265/35 rear stretched over a 10" wheel doesn't appeal to me. If only the replica's were available in a 9 or 9.5" width...

SAMLUKE - are all of the wheel weights you quoted for the same size / offset? I'd expect the 18x10et47 LW 5-spoke to be heavier than the 18x10et65 due to the extra 'pad' thickness in the hub area (maybe a pound or two of material?).. Since the et47 was never offered as a factory wheel, it stands to reason that the replica has to be heavier if you're comparing against the et65 factory wheel. Do you have weights for 18x8et50 fronts?

Thanks-
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:25 PM
  #40  
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I have to do some research myself on the best tire size for these wheels. One eBay ad mentioned one, but I don't remember what it was. If anybody has any suggestions...
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Old 03-03-2007, 04:41 PM
  #41  
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One eBay ad says 225/40/ZR18 and 265/35/ZR18, while another says 235/40ZR18 Front 265/40ZR18 Rear? Hmm...

Edit: Still one more ad says "Wheels are 8x18" with 225-40ZR18 front and 10x18" with 285-30ZR18 rear."
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:45 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Jay Laifman
I'm going to express something that in the past when others have expressed it I scoffed at it. So, if you tend to scoff at it, fine, but you may change your tune one day. In fact, it's kind of like I'm one of those bad ex-smokers..
Jay,

I have to agree with you here. I've spent the winter looking at wheelsets for my 986S, as I needed three extra sets (one for open track/Pro Solo with Hoosier R, one for autocross with Hoosier A, and one for wet autocross with F1 GS-D3) and they all had to be 7.5/9.0 ET 50/52 to be SCCA-legal. I've looked at all the replicas (or at least many of them) and I've explored literally dozens of options.

I'd be extremely nervous about running replica wheels. We've already established that the Porsche ones aren't always perfect, so how much worse are the $250 copies likely to be? Do you really want to find yourself running at 130+ on the track (or, worse yet, on the street) and trusting your life to replica wheels, even if they are supposedly from "the same factory"?

I think the problem is that most people think there are three alternatives when it comes to new wheels:

1. Call Wheel Enhancement and pay their asking price, which is usually at least $650 per wheel for 18" Boxster fitments. I personally would go broke if I had to deal with Wheel Enhancement. Don't even get me started on how much they wanted to polish my Fuchs.

2. Buy the cheapie eBay wheels for $250 each;

3. Buy wheels from a private seller, pay the inflated prices you see in Panorama or on Rennlist, wait forever for the guy to get around to shipping 'em, and then find out that the "perfect" wheels you just bought for $500 each were driven down a curb at 40mph. Is there anybody in the country but me who doesn't immediately curb his wheels?

Luckily there are some alternatives. Ernie's Alloys can usually supply 18" Boxster wheels in good shape for $400 each or thereabouts, depending on style. I've found a couple of dealers who were willing to sell wheelsets well below Wheel Enhancement prices, particularly on old stock. Last but not least, you can play hardball with private sellers. Asking for detailed pictures is usually enough to knock $100 each off those "perfect" wheels!

Regarding Kumho tires, however, I want to suggest that Kumho is no longer really an "off brand". I've used Kumho MX tires in a variety of situations and I was far more pleased with them than I have been with some Porsche "N" rated tires. Frankly, the only reason I use Hoosier tires for competition is my desire to do business with American manufacturers as often as possible. But I would suggest that using the Kumho MX or perhaps even the 712 Supra is not equivalent to using replica wheels.
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Old 03-05-2007, 07:58 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Pzkw993
Jay,

I have to agree with you here. I've spent the winter looking at wheelsets for my 986S, as I needed three extra sets (one for open track/Pro Solo with Hoosier R, one for autocross with Hoosier A, and one for wet autocross with F1 GS-D3) and they all had to be 7.5/9.0 ET 50/52 to be SCCA-legal. I've looked at all the replicas (or at least many of them) and I've explored literally dozens of options.

I'd be extremely nervous about running replica wheels. We've already established that the Porsche ones aren't always perfect, so how much worse are the $250 copies likely to be? Do you really want to find yourself running at 130+ on the track (or, worse yet, on the street) and trusting your life to replica wheels, even if they are supposedly from "the same factory"?

I think the problem is that most people think there are three alternatives when it comes to new wheels:

1. Call Wheel Enhancement and pay their asking price, which is usually at least $650 per wheel for 18" Boxster fitments. I personally would go broke if I had to deal with Wheel Enhancement. Don't even get me started on how much they wanted to polish my Fuchs.

2. Buy the cheapie eBay wheels for $250 each;

3. Buy wheels from a private seller, pay the inflated prices you see in Panorama or on Rennlist, wait forever for the guy to get around to shipping 'em, and then find out that the "perfect" wheels you just bought for $500 each were driven down a curb at 40mph. Is there anybody in the country but me who doesn't immediately curb his wheels?

Luckily there are some alternatives. Ernie's Alloys can usually supply 18" Boxster wheels in good shape for $400 each or thereabouts, depending on style. I've found a couple of dealers who were willing to sell wheelsets well below Wheel Enhancement prices, particularly on old stock. Last but not least, you can play hardball with private sellers. Asking for detailed pictures is usually enough to knock $100 each off those "perfect" wheels!

Regarding Kumho tires, however, I want to suggest that Kumho is no longer really an "off brand". I've used Kumho MX tires in a variety of situations and I was far more pleased with them than I have been with some Porsche "N" rated tires. Frankly, the only reason I use Hoosier tires for competition is my desire to do business with American manufacturers as often as possible. But I would suggest that using the Kumho MX or perhaps even the 712 Supra is not equivalent to using replica wheels.
So cheap, non Porsche N rated tires are ok at 130+ on the track, but replica wheels aren't...

anyone else have a problem with that concept?
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:16 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by cdodkin
So cheap, non Porsche N rated tires are ok at 130+ on the track, but replica wheels aren't...

anyone else have a problem with that concept?
Just out of curiosity, what makes you feel that the Kumho is a "cheap" tire? It appears to be of construction, durability, and performance which is roughly equivalent to the PS2, F1 GS-D3, or SportMaxx - and it clearly outperforms N rated tires like the SportContact 2.

As far as I can determine, the reason replica wheels are cheaper is because they are not engineered and tested like Porsche OEM wheels. There's no evidence that replica wheels have undergone any testing whatsoever, except for the promise of TUV certification one sees on eBay.

The reason the Kumho MX is cheaper than the European tires appears to be labor rates in the country of origin. Furthermore, the Ecsta V710 appears to be more or less an exact halfway point between the Hoosier A6 and R6, and even costs about the same And plenty of people have run those tires in competition with no trouble.

I'd put the Kumho tires in the same category as, say, CCW wheels. They are an alternative to OEM, rather than a discount alternative. But that's only my opinion!
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Old 03-05-2007, 08:20 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Pzkw993
Just out of curiosity, what makes you feel that the Kumho is a "cheap" tire? It appears to be of construction, durability, and performance which is roughly equivalent to the PS2, F1 GS-D3, or SportMaxx - and it clearly outperforms N rated tires like the SportContact 2.

As far as I can determine, the reason replica wheels are cheaper is because they are not engineered and tested like Porsche OEM wheels. There's no evidence that replica wheels have undergone any testing whatsoever, except for the promise of TUV certification one sees on eBay.

The reason the Kumho MX is cheaper than the European tires appears to be labor rates in the country of origin. Furthermore, the Ecsta V710 appears to be more or less an exact halfway point between the Hoosier A6 and R6, and even costs about the same And plenty of people have run those tires in competition with no trouble.

I'd put the Kumho tires in the same category as, say, CCW wheels. They are an alternative to OEM, rather than a discount alternative. But that's only my opinion!
Well - they are cheap as in low $$$

And then there's the time the rear tire blew out on my wife's Boxster...



I don't use Kumho any more - not when someone's life could be at stake
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