*my two-cents*
08-18-2006, 02:22 AM
#1
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*my two-cents*
I've been on and off of this forum for some time, and I apprecaite all of the help I've received here, but I've decided to move on from Porsche.
Here's my two-cents about what I've been through with the car, along with a little venting that might potentially wake up a potential Boxster buyer.
So I dont know if porsche decided to hire a bunch of retards to assemble earlier boxsters, or if they went to a Taiwanese back-alley to purchase the parts, but here's a list of things that have happened to mine in the past two years. (I have a 99). here's also where most of my paychecks have gone..
1. blown engine ($12,000)
2. all brake rotors went bad. twice. ($2400)
3. mass 02 sensor went bad ($500)
4. window motors went out ($400)
5. air conditioning belt broke ($200)
6. plastic brackets behind seat backing broke ($200)
7. rear window replacement ($500)
8. door locks stopped working ($400)
9. tires every 6 months ($600)
10. air conditioning vents fell apart ($150)
This is all I can think of right now. When Porsche gave me the finger after asking for a little help with a known faulty engine problem, I've decided to never buy a Porsche again.
The newer porsches seem to be pretty smooth, so I'm thinking they've fired the retards that assembled the boxsters in 98-99. To make a long story short, I will be trading my boxster in soon and moving on to a car company that stands behind their product.
Here's my two-cents about what I've been through with the car, along with a little venting that might potentially wake up a potential Boxster buyer.
So I dont know if porsche decided to hire a bunch of retards to assemble earlier boxsters, or if they went to a Taiwanese back-alley to purchase the parts, but here's a list of things that have happened to mine in the past two years. (I have a 99). here's also where most of my paychecks have gone..
1. blown engine ($12,000)
2. all brake rotors went bad. twice. ($2400)
3. mass 02 sensor went bad ($500)
4. window motors went out ($400)
5. air conditioning belt broke ($200)
6. plastic brackets behind seat backing broke ($200)
7. rear window replacement ($500)
8. door locks stopped working ($400)
9. tires every 6 months ($600)
10. air conditioning vents fell apart ($150)
This is all I can think of right now. When Porsche gave me the finger after asking for a little help with a known faulty engine problem, I've decided to never buy a Porsche again.
The newer porsches seem to be pretty smooth, so I'm thinking they've fired the retards that assembled the boxsters in 98-99. To make a long story short, I will be trading my boxster in soon and moving on to a car company that stands behind their product.
08-18-2006, 03:57 AM
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Sorry to hear of your misfortune. That doesn't sound very good.
Just curious... why did your rotors fail twice?
And how many miles did you get on one set of tires? Do you drive 40,000 miles per year??
Just curious... why did your rotors fail twice?
And how many miles did you get on one set of tires? Do you drive 40,000 miles per year??
08-18-2006, 11:00 AM
#3
Racer
You obviously purschased the car used. It sounds like it was badly abused to me (either by the PO, you, or both), as evidenced by rotors and tire replacements. That's my $.02.
Regardless, it's probably a good idea that you find something else if you're not happy. Better luck with whatever it is you find.
Regardless, it's probably a good idea that you find something else if you're not happy. Better luck with whatever it is you find.
Last edited by J-RAD; 08-19-2006 at 03:39 AM.
08-18-2006, 11:06 AM
#4
The car sounds badly abused
That's the problem with Porsches, you never know what you are going to get when you buy a used one. Some owners push their cars to the limits on a regular basis and then sell them to some unsuspecting buyer who has to live with the maintenance consequencies of such abuse.
That's the problem with Porsches, you never know what you are going to get when you buy a used one. Some owners push their cars to the limits on a regular basis and then sell them to some unsuspecting buyer who has to live with the maintenance consequencies of such abuse.
08-18-2006, 11:21 AM
#5
rotors dont fail unless they are abused
12k for an engine sounds high
ac belt breaking was it replaced at the factory inveral
brackets behind the seat ??????
tires goind bad is usually the driver or the mfg of the tire or an aligmnment issue not porsche fault
12k for an engine sounds high
ac belt breaking was it replaced at the factory inveral
brackets behind the seat ??????
tires goind bad is usually the driver or the mfg of the tire or an aligmnment issue not porsche fault
08-18-2006, 11:54 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Buy a pcar that was built before the "Lease Revolution". Porsche knew how to make cars and now they know how to make money. The two seem to be mutually exclusive.
Their new strategy is build them to last for a few years.
Lease'em, sell'em and try to get the customer back into a newer model before it fails.
Cars off lease or traded in are gone over with a fine tooth comb to see if there is anything left in them(will they last a few more years?). Those that will are certified and resold those that aren't are sent to auction.
The real bucks are made when the car falls apart when it's 5yrs old and requires mega $$$ for parts/labor to fix. IMO Porsche has got this time perfectly hence they must have some incredible engineers.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with it. Porsche markets and caters to a group of individuals who want the prestige of owning a Porsche. These are customers who normally would switch cars within 3yrs so they will remain satisfied and will dismiss the poor quality claims as rubbish. Porsche keeps it's core customers(those that buy new or cpo) and they really don't care about the sales of cars outside their network as they don't make money off of those sales.
People who can't afford to buy/lease a new porsche every three years must be able to afford maintenance of one that is 4 or 5 yrs old and is rife with failures. Either way, Porsche is going to make money off of you. There is no way to own a 1997+ watercooled Porsche without spending some good bucks for it.
Options? Like I said, buy a Porsche from an earlier era, before the company knew how to make money.
Their new strategy is build them to last for a few years.
Lease'em, sell'em and try to get the customer back into a newer model before it fails.
Cars off lease or traded in are gone over with a fine tooth comb to see if there is anything left in them(will they last a few more years?). Those that will are certified and resold those that aren't are sent to auction.
The real bucks are made when the car falls apart when it's 5yrs old and requires mega $$$ for parts/labor to fix. IMO Porsche has got this time perfectly hence they must have some incredible engineers.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with it. Porsche markets and caters to a group of individuals who want the prestige of owning a Porsche. These are customers who normally would switch cars within 3yrs so they will remain satisfied and will dismiss the poor quality claims as rubbish. Porsche keeps it's core customers(those that buy new or cpo) and they really don't care about the sales of cars outside their network as they don't make money off of those sales.
People who can't afford to buy/lease a new porsche every three years must be able to afford maintenance of one that is 4 or 5 yrs old and is rife with failures. Either way, Porsche is going to make money off of you. There is no way to own a 1997+ watercooled Porsche without spending some good bucks for it.
Options? Like I said, buy a Porsche from an earlier era, before the company knew how to make money.
08-18-2006, 12:03 PM
#7
Racer
Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
Buy a pcar that was built before the "Lease Revolution". Porsche knew how to make cars and now they know how to make money. The two seem to be mutually exclusive.
Their new strategy is build them to last for a few years.
Lease'em, sell'em and try to get the customer back into a newer model before it fails.
Cars off lease or traded in are gone over with a fine tooth comb to see if there is anything left in them(will they last a few more years?). Those that will are certified and resold those that aren't are sent to auction.
The real bucks are made when the car falls apart when it's 5yrs old and requires mega $$$ for parts/labor to fix. IMO Porsche has got this time perfectly hence they must have some incredible engineers.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with it. Porsche markets and caters to a group of individuals who want the prestige of owning a Porsche. These are customers who normally would switch cars within 3yrs so they will remain satisfied and will dismiss the poor quality claims as rubbish. Porsche keeps it's core customers(those that buy new or cpo) and they really don't care about the sales of cars outside their network as they don't make money off of those sales.
People who can't afford to buy/lease a new porsche every three years must be able to afford maintenance of one that is 4 or 5 yrs old and is rife with failures. Either way, Porsche is going to make money off of you. There is no way to own a 1997+ watercooled Porsche without spending some good bucks for it.
Options? Like I said, buy a Porsche from an earlier era, before the company knew how to make money.
Their new strategy is build them to last for a few years.
Lease'em, sell'em and try to get the customer back into a newer model before it fails.
Cars off lease or traded in are gone over with a fine tooth comb to see if there is anything left in them(will they last a few more years?). Those that will are certified and resold those that aren't are sent to auction.
The real bucks are made when the car falls apart when it's 5yrs old and requires mega $$$ for parts/labor to fix. IMO Porsche has got this time perfectly hence they must have some incredible engineers.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with it. Porsche markets and caters to a group of individuals who want the prestige of owning a Porsche. These are customers who normally would switch cars within 3yrs so they will remain satisfied and will dismiss the poor quality claims as rubbish. Porsche keeps it's core customers(those that buy new or cpo) and they really don't care about the sales of cars outside their network as they don't make money off of those sales.
People who can't afford to buy/lease a new porsche every three years must be able to afford maintenance of one that is 4 or 5 yrs old and is rife with failures. Either way, Porsche is going to make money off of you. There is no way to own a 1997+ watercooled Porsche without spending some good bucks for it.
Options? Like I said, buy a Porsche from an earlier era, before the company knew how to make money.
More over, none of that has anything to do with the case in point here - the car was very obviously abused badly. It also reiterates the importance of a PPI for anyone buying a car like this.
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08-18-2006, 12:42 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by J-RAD
Wow! I disagree with just about everything said there (probably the only thing I agree with is the comment about Porsche's target market). Porsche's have consistently proven to be durable over time - the new cars are no exception.
More over, none of that has anything to do with the case in point here - the car was very obviously abused badly. It also reiterates the importance of a PPI for anyone buying a car like this.
More over, none of that has anything to do with the case in point here - the car was very obviously abused badly. It also reiterates the importance of a PPI for anyone buying a car like this.
Everyone knows that Porsche approached the Japanese to help them sell cars. Do people really think the Japanese only helped them with marketing strategy and not other important things such as returns on investment through expected product lifespan and repair costs. Some could even say that flaws in certain blocks may have been "Introduced" through an overzealous desire to compromise long term reliability. Consider that the Turbos and gt3s are more likely to remain with the original owners and you can understand the lack of issues with these cars.
Many people tout the genious of Porsche to create such fine High performance cars yet think them stupid enough not to capitalize on their reputation to make mega$$$ at the expense of an third party car buyer.
I've owned Pcars since the early 80s and every pre 986/996 car that I've owned has gone nearly 200,000 miles without issue. early engine failure on these older cars was unheard of and Porsche stood behind the cars because they knew they were building them to last.
I've been active in the 928 community for many years and have never heard of an engine failure under 100,000 mi that was not caused by gross negligence.
Now, when they are selling more than they ever had and are making record profits, they won't stand behind a product that was not designed to last forever. It's a sign of the times, not just a Porsche phenomenon. We live in a disposable society. TVs, toasters, computers, people, etc. Pay a premium and when it breaks pay another premium to fix it, if you deem it worthwhile. Optimally, you get rid of it before it breaks, lose very little $$$ on the transaction and buy new again.
I have a tv that's 28yrs old and works perfectly. I've gone through about 6 late model panasonics in the last 15yrs because the cost to fix wasn't worth the cost of the set. I also have 4 pcars that run perfectly yet if I had to place a bet on which one will give up the ghost first, I'd place my money on the newest with that has 1/3 the mileage than the rest. My wife drives this car and every morning, on the way out to my S4, I give a cautious glance at the Boxster and think to myself, "I've got my eye on you".
08-18-2006, 01:02 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
My wife drives this car and every morning, on the way out to my S4, I give a cautious glance at the Boxster and think to myself, "I've got my eye on you".
There are a lot of unsubstantiated and speculative claims in your post. Let's just say, we'll agree to disagree.
Note: the Boxster S is the third Porsche I've owned over the last 10 - 15 years (944T and 911) and it is by far the best one that I've owned, although the 911 was pretty bulletproof too.
08-18-2006, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by J-RAD
Wow! I disagree with just about everything said there (probably the only thing I agree with is the comment about Porsche's target market). Porsche's have consistently proven to be durable over time - the new cars are no exception.
More over, none of that has anything to do with the case in point here - the car was very obviously abused badly. It also reiterates the importance of a PPI for anyone buying a car like this.
More over, none of that has anything to do with the case in point here - the car was very obviously abused badly. It also reiterates the importance of a PPI for anyone buying a car like this.
the rotors went bad because apparently the brake pads for Porsches are good until there's about 25% left, after that there's this really hard material before it gets to the metal.. well that part is what messes the rotors up.. apparently BMW's have this too..
08-18-2006, 03:14 PM
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Well-put and I think entirely accurate.
The one flaw in their thinking is that they're gambling that people will "take the plunge" for a new/CPO vehicle (to the tune of many tens of thousands of dollars) as their first experience with the marquee. The watercooled models (928s excepted) and Boxsters were originally intended to be "entry level" cars that would be somewhat more affordable and carry the reputation of the brand by "wowing" used-car buyers years down the road, enticing them to maybe step up and make that eventual big-dollar 911 purchase from their local dealership. . .
Since they're shortening the design lifespan of the cars, it seems they're throwing future sales away along with it.
I used to say "some day I'll buy a new 911" based on how great my 944 is built. Based on what I've read about all the failures of the Boxsters and the unwillingness of Porsche to stand behind them, I'd have to say I'm reluctant to feel so enthusiastic about ever spending $100k of my hard-earned money on the marquee. . .
The one flaw in their thinking is that they're gambling that people will "take the plunge" for a new/CPO vehicle (to the tune of many tens of thousands of dollars) as their first experience with the marquee. The watercooled models (928s excepted) and Boxsters were originally intended to be "entry level" cars that would be somewhat more affordable and carry the reputation of the brand by "wowing" used-car buyers years down the road, enticing them to maybe step up and make that eventual big-dollar 911 purchase from their local dealership. . .
Since they're shortening the design lifespan of the cars, it seems they're throwing future sales away along with it.
I used to say "some day I'll buy a new 911" based on how great my 944 is built. Based on what I've read about all the failures of the Boxsters and the unwillingness of Porsche to stand behind them, I'd have to say I'm reluctant to feel so enthusiastic about ever spending $100k of my hard-earned money on the marquee. . .
08-18-2006, 03:18 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by J-RAD
I find this to be an incredibly ironic statement from a 928 owner.
There are a lot of unsubstantiated and speculative claims in your post. Let's just say, we'll agree to disagree.
Note: the Boxster S is the third Porsche I've owned over the last 10 - 15 years (944T and 911) and it is by far the best one that I've owned, although the 911 was pretty bulletproof too.
There are a lot of unsubstantiated and speculative claims in your post. Let's just say, we'll agree to disagree.
Note: the Boxster S is the third Porsche I've owned over the last 10 - 15 years (944T and 911) and it is by far the best one that I've owned, although the 911 was pretty bulletproof too.
Many of my claims are unsubstantiated as they were offered as opinion rather than fact(except where my personal experience comes into play).
Having driven 944s I'm sure you've heard about the perceived achilles heal of the early watercoolers known as the timing belt. Despite the hype, the system is very reliable if care is taken to change the belt and associated hardware at regular intervals. Many failures of cars with 50k or 60k miles could be traced to a failure of an owner to perform regular maintenance.
Take the 986/996 generation of cars. Do you find it odd that the failures are happening on low mileage cars? The boxster forum is argueably one of the smallest on Rlist wheras the 928 forum is substantially larger. All things being equal, would one expect a larger amount of engine failures from the 928 forum. Catastrophic failures of the earlier cars could be traced to many years of abuse or just high mileage wear and there still aren't many of them. Teardowns of 996/986 motors that have failed show that the engineering/manufacturing/quality control itself is flawed. Is there any other way to explain such a large number of failures on a forum with such a small % of owners represented?
I cringe when someone states to a prospective buyer that if the car is over 50k with the original motor, it's probably OK.
Why did I get the boxster? The wife feels that the 928s are too potent for her to handle yet she wanted a performance car of her own. She used to like driving my 944 but wanted something a bit less dated. She also wanted a ragtop for the summer. I picked up a boxster for her and she fell in love with it. I have no illusions of the car becoming a family heirloom and told the wife that we'll maintain it properly and if it dies, she'll make the decision whether to fix it or get something else.
The fact of the matter is I know what to expect from the car and that is some fun spirited driving until it fails. I won't even be pissed should the motor blow tomorrow as I bought the car knowing full well that this is the nature of the beast. Do I spend every waking hour worrying that the motor will blow? No, I can afford another one. Besides, the car has 50k+ miles so I probably dodged the bullet.
BTW: There's no problem with disagreeing, I'm stating my views not trying to make you agree with them. This topic has been discussed here and elsewhere ad nausem, no one's going to cause a mass epiphany with their opinions
Last edited by Dave Howerdel; 08-18-2006 at 03:50 PM.
08-18-2006, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Howerdel
Everyone knows that Porsche approached the Japanese to help them sell cars. Do people really think the Japanese only helped them with marketing strategy and not other important things such as returns on investment through expected product lifespan and repair costs. Some could even say that flaws in certain blocks may have been "Introduced" through an overzealous desire to compromise long term reliability.
I will refrain from commenting on the speculation that "flaws in certain blocks may have been "Introduced" through an overzealous desire to compromise long term reliability".
08-18-2006, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 85percent
the rotors went bad because apparently the brake pads for Porsches are good until there's about 25% left, after that there's this really hard material before it gets to the metal.. well that part is what messes the rotors up.. apparently BMW's have this too..
08-18-2006, 05:08 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Gary Gaukler
Can you substantiate this? Porsche had japanese consultants to help them with material flow and assembly processes (TPS, Kanban, etc). I have never heard that they hired japanese consultants to help with marketing-related issues.
I will refrain from commenting on the speculation that "flaws in certain blocks may have been "Introduced" through an overzealous desire to compromise long term reliability".
I will refrain from commenting on the speculation that "flaws in certain blocks may have been "Introduced" through an overzealous desire to compromise long term reliability".
Opinions are based on perceptions and I have the pcars that I want. I like to tinker on them on the weekends and make improvements or upgrade to more efficient parts as they become available. I don't consider having to change a motor on a 30k, 5yr old, out of warranty, car to be the same thing. But like I said, the boxster was cheap enough where replacing the engine or writing it off is not that big a deal.
If I had paid $30k for it, it would be a different story. The only way I'd buy a new pcar is if I planned on trading it after the warranty was up. I like to keep my cars many years and prefer to tinker with them rather than trade'em for the latest model. This, in my opinion is out of the question considering what I perceive as reliability issues with cars Porsche's been offering since the late 90s.
I am a car guy who has the means to purchase anything Porsche has to offer, yet, I do not fit into what Porsche calls it's current customer base. I did 15yrs ago, but not today.